LTE Upgrade, Did YOU Do It?

[silverp85+]

Not quite. The "gps chips"don't provice the maps and navigation data. The only thing the "gps chips" provide to you is your location (latitude, longitude, altitude, and time). That's it. No maps, no data, etc. All the rest of that information is provided over the 3G/LTE connection. So yes, the LTE connection will provide much faster map loading from Google. Also, there's a difference -- what will stop working after 4 years (if you don't sign up for an LTE subscription) are the other customer services -- music streaming, web browser, etc... all non-essentials for car operation. If you have navigation, I'm pretty sure the maps will be included and not part of the customer subscription. Tesla will always need some level of cellular access to the car. That won't go away if you don't pay for access. You're just paying for "extra" access.

Makes sense. thanks!

 

[tanner]

So I go in for my upgrade on Monday - i.e. it's not too late to pull out. Anyone have any regrets updating (basically just having it not be worth the $500)?

 

[bhzmark]

There are various Tune In podcasts that tell me something like "high bandwidth required". Can anyone verify if the LTE upgrade allows those to be be played?

I still get that msg with lte on some podcasts. It's annoying.

 

[sillydriver]

I often drive 7 miles from my farm to Middleburg, the nearest town. I have LTE reception at the farm, and there is reception in Middleburg, but a big dropout down to 3G in between. I got the LTE upgrade and found it switches modes between LTE and 3G with long lags, so it spends a lot of time in the wrong mode. The result is that I almost cannot use slacker driving to town, where I could before. So for me, the upgrade was a huge mistake which has made internet data almost useless, but that's because I live in fringe area. Driving nearer to Washington DC it works fine. So my advice is to make sure you have adequate service where you live.

I should add that despite the problems I mentioned above, connecting with the iPhone app works much better now. By luck I tend to park in areas of good LTE coverage, including my home. It's the dropouts I get driving around the hilly Virginia piedmont that really throw the thing off and leave it hunting for a signal for long periods.

So I go in for my upgrade on Monday - i.e. it's not too late to pull out. Anyone have any regrets updating (basically just having it not be worth the $500)?

Just to emphasize what I said earlier, you should make sure you usually drive in an area with consistent LTE coverage. An area with patchy LTE coverage is a disaster for their setup. This was just hammered home to me these last few days because Tesla give me an MS loaner with 3G while my car was in the shop. I could use slacker again while I had the loaner, which I cannot around here in my car. The LTE upgrade does aid my using the app to turn on climate control in my garage in the morning, but that's because my house is in a good LTE reception area while its surroundings are not.

The problem I've described might be fixable at some point by a modem firmware upgrade from Tesla (my iPhone has no such problem) but the car's poor handling of transitions between LTE and 3G might be the result of Tesla's channeling data through their VPN, where the pipe has to be closed and reestablished when switching bands, so they avoid switching as much as possible. In that case the problem would be hard to fix, but that's just my guess of the cause.

 

[tanner]

Just to emphasize what I said earlier, you should make sure you usually drive in an area with consistent LTE coverage. An area with patchy LTE coverage is a disaster for their setup. This was just hammered home to me these last few days because Tesla give me an MS loaner with 3G while my car was in the shop. I could use slacker again while I had the loaner, which I cannot around here in my car. The LTE upgrade does aid my using the app to turn on climate control in my garage in the morning, but that's because my house is in a good LTE reception area while its surroundings are not.

The problem I've described might be fixable at some point by a modem firmware upgrade from Tesla (my iPhone has no such problem) but the car's poor handling of transitions between LTE and 3G might be the result of Tesla's channeling data through their VPN, where the pipe has to be closed and reestablished when switching bands, so they avoid switching as much as possible. In that case the problem would be hard to fix, but that's just my guess of the cause.

you would think there would be a simple solution - it's not supposed to be that difficult.

 

[islandbayy]

My personal opinion, NOT WORTH THE UPGRADE! The limitations with the car, arn't the internet speed, the limitation is the slow browser and hardware On the car.

Here is my 3G Test. Nothing this car currently does, barring downloading of a new firmware update, which happens in the background when the car is idle anyways, can come close to using the full connection speed.

 

[tanner]

My personal opinion, NOT WORTH THE UPGRADE! The limitations with the car, arn't the internet speed, the limitation is the slow browser and hardware On the car.

Here is my 3G Test. Nothing this car currently does, barring downloading of a new firmware update, which happens in the background when the car is idle anyways, can come close to using the full connection speed.

Right, but it supposedly increases maps load speed.

 

[islandbayy]

And the Placebo's I take decrease my chances of Cancer ;-)

 

[tanner]

And the Placebo's I take decrease my chances of Cancer ;-)

Um.... You do know the difference between LTE and 3G, right? Plus there's nothing special about 5Mbps down on 3G, you can get that all day, any day if you have full bars and the network isn't congested. You seem to live in a rather isolated area, which is probably why you have semi-decent download speeds. The upload is likely unrestricted due to a deal between Tesla and AT&T, considering Tesla NEEDS fast speeds to pull data on the car.

 

[islandbayy]

Um.... You do know the difference between LTE and 3G, right? Plus there's nothing special about 5Mbps down on 3G, you can get that all day, any day if you have full bars and the network isn't congested. You seem to live in a rather isolated area, which is probably why you have semi-decent download speeds. The upload is likely unrestricted due to a deal between Tesla and AT&T, considering Tesla NEEDS fast speeds to pull data on the car.

Yes, I know the difference. And yet, I can't see a reason to justify paying for the upgrade from 3g to LTE, when nothing on the car can make use of the LTE Speeds. I have LTE phones, and the congestion in the metro area here during the day time reduces the LTE speeds to 3g speed levels anyways. At this time, their is nothing on this car that the driver could make use of the faster speeds for. Unless Tesla starts allowing Video Playback, all it is is a future-proofing for when 3g networks start to go dark. That is a long ways away, and by then, they will have the retrofit for 5g (Hopefully).

I am not in a Isolated area. I'm in Milwaukee, WI. Largest city in Wisconsin. Speed tests were done in Chicago for the video, and I can re-create those speeds almost any time of the day within city limits, Accept for the upload, about 3 months back, I noticed upload speeds took a sharp drop, almost like one day upload was great, next day and every day since it stunk. It was about when I got Firmware 7. Possibly a speed restriction? Who knows, but my uploads seem to top out at about 4-5mbit now, and never higher. Download speeds have remained consistent.

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Um.... You do know the difference between LTE and 3G, right? Plus there's nothing special about 5Mbps down on 3G, you can get that all day, any day if you have full bars and the network isn't congested. You seem to live in a rather isolated area, which is probably why you have semi-decent download speeds. The upload is likely unrestricted due to a deal between Tesla and AT&T, considering Tesla NEEDS fast speeds to pull data on the car.

And mentioning Placebo, my (Sarcasm) was ment to say, since the car can't make use of the faster speeds, once mind grasps at whatever it can to try to justify the cost of the upgrade. In this case, it seems that people think the maps load faster. I have driven (and had as a loaner) almost every possible version of the Model S. I have gotten to use both 3g (on mine) and LTE (on loaners), I noticed no difference in map speeds, browser load speeds, slacker, tune in etc...

 

[tanner]

Yes, I know the difference. And yet, I can't see a reason to justify paying for the upgrade from 3g to LTE, when nothing on the car can make use of the LTE Speeds. I have LTE phones, and the congestion in the metro area here during the day time reduces the LTE speeds to 3g speed levels anyways. At this time, their is nothing on this car that the driver could make use of the faster speeds for. Unless Tesla starts allowing Video Playback, all it is is a future-proofing for when 3g networks start to go dark. That is a long ways away, and by then, they will have the retrofit for 5g (Hopefully).

I am not in a Isolated area. I'm in Milwaukee, WI. Largest city in Wisconsin. Speed tests were done in Chicago for the video, and I can re-create those speeds almost any time of the day within city limits, Accept for the upload, about 3 months back, I noticed upload speeds took a sharp drop, almost like one day upload was great, next day and every day since it stunk. It was about when I got Firmware 7. Possibly a speed restriction? Who knows, but my uploads seem to top out at about 4-5mbit now, and never higher. Download speeds have remained consistent.

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And mentioning Placebo, my (Sarcasm) was ment to say, since the car can't make use of the faster speeds, once mind grasps at whatever it can to try to justify the cost of the upgrade. In this case, it seems that people think the maps load faster. I have driven (and had as a loaner) almost every possible version of the Model S. I have gotten to use both 3g (on mine) and LTE (on loaners), I noticed no difference in map speeds, browser load speeds, slacker, tune in etc...

Maps would benefit the most... And sorry, but that's extremely isolated compared to SoCal - population of Milwaukee, WI is 599,000, population of LA is 10,000,000.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Most people are reporting much faster map loading, so I don't think that's a placebo effect.

My map loading on 3G is glacially slow. I can see each block drawn in steps, and then each layer drawn on top of that.. and then lastly roads and traffic.

I'm getting the LTE retrofit next month before a long trip, and I'm sure I'll see a big difference. And if the maps are just as equally glacial as they are now, I will report back. In fact, I think I'll take a before/after video of the maps from some different locations.

 

[tanner]

Most people are reporting much faster map loading, so I don't think that's a placebo effect.

My map loading on 3G is glacially slow. I can see each block drawn in steps, and then each layer drawn on top of that.. and then lastly roads and traffic.

I'm getting the LTE retrofit next month before a long trip, and I'm sure I'll see a big difference. And if the maps are just as equally glacial as they are now, I will report back. In fact, I think I'll take a before/after video of the maps from some different locations.

You and me both, dude... The one thing that raises concern is the fact that a console reboot actually goes a long way to improving that.

 

[islandbayy]

Maps would benefit the most... And sorry, but that's extremely isolated compared to SoCal - population of Milwaukee, WI is 599,000, population of LA is 10,000,000.

LA=503 sq miles.
Mke=97 sq miles.

So a little more then 1/2 the density of LA per square mile.


Must also remember, not the entire country is So Cal. And in places like LA, more towers, micro-towers, and what not. Maps May benefit the most, but compared to cost, it is still a very negligible benefit.
And, if enough users of the network can cause 3g to slow down, don't you think 4g is going to slowdown as well? Same towers, same back-haul feed. If the backhaul is saturated due to over-subscription, the backhaul is saturated due to over-subscription. If the best speed you can get is 5mbit, thats all your going to get, 5mbit. 5mbit on 3g, or 5mbit on LTE. And considering most phones and devices on the network are already going to be 4g (most people don't use a phone for more then 2 years before getting a newer replacement, granted, 3g devices are still out and about, just in declining numbers), it's more likely the 4g spectrum is going to get saturated before the 3g. And usually, 3g is going to be on the lower frequencies, for better penetration anyways.

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Most people are reporting much faster map loading, so I don't think that's a placebo effect.

My map loading on 3G is glacially slow. I can see each block drawn in steps, and then each layer drawn on top of that.. and then lastly roads and traffic.

I'm getting the LTE retrofit next month before a long trip, and I'm sure I'll see a big difference. And if the maps are just as equally glacial as they are now, I will report back. In fact, I think I'll take a before/after video of the maps from some different locations.

Please do a before/after.
I'm just reporting my experiences having driven just about every version and configuration of this car. In my experiences in multiple instances, I could at no time notice a map loading difference. I'll also be able to report with my new 90D coming in a few weeks compared to my early production S. Only when I'm out in the middle of nowhere, do I ever get the slow block loading type of thing. And usually, after a center screen reboot, they go back to instant loading.

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You and me both, dude... The one thing that raises concern is the fact that a console reboot actually goes a long way to improving that.

Hah, same thought, I typed it before it even saw your post. Yes, it is a good concern. Almost as if the car isn't clearing it's cache, and finally deleting things as the cache is filled.

In fact, I do believe I noticed this issue start wayyy back, around the early 5.xxx firmwares when Tesla started having the maps pre-fetch/save something like 25 or 50 mile radius at current zoom level???? I might be a bit off on this though.

 

[tanner]

LA=503 sq miles.
Mke=97 sq miles.

So a little more then 1/2 the density of LA per square mile.


Must also remember, not the entire country is So Cal. And in places like LA, more towers, micro-towers, and what not. Maps May benefit the most, but compared to cost, it is still a very negligible benefit.
And, if enough users of the network can cause 3g to slow down, don't you think 4g is going to slowdown as well? Same towers, same back-haul feed. If the backhaul is saturated due to over-subscription, the backhaul is saturated due to over-subscription. If the best speed you can get is 5mbit, thats all your going to get, 5mbit. 5mbit on 3g, or 5mbit on LTE. And considering most phones and devices on the network are already going to be 4g (most people don't use a phone for more then 2 years before getting a newer replacement, granted, 3g devices are still out and about, just in declining numbers), it's more likely the 4g spectrum is going to get saturated before the 3g. And usually, 3g is going to be on the lower frequencies, for better penetration anyways.

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Please do a before/after.
I'm just reporting my experiences having driven just about every version and configuration of this car. In my experiences in multiple instances, I could at no time notice a map loading difference. I'll also be able to report with my new 90D coming in a few weeks compared to my early production S. Only when I'm out in the middle of nowhere, do I ever get the slow block loading type of thing. And usually, after a center screen reboot, they go back to instant loading.

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Hah, same thought, I typed it before it even saw your post. Yes, it is a good concern. Almost as if the car isn't clearing it's cache, and finally deleting things as the cache is filled.

In fact, I do believe I noticed this issue start wayyy back, around the early 5.xxx firmwares when Tesla started having the maps pre-fetch/save something like 25 or 50 mile radius at current zoom level???? I might be a bit off on this though.

I'm not going to look up/calculate specifics, but even so, 1/2 density is a rather significant difference. Also, probably right on the more towers part (impossible to accurately compare between the two - there are too many factors at play). Also, different towers should be used between 3G and LTE, but the same tower site can be upgraded to support LTE (they operate on a completely different spectrum). Yes, congestion affects both 3G and LTE, though the latter will still outperform the former under the same traffic levels.

I may may just pull the trigger and do it, while I probably won't get a ROI when I go to sell it at some point, it will definitely aid in increasing buyer interest. LTE P85 > 3G P85 when it comes time to sell.

Yeah, something is up, even before 7.x, it was NEVER this bad!!!

oh, what site did you use for that speed test? I wanna run some.

 

[jerry33]

Most people are reporting much faster map loading, so I don't think that's a placebo effect.

I noticed quite a difference in map loading speed. I hardly ever use the browser so about all I can say is that it loads the Peacemaker Package faster.

 

[silverp85+]

does the upgrade help with music pausing?

does anyone have a download speed test for the upgrade?

 

[miamibeacher]

does the upgrade help with music pausing?

does anyone have a download speed test for the upgrade?

My service center just finished. Here is the result.

 

[Haggy]

Can you use your mobile phone as a hot spot and pair via wifi instead of the upgrade? Just curious if anyone has done this instead?

I've done it in the past and that was one of the things that kept me from getting the upgrade. I did benchmarks with 3G as well as benchmarks when using my phone as hot spot. I didn't see any real world improvement. In order to eliminate the phone as the source of the bottleneck, I did benchmarks with WiFi in my garage and still saw no significant improvement, but got good benchmarks on my phone with WiFi. I asked in other places if anybody had actual benchmarks, but didn't see any until recently in this thread a few minutes ago. Ideally, I should have been able to use WiFi instead of 3G since I have the phone with me anyway, and that should have sped things up since my phone has LTE. It should have made for a good long term solution if Tesla ever starts charging for data, since I will have an LTE connection anyway.

So as of now, there's an actual benchmark showing a big improvement with LTE but I still have no clue why WiFi is so slow, even with a very strong connection. The benchmark rules out the placebo effect and I've never gotten anything close to that with 3G.

 

[islandbayy]

here is my car on 3g. Chicago at 5:30pm. Results reproducible.