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M3P VS BMW I4 M50
- Thread starter Futur3EV
- Start date
rincewind
Member
On the subject of frameless windows, I've driven a Model S which also has them and there is no wind noise. Conclusion is the Model 3 seal and frame design is not as good.
Passed all over my bonfire
. On one of previous cars (a 911), you could adjust the angle of the glass to get a better seal. I've not looked on these cars, but I have noticed a small dent about 2 inches away from the pillar on the door seal. It's on both sides so I assume it's meant to be there, but that's probably not going to help at all.That depends on which S and which 3. My 2021 3 has less wind noise than my 2013 S, my 3 is actually pretty good in that regard, nothing I could complain about. Some/many like-priced cars are quieter still but my 3 is probably the lowest wind noise level of any car I've owned.
Tesla lowered S wind noise levels over the years though. By the P100D/100D era they got pretty quiet for highway cruising, quieter than my 3. But the S of that era feels like a big heavy tank around turns, 3 is way more fun, even an older noisier P85+ is more fun.
Thank you for that writeup @rincewind! Very helpful, especially with test drives not available yet here in the US. I can already tell the M3P matches my preferences more than the i4 M50. The BMW does sound like a nice EV for someone that cares more about ultimate refinement than driving dynamics though, and it's clearly fast too. Shame about feeling its weight and the awkward power delivery but I guess you can't have it all. At least not for under $100k.
If you ever test it again and have a chance to take some nice turns with the nannies off or dialed down I'd love to hear your impressions. Though it sounds like that might be a bit more dangerous in an unfamiliar i4 than Model 3 due to the traction issues.
M3P traction control definitely limits power coming out of turns too in normal driving mode, but the i4 M50 sounds worse if it's really based on steering angle and not actual wheel slip, that sounds pretty obnoxious actually. Of course Track Mode fixes that issue in the M3P when I want to drive it hard, and the slider for picking just how much leeway I want is nice.
If the i4 M50 felt as nimble as the M3P I might have some regrets...though here in the US the supercharger network would keep me with Tesla anyways, public DCFC is still well behind here. (Already went through that dilemma with Polestar 2 Performance vs M3P. Very glad I ended up with the M3P though, after getting to know it better I actually prefer how it drives even aside from the range and charging advantages. Just wish Tesla included a suspension/dampers as good as those Öhlins from the factory.)
Tesla lowered S wind noise levels over the years though. By the P100D/100D era they got pretty quiet for highway cruising, quieter than my 3. But the S of that era feels like a big heavy tank around turns, 3 is way more fun, even an older noisier P85+ is more fun.
Thank you for that writeup @rincewind! Very helpful, especially with test drives not available yet here in the US. I can already tell the M3P matches my preferences more than the i4 M50. The BMW does sound like a nice EV for someone that cares more about ultimate refinement than driving dynamics though, and it's clearly fast too. Shame about feeling its weight and the awkward power delivery but I guess you can't have it all. At least not for under $100k.
If you ever test it again and have a chance to take some nice turns with the nannies off or dialed down I'd love to hear your impressions. Though it sounds like that might be a bit more dangerous in an unfamiliar i4 than Model 3 due to the traction issues.
M3P traction control definitely limits power coming out of turns too in normal driving mode, but the i4 M50 sounds worse if it's really based on steering angle and not actual wheel slip, that sounds pretty obnoxious actually. Of course Track Mode fixes that issue in the M3P when I want to drive it hard, and the slider for picking just how much leeway I want is nice.
If the i4 M50 felt as nimble as the M3P I might have some regrets...though here in the US the supercharger network would keep me with Tesla anyways, public DCFC is still well behind here. (Already went through that dilemma with Polestar 2 Performance vs M3P. Very glad I ended up with the M3P though, after getting to know it better I actually prefer how it drives even aside from the range and charging advantages. Just wish Tesla included a suspension/dampers as good as those Öhlins from the factory.)
rincewind
Member
It doesn't, it feels much bigger and a bit ponderous, struggles to hide that 2290kg weight - that's 400 ish more than the M3P and it shows. You may find this very interesting. More videos still to come too.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
FWIW that was an interesting video, but if you don't have the time to watch let me sum up- Tesla has industry leading traction control, and BMW sucks at it.
Also the BMW i4 M50 is embarrassingly slow compared to a performance Model 3 (or even a boosted LR Model 3, given the video shows the non boosted LR is about even to 30 with the BMW)
Also the BMW i4 M50 is embarrassingly slow compared to a performance Model 3 (or even a boosted LR Model 3, given the video shows the non boosted LR is about even to 30 with the BMW)
heavyD
Member
Embarrassingly slow? It seems like they are fairly even in a straight line until higher speeds where the M50 pulls away.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
The P was 25% quicker 0-30.
And the public 0-60 numbers appear to support a similar difference....~3 vs 3.8.... 1/4 numbers are closer but still not in the BMWs favor... (~11.9 to ~11.5)
So- yes embarrassingly slow at least to 120 mph or so. Nobody really cars about more than that in a straight line unless they're on the autobahn.
A look at the weight covers one reason why, and the video shows the launch issues the BMW has too.
The Carwow thing was discussed a couple pages ago- it's not terribly useful as (and it even mentions this in the first run) it's dependent on driver reaction times instead of actually using calibrated measurements.
And the public 0-60 numbers appear to support a similar difference....~3 vs 3.8.... 1/4 numbers are closer but still not in the BMWs favor... (~11.9 to ~11.5)
So- yes embarrassingly slow at least to 120 mph or so. Nobody really cars about more than that in a straight line unless they're on the autobahn.
A look at the weight covers one reason why, and the video shows the launch issues the BMW has too.
The Carwow thing was discussed a couple pages ago- it's not terribly useful as (and it even mentions this in the first run) it's dependent on driver reaction times instead of actually using calibrated measurements.
heavyD
Member
I guess we have different opinions of what represents embarrassing. I think it's noteworthy that BMW motors don't run out of steam early like most other EV's including Teslas.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
If you find north of 120 mph "early" your perspective is... not common.
And of course doesn't apply to the newest Model S either.
heavyD
Member
Well of course it will not be common in a forum full of Tesla fanboys that live their lives a 1/4 mile at a time. As fast as the M3P does the 1/4 mile, the trap speeds are not very impressive. This is where there is room for improvement in the future whether it be from Tesla and/or other automakers.
The M3 xDrive for example is faster than an M3P in every performance metric as ICE vehicles are starting to close the gap. In the future I expect EV's will close the gap and hold acceleration longer and surpass ICE which will eventually hit the wall.
The Quickest Cars, Trucks, and SUVs of 2021 That We Tested
Of the 220 production vehicles we piloted down drag strips this year, these 15 logged the quickest 0–60 mph times.
Bench racing aside EV's still offer far superior acceleration on the street which is what most people will notice but there's still room for improvement.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Or any normal human who spends 99.99% of their time on public roads other than the autobahn.
But sure, namecall, that's a strong argument.
heavyD
Member
It's not name calling. It's the reality of all automotive forums that are all full of inherent bias (ever been on a Ford forum for example?). It's the ultimate argument.
When any production BEV under $100k can lap my local track faster than my M3P I might take a look at it.
The i4 M50 is certainly not going to pose a threat.
The i4 M50 is certainly not going to pose a threat.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
You mean this?
2022 BMW M3 Competition xDrive at Lightning Lap 2022
Near-supercar numbers, and an advantage because of all-wheel drive.
www.caranddriver.com
The version they tested cost $104,595..... a base/stripped one is about $90,000.
I sure HOPE it can beat a $59,000 Tesla.
The fact it barely does so (Motortrend cites a 2.98 for the BMW.... Dragtimes has posted a 2.99) is, once again, pretty embarrassing for BMW.
If we're not allowed to consider price I'll go grab a Plaid Model S and wipe the floor up and down with anything BMW ever made.
uh...
MagnusMako
Member
Most of us and those on the road, don't live their lives past 120, regardless of forum - everyone drives the same roads. Those speeds become relevant for the drag strip or those who track their cars on certain tracks, or if you're racing in "Mexico". So yes there's a distinction that will matter to different crowds, but I don't think it has anything to do with fanboys of Tesla or not.
Like it or not, 0-60 far more useful than 60-130mph for most people. The M3P is no slouch to about 110mph then it really begins to fade and i've hit those numbers but then realize i'm going too fast and slow down. Unless you are in Germany, I'd bet the M3P is the faster daily in most situations and given the price difference, don't think I would choose the M50 even though its a nice car. Fully loaded, those things are getting near Model S LR prices which would completely blow up that car at any speed with a better interior.
MagnusMako
Member
Not sure if you mis-read me or not, but I think we are in agreeance. I was just saying they are different appeals depending on what care about most. I know the M3P quite well as mine is one, and I have taken it well past those numbers before. In 3+ years of ownership, I've yet to be overtaken by any car other than some heavily modified ones and those were only when starting at 60. The M50 is a great effort by BMW, but the cost is not competitive enough much less the performance to be a daily driver on the same level. The interior is subjective but I think most people who get into a Tesla don't yearn so much for the exuberance of a BMW or the like and tend to be accustomed to the minimalism. The 3 is still the king of value, but I'm open - or actually encouraged to see other manufacturers attempt to match or surpass Tesla.
I do think the acceleration is slower once at 60, but whether that's due to the reduced kick you get as aerodynamics come into play so everything gets slower I'm not sure. Might have to see if there's a YouTube video of 60+.
