M3P - Who switched from a (true) sports car?

[dfwatt]

Doesnt really seem like a fair comparison. My comparison to the e90 steering feel was stock vs stock. How does the feel change if we step out of your "highly modified" model 3 into a "highly modified" BMW? let's dial back the koolaid a bit.

I'll back off on the Kool-Aid (whatever that means) if you dial back on the patronizing. Let's get some facts straight first. The E90 was regarded as the sun setting on BMW's legendary steering feel. Things have actually and only gotten worse since then at least in the eyes of many Automotive journalists who have test-driven recent M cars. That's fact number one. Fact number two is that even though ostensibly and on paper a nicely modified Model 3 looks like an unfair comparison with a stock current model BMW M3, it's not. The BMW M series has options for 30 series tires, forged wheels, and adjustable shocks (pretty sure those are all standard with the competition package AFAIR). So does mine. So actually the outfitting makes it more of a Level Playing Field and not less. The painful fact of the matter is that the Model 3 badly lacks an RS version that includes all of those items and that would more directly compete with the BMW M3. Consult any number of threads on this forum about just exactly this issue. Tesla has elected to spend its money on circuit boards which are military spec and very high quality and its other Innovative technology, and not on forged wheels, shocks, or adjustable suspensions. Even with the cost of those extra aftermarket options my car comes in significantly less than a reasonably optioned current-generation BMW M3. And that's before we get to the punitive cost of ownership for BMW M cars. So those are the facts - your notion that my comparison reflects a tilted playing field regrettably has basic and important facts against it.

Steer Me, Feel Me: Exploring Why BMWs No Longer Excel in Steering Feel

To air our grievances, we met with BMW driving-dynamics expert Johann Kistler, who illuminated the company's current practices. Read more at Car and Driver.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[drpheta]

Honestly, the stock M3P isn't too far off from a base BMW M3. I'm excited to see how simply adding a proper coilover system to the M3P transforms the ride.

I can see how @dfwatt can say his modded M3P is better than the M3.

 

[MarcPike]

Late to this party, sold my 2018 ZL1 2 weeks ago, and getting a 2021 M3P next Friday. Never drove the ZL1 over 160 ever, but got tired of 14mpg and want to do my part to help the planet.

 

[Snowball316]

Kept both... Tesla for weekdays and weekends. due to high gas prices here in California. only drive my S2000 on special occasions ands difficult to pay $4.95 per gal for 91 octane ($60) vs Tesla approximately $15 per "fill up"

 

[chamshaw]

Compared to our (long gone) 1988 Ferrari 420 in which I used to chase 911s until their back ends slipped out of line and the drivers quit, our 3LR is infinitely more fun.

 

[murf8292]

I switched from a BMW M4CS...kids make you do crazy things. I like the decision though, going to the gas station ALL the time was getting annoying, plus if you have driven an M4CS with lowering springs....its not the nicest on your back.

 

[Gellie]

Thinking of moving on from my 17 911 Cab S. ? Thoughts ?

 

[dfwatt]

Thinking of moving on from my 17 911 Cab S. ? Thoughts ?

Test drive is absolutely essential. Better yet if you can get one that somebody has set up properly with the MPP coilovers and other suspension tuning. You'll miss the open-air obviously but the driving experience is in my opinion better but you have to decide that for yourself

 

[Gellie]

Test drive is absolutely essential. Better yet if you can get one that somebody has set up properly with the MPP coilovers and other suspension tuning. You'll miss the open-air obviously but the driving experience is in my opinion better but you have to decide that for yourself

Trying to get a test drive in a M3P.

 

[Gellie]

Also test drove the Tycan. Not much of a performance difference from my wife’s MYLR.

 

[dfwatt]

Also test drove the Tycan. Not much of a performance difference from my wife’s MYLR.

Yeah I drove the Taycan last Spring IIRC here's my review : Test Drive Porsche Taycan Turbo S.

Definitely had more punch off the line but it's non-linear throttle, lack of one pedal driving and $200,000 price tag was a turn off.

 

[Gellie]

Yeah I drove the Taycan last Spring IIRC here's my review : Test Drive Porsche Taycan Turbo S.

Definitely had more punch off the line but it's non-linear throttle, lack of one pedal driving and $200,000 price tag was a turn off.

Great write up!

 

[gtechie]

The day I sold my AP1 S2000 was the day I gave Tesla my deposit for a RWD Model3. My EDD is 4-6 weeks from now... I can't wait!

 

[_Redshift_]

I'll back off on the Kool-Aid (whatever that means) if you dial back on the patronizing. Let's get some facts straight first. The E90 was regarded as the sun setting on BMW's legendary steering feel. Things have actually and only gotten worse since then at least in the eyes of many Automotive journalists who have test-driven recent M cars. That's fact number one. Fact number two is that even though ostensibly and on paper a nicely modified Model 3 looks like an unfair comparison with a stock current model BMW M3, it's not. The BMW M series has options for 30 series tires, forged wheels, and adjustable shocks (pretty sure those are all standard with the competition package AFAIR). So does mine. So actually the outfitting makes it more of a Level Playing Field and not less. The painful fact of the matter is that the Model 3 badly lacks an RS version that includes all of those items and that would more directly compete with the BMW M3. Consult any number of threads on this forum about just exactly this issue. Tesla has elected to spend its money on circuit boards which are military spec and very high quality and its other Innovative technology, and not on forged wheels, shocks, or adjustable suspensions. Even with the cost of those extra aftermarket options my car comes in significantly less than a reasonably optioned current-generation BMW M3. And that's before we get to the punitive cost of ownership for BMW M cars. So those are the facts - your notion that my comparison reflects a tilted playing field regrettably has basic and important facts against it.

Steer Me, Feel Me: Exploring Why BMWs No Longer Excel in Steering Feel

To air our grievances, we met with BMW driving-dynamics expert Johann Kistler, who illuminated the company's current practices. Read more at Car and Driver.

www.caranddriver.com

Well said.
I had an E46 325i with sport package and it was a blast to drive. Very neutral at the limits, great steering feel, great suspension that was sporty but not harsh…
That all ended with the introduction of the F platform BMWs, and the G did not make it any better.
E90 platform was still pretty good and it retained the BMW DNA. Now there is no such thing as a BMW DNA anymore.

That said, my 2018 RWD LR Model 3 is a blast to drive, though the stock suspension is a bit jittery. I’ve compensated by reducing the tire pressures to 38 PSI all around. I don’t think I’ll ever track my Model 3, but looking at all the posts here and suggestions on improving both the ride and handling (ride and handling compromise was one thing BMW USED to get right) I am tempted, I must say.

 

[dfwatt]

Well said.
I had an E46 325i with sport package and it was a blast to drive. Very neutral at the limits, great steering feel, great suspension that was sporty but not harsh…
That all ended with the introduction of the F platform BMWs, and the G did not make it any better.
E90 platform was still pretty good and it retained the BMW DNA. Now there is no such thing as a BMW DNA anymore.

That said, my 2018 RWD LR Model 3 is a blast to drive, though the stock suspension is a bit jittery. I’ve compensated by reducing the tire pressures to 38 PSI all around. I don’t think I’ll ever track my Model 3, but looking at all the posts here and suggestions on improving both the ride and handling (ride and handling compromise was one thing BMW USED to get right) I am tempted, I must say.

Except on road trips we run both of our cars which have super low profile tires at 38- 37 even. Does make a difference in New England and Florida roads where there are a lot of issues. Florida roads are better but still it makes a difference in Comfort at a modest cost in efficiency and since we have solar panels in Florida and unlimited free supercharging everywhere we're not too worried about mileage. On long trips however we suck it up and bump the PSI up to 40. You wouldn't think that two or three pounds would make a big difference since at that point is less than 10% but it really does

 

[firstkill]

I kept an ICE sports car due to weight and steering feel/chassis. I can’t wait till electric gets down to ICE car weights.

Took my model 3 performance out to my local canyon road. It’s plenty quick. Which the driving excitement comes from torque and speed. It allows me to be a sloppy driver…. The steering doesn’t have much feed back. Has body roll and under steer. But it’s very quick. It’s a great car for the $$$. I’m glad I did not get an ICE sedan. Knock on wood I got a well built one.

 

[dfwatt]

I kept an ICE sports car due to weight and steering feel/chassis. I can’t wait till electric gets down to ICE car weights.

Took my model 3 performance out to my local canyon road. It’s plenty quick. Which the driving excitement comes from torque and speed. It allows me to be a sloppy driver…. The steering doesn’t have much feed back. Has body roll and under steer. But it’s very quick. It’s a great car for the $$$. I’m glad I did not get an ICE sedan. Knock on wood I got a well built one.

Several things you can do ranging from fairly cheap to pretty expensive to mitigate some of the remaining weaknesses in the car's handling. In terms of steering feedback. First of all, I'm assuming you have the steering on either standard or sport? Secondly, check out Mountain Pass performance lower control arm bushing - MPP Model 3 Solid Front Lower Control Arm Bearings - Mountain Pass Performance. As Jesse at MPP says it makes the steering almost telepathic. Significantly more linearity, meaning more effort is required the harder the tires are working. No increased NVH at all that I can tell anyway. Secondly, consider if your budget allows or if you save towards its purchase price one of the MPP Sports coilover kits. They really transform the car. You can have somewhat improved ride and dramatically improved handling (with the MPP Model 3 Sports Coilovers AWD/Performance - Mountain Pass Performance set to somewhat firmer shock valving settings) or significantly improved ride and better handling too (with the Comfort coilovers MPP Model 3 Comfort Coilovers AWD/Performance - Mountain Pass Performance) they used to show a comfort adjustable coilovers which I think is really the sweet spot but that listing seems to have disappeared from their website. Not sure if it's been moved to another place where I can't see it, but maybe @MountainPass can clarify

 

[_Redshift_]

Except on road trips we run both of our cars which have super low profile tires at 38- 37 even. Does make a difference in New England and Florida roads where there are a lot of issues. Florida roads are better but still it makes a difference in Comfort at a modest cost in efficiency and since we have solar panels in Florida and unlimited free supercharging everywhere we're not too worried about mileage. On long trips however we suck it up and bump the PSI up to 40. You wouldn't think that two or three pounds would make a big difference since at that point is less than 10% but it really does

Good to know, and that’s exactly what I do, for long road trips. It increases the efficiency.

 

[firstkill]

Several things you can do ranging from fairly cheap to pretty expensive to mitigate some of the remaining weaknesses in the car's handling. In terms of steering feedback. First of all, I'm assuming you have the steering on either standard or sport? Secondly, check out Mountain Pass performance lower control arm bushing - MPP Model 3 Solid Front Lower Control Arm Bearings - Mountain Pass Performance. As Jesse at MPP says it makes the steering almost telepathic. Significantly more linearity, meaning more effort is required the harder the tires are working. No increased NVH at all that I can tell anyway. Secondly, consider if your budget allows or if you save towards its purchase price one of the MPP Sports coilover kits. They really transform the car. You can have somewhat improved ride and dramatically improved handling (with the MPP Model 3 Sports Coilovers AWD/Performance - Mountain Pass Performance set to somewhat firmer shock valving settings) or significantly improved ride and better handling too (with the Comfort coilovers MPP Model 3 Comfort Coilovers AWD/Performance - Mountain Pass Performance) they used to show a comfort adjustable coilovers which I think is really the sweet spot but that listing seems to have disappeared from their website. Not sure if it's been moved to another place where I can't see it, but maybe @MountainPass can clarify

Hopefully tesla will make a turn key solution one day...... The M3P was bought for my daily, so im okay with it as is...... Im blessed to have multiple cars in the stable.
Ive decided long ago that each car I have will have a roll, and if it just sits, it will be sold. Im excited about the roadster.

 

[dfwatt]

Hopefully tesla will make a turn key solution one day...... The M3P was bought for my daily, so im okay with it as is...... Im blessed to have multiple cars in the stable.
Ive decided long ago that each car I have will have a roll, and if it just sits, it will be sold. Im excited about the roadster.

Understood. There have been several threads discussing a wish list of things to create an RS version but if a car is a daily driver I think the Comfort Adjustable coilovers would really hit a sweet spot for you, particularly combined with the lower front control arm bushing. Really makes the car more fun to drive and more comfortable. You can get them both done quickly on the same install and then you are good to go. My wife who was a chronic car skeptic not just about cars but about any version of car tuning absolutely loves her Performance Model 3 with a comfort coilovers set adjustable version set at 12 / 10. And she is like the proverbial Princess and the Pea when it comes to road harshness and impact. And since she has insisted that all the "pimping out" as she puts it that I do to my car I have to do to hers - this means of course that I've got to get her a set of lightweight forged wheels. That's next on the tweaking list.