M3P- . What is it, how to order it, etc.

[StealthP3D]

But you keep having no evidence to support this claim- and a lot of evidence that contradicts it, and literally your only response is to repeat Elons pre-production tweet that doesn't address the PN issue numerous people have tried explaining to you.

Which do you think Tesla would prefer:

A system where their own manufacturing, supply chain, and repair chain, work accurately and efficently and don't make easy to avoid mistakes?

A system where none of that is true, MFG has added complexity since they can't rely on PNs for BOMs, supply chain and repair chain has added complexity for the same reason and ALSO because they can't trust the stamped PN on the shelf.... but it's ok because otherwise people who look in a parts catalog that didn't even exist when they made this decision might get annoyed if they knew what to look for?


That first one-the one from a sane world- if there was any actual difference they'd use different PNs. Which they don't.

You appear to go with door #2 though.

This is my last post on this point unless you have something more convincing than your "same part number" argument.

It might help you understand why Tesla wants to bin the performance of the Silicon Carbide once they are coupled to the drive motor if you do a little research on gate resistance and how it can vary from device to device. This gate resistance causes heat which can cause the devices to fail if over-driven. And it's most likely to happen at high motor speeds at high power levels, something the Performance Model 3 is more likely to experience because it's much more likely to be seen at a racetrack where this could be an issue. Tesla needs these parts to be absolutely reliable which entails not over driving them. And they are not all the same. Binning makes excellent business sense.

Please don't repeat your "same part number" argument again. IMO, it's no argument at all.

 

[StealthP3D]

And as much as one guy on YouTube showed the motors are labelled the same was there any evidence the inverters are the same part? I'd expect them to have more transistors in them to handle the much higher peak current.

No, they are constructed identically, it's just that each individual SiC MOSFETs have varying characteristics from the chipmaker. Some are better than others, it's just a fact of the current state of the art. And their performance is somewhat dependent upon variation in motors (which are a manufactured item which also varies). As do the solder joints, etc. These devices carry impressive amounts of current and switch at frequencies that would make your head spin. That's why they test them as a complete drive unit. They require absolute reliability.

 

[Knightshade]

This is my last post on this point unless you have something more convincing than your "same part number" argument.

Since mine is an actual fact it seems a lot more convincing than your "stuff you just made up with 0 evidence and contrary to sane MFG practice at every other company in the world" argument

It might help you understand why Tesla wants to bin the performance of the Silicon Carbide once they are coupled to the drive motor if you do a little research on gate resistance and how it can vary from device to device.

Probably not- because as I mention lots of other companies BIN things by performance- and 100% of them use differnt PNs to indicate parts that come out of the binning process with significantly different results.

The fact Tesla does NOT use different PNs suggests they do not get significantly different results.

Please don't repeat your "same part number" argument again. IMO, it's no argument at all.

Again though- you keep repeating your entirely fictional one that disputes all known and documented facts-and makes MFG, supply chain, and repair chain, vastly more complex and error prone for no real benefit which is even less of an argument, so....

 

[Rachmaninov]

I just ordered a P3 “stealth”. It’s already built and being transferred from a depot. Has anyone had this model custom built or have all of them been in stock cars?

I didn’t want to miss the opportunity if they are indeed limited for whatever reason.

 

[StealthP3D]

I just ordered a P3 “stealth”. It’s already built and being transferred from a depot. Has anyone had this model custom built or have all of them been in stock cars?

I didn’t want to miss the opportunity if they are indeed limited for whatever reason.

Even when you order them "custom" they still batch produce the different colors/configurations and just find a matching one to assign to you. So, none of them are really custom built for you. Tesla tries to keep the number of hardware options low to assist with this.

 

[jebinc]

“Get a room,” already (re, “Lover’s quarrel”).

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

To be clear, I am waiting for confirming evidence on this whole topic. It’s hard to know with 100% certainty what is happening, but I do think it is more likely all the drive units are the same.

Even then, all he actually said was they were lot sorting (binning)

For the record, he also said they receive double the burn-in. Which would make them different in some sense...better tested, at least. Whether that matters? Who knows.

The inverter is inside the DU. If they have the same DU PN (they do) then the inverter is the same part in both too.

Actually there are several pictures showing drive units with a given main part number being paired with a different inverter “stepping” number (no one here knows the significance of that number/letter). At any given point in time of manufacture, the inverter/drive unit pairing is the same, based on the pictures. However, in general, just because a drive unit has the same base part number, it may not have exactly the same inverter as another motor with the same drive unit number (however the stepping number will change).

It’s a fine point and I don’t think it counters your argument; just want to emphasize there is slow stepwise evolution of the drive units and inverters over time. What the differences are, I do not know, of course.

 

[FoverM]

I stopped by the Tesla delivery center in north ATL today on a whim to see if my P3 was there (my delivery was scheduled for Thursday). Their parking lot is completely filled with Model 3s! Two weeks ago it was empty. Now there are multiple 3s stacked into parking spaces, the lanes in the lot are stacked with cars, etc. Crazy. An employee said that most of the cars are waiting to be matched with buyers.

Most interesting thing I saw: tons of what I believe are Stealth Performance 3s. They had a "Dual Motor" badge underlined in red, non-red brakes, and what looked like 18" wheels (no aero covers).

Anyway, my P3 was there and I'm picking it up tomorrow. It hadn't been cleaned up yet but looked fine. I'll do a more detailed check tomorrow before cutting a check. But, wow, if you want a Stealth 3 in north ATL, order now and you'll probably get one soon.

 

[OCR1]

A few days ago I looked at a custom order M3P- and I thought I remembered the website having a note saying 18” wheels available upon request, or something similar to that wording.

Today the wording is gone. There is a picture of an 18” aero wheel under “Exterior Options” but you can’t select it. Has something changed in the last couple of days? Is Tesla still taking phone orders for an MP3- for $5K less than the MP3?

 

[Knightshade]

For the record, he also said they receive double the burn-in. Which would make them different in some sense...better tested, at least. Whether that matters? Who knows.

If I take 2 identical light bulbs, and I run one for 30 minutes and one for 60 before shipping, but both are putting out the same light, there's no difference between em other than I guess one had 30 more minutes taken off its useful life

Replace with pretty much any other product where there's any factory testing done where the only variable is time.

Actually there are several pictures showing drive units with a given main part number being paired with a different inverter “stepping” number (no one here knows the significance of that number/letter).

If nobody knows the significance how do you know it's related to the inverter?

Even then steppings of a main PN don't generally change the application of the part (see below)

At any given point in time of manufacture, the inverter/drive unit pairing is the same, based on the pictures. However, in general, just because a drive unit has the same base part number, it may not have exactly the same inverter as another motor with the same drive unit number (however the stepping number will change).

It’s a fine point and I don’t think it counters your argument; just want to emphasize there is slow stepwise evolution of the drive units and inverters over time. What the differences are, I do not know, of course.

Sure- this was the exact point I made earlier about how Tesla always changes the part number when there's any actual difference in steppings... like the RWD suspension which has had 3 different ones at least.

But in all 3 cases the part is still for a RWD car... and AWD cars get entirely different base PNs for parts that are different from it.

 

[Rachmaninov]

A few days ago I looked at a custom order M3P- and I thought I remembered the website having a note saying 18” wheels available upon request, or something similar to that wording.

Today the wording is gone. There is a picture of an 18” aero wheel under “Exterior Options” but you can’t select it. Has something changed in the last couple of days? Is Tesla still taking phone orders for an MP3- for $5K less than the MP3?

FYI -
I successfully ordered a M3P- this afternoon (Sunday 7/21). Please note that I had discussed ordering this specific model/options with my sales agent a few days ago.

The process required me to begin ordering the regular full version M3P online with my desired options. My sales agent then sent me an email with a link to run. The link he sent was for a particular VIN# car he had located at a local depot that matched my needs.

My agent walked me through the steps and was very helpful. After placing the buy order with his help, I received an order confirmation and VIN# in a few minutes

I specifically did not want the 20 inch wheels due to NJ road conditions. I really didn’t want to take the chance that the M3P- would not be available for any reason.

 

[jebinc]

FYI -
I successfully ordered a M3P- this afternoon (Sunday 7/21). Please note that I had discussed ordering this specific model/options with my sales agent a few days ago.

The process required me to begin ordering the regular full version M3P online with my desired options. My sales agent then sent me an email with a link to run. The link he sent was for a particular VIN# car he had located at a local depot that matched my needs.

My agent walked me through the steps and was very helpful. After placing the buy order with his help, I received an order confirmation and VIN# in a few minutes

I specifically did not want the 20 inch wheels due to NJ road conditions. I really didn’t want to take the chance that the M3P- would not be available for any reason.

Congrats! Please give us your thoughts and pictures after you get it. Thanks!

 

[raptor5244]

While we are in the weeds regarding the motors, inverters, etc. according to the parts manual it looks like there are different skus for the drive units? 630 vs. 840 MOSFET? Anyone know the differences?

https://epc.teslamotors.com/#/systemGroups/47412

 

[dmunjal]

I've just noticed that there are P3D- available with 19 inch wheels and nothing else. This pretty much proves that they were AWD LR at some point since the Performance models never could get the 19 inch wheels.

 

[Knightshade]

While we are in the weeds regarding the motors, inverters, etc. according to the parts manual it looks like there are different skus for the drive units? 630 vs. 840 MOSFET? Anyone know the differences?

https://epc.teslamotors.com/#/systemGroups/47412

View attachment 432551 View attachment 432550

Up through spring of 2019 every Model 3 as far as we can tell came with the PN 1120980 rear DU... RWD LR, MR, SR, AWD, P, didn't matter.

There's been 2 reports (total) of someone in Europe (one in Norway, one Sweden) of a 1120990 rear DU in the last couple months, but plenty still getting 980s otherwise.

AFAIK nobody has ever seen or gotten a 970 motor.


The 630/840 stuff appear to be REMAN (remanufactured) unit PNs and AFAIK nobody has ever gotten one in a car so far (as recently as June a member in the US had a DU replaced on an LR RWD and got the 980 as a replacement) so it's unclear if those new REMAN #s are in use at all

The front there's still only one "regular" PN and one reman one...it's interesting the reman is labeled IGBT just like the 970 rear motor that Tesla doesn't appear to have used in any cars.

 

[raptor5244]

Up through spring of 2019 every Model 3 as far as we can tell came with the PN 1120980 rear DU... RWD LR, MR, SR, AWD, P, didn't matter.

There's been 2 reports (total) of someone in Europe (one in Norway, one Sweden) of a 1120990 rear DU in the last couple months, but plenty still getting 980s otherwise.

AFAIK nobody has ever seen or gotten a 970 motor.


The 630/840 stuff appear to be REMAN (remanufactured) unit PNs and AFAIK nobody has ever gotten one in a car so far (as recently as June a member in the US had a DU replaced on an LR RWD and got the 980 as a replacement) so it's unclear if those new REMAN #s are in use at all

The front there's still only one "regular" PN and one reman one...it's interesting the reman is labeled IGBT just like the 970 rear motor that Tesla doesn't appear to have used in any cars.

What is IGBT?

 

[Knightshade]

What is IGBT?

IGBT and MOSFET are 2 different types of power controlling semiconductors...a few nerdy links on this-

What’s The Difference Between IGBTs And High-Voltage Power MOSFETs?

FET vs. BJT vs. IGBT: What’s the Right Choice for Your Power Stage Design?


All Model 3s to date have been delivered with SiC MOSFET inverters in the rear DU.

Speculation was the SR cars might use the IGBT part but so far that hasn't been the case AFAIK... (possibly like the cloth interior, plain white paint, etc they concluded it didn't make practical sense to actually have a different part in the end)

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

there's no difference between em other than I guess one had 30 more minutes taken off its useful life

In this context I guess it was referencing the burn in of the component semiconductor FETs. So it would improve reliability if they actually did/do what Elon claimed.

If nobody knows the significance how do you know it's related to the inverter?

The part catalog clearly shows the plate with the number I'm referring to is the backing plate of the inverter. (In addition, the square silver plate with the drive unit part number is bonded to this plate.) They have removed some information from the part catalog, but there are screen captures in the Motors thread.

https://epc.teslamotors.com/#/systemGroups/71051

So, seems like a reasonable assumption. It is hard to say what the significance of the stepping codes is, as I said. I can be certain of it being the inverter plate, but have no idea what is the significance of the code.

The 630/840 stuff appear to be REMAN

Yes these are remanufactured parts (RMN). The 840/630 are likely references to the maximum amps, at least that seems like a reasonably close assumption. More discussion on that in the other thread. Previously the rear inverter had an 810A limit (no longer visible in the part catalog). So it does not align exactly. But, I'm not sure that the 840/630 would show up stamped anywhere on the reman part. It is an interesting thing in any case...it's possible it is a reference to the max drive current. Or it could be something else.

Max power Performance Model 3 out of both drive units ~365kW. At 400V, that is 912A. Obviously the total input current would be higher. And hard to know how this all aligns since these are max current ratings (maybe), there are two motors, etc. But the 840 (P?) / 630 (AWD?) numbers are in the right ballpark at least. Could be coincidence or something else entirely.

Model 3 Motors on the Tesla Parts Catalog

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

The 630/840 stuff

I've added an updated speculative post to the Motors thread. I think the numbers are higher now due to 5% boost.

I think these numbers likely refer to peak inverter current since the numbers seem to align very well. If so, that is interesting that there is a 630A reman rear unit and an 840A reman rear unit... Yet there is no corresponding new unit for the 630A (presumably...unless they are binned???). There are historical screen captures in the other thread that can perhaps be pieced together to try to make sense of it all. All very speculative though.

My post in the other thread

 

[cybrwzrd]

Perhaps someday all the silicon carbide will spec out to allow every AWD to be converted to Performance. But silicon carbide power inverters in the Model 3 are rather new, leading edge tech. Currently, the power inverters have a variance in performance and Tesla only allows ones that test highest sigma to be designated Performance. After all, it's Tesla who has to cover warranty costs if these things burn up with too much current going through them. That could bankrupt Tesla.

Do you understand the nightmare for servicing AWD / P vehicles if both parts have the same part number but different tolerances? How, pray tell can a service center differentiate a P motor and a AWD motor with lower capability inverters without different part numbers?

How about the nightmare for the factory of having to store and pull to the line different motors with different specs with no part number to differentiate them?

This whole narrative is so laughable and, frankly; sounds like someone with zero manufacturing experience would say.