-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
M3P - Who switched from a (true) sports car?
- Thread starter drew4392
- Start date
If you feel that the model 3 Performance lacks a certain 'edge' (and many do) get one of the MPP coilover kits. For what you save in gas in 2 years you can get one of the two very fine MPP Street coilover kits. There is a third racing coilover kit but I wouldn't recommend that on a car that is principally driven on the street. We have the sport kit on my car and the Comfort adjustable kit on my wife's car. She loves it and I like my slightly firmer and tighter Sport version. Can't go wrong with either kit.
Zcd1
Active Member
I would argue that the 3P is a great canyon carver.
The fact that a slightly different driving style is required to get the best out of it doesn’t make it less fun (to me) - just different. The eye-widening rush at each corner exit never gets old!
With the Performance model, can't we adjust the drive bias and traction control nannies between a -10 and +10 bias? As well as transfer power bias more to rear if we want at like % increments or something? I've actually seen YouTube videos of guys just putting it in track mode, adjusting the bias' and swinging the tail out without any issue and burnin' the rear tires. So, for the new M3P we should just be able to play with the bias' a bit until we get the playful character properly set to our liking? The first thing I'm going to do is play with track mode and see what the extremes are for turned off and fully turned on. I'm sure there will be a happy medium in there somewhere.
Yes. Track mode works. Can light up the rear tires if you want. The car is capable for sure. The torque and acceleration is nice. Your never in the “wrong gear”. More of a muscle car vs a precision driving tool IMO
You can but it is not quite the same as what you experience on a ICE based vehicle. Track Mode requires you to put it in Park, foot on the brake and then select Track Mode from the menu. Track Mode always spins up the cooling fans, so it is a bit disconcerting when you are just playing around on the street. This is why I think they need a Sport Mode. Anyway, you do have the front rear bias but it doesn't completely disengage the front motor, it just reduces it. Also, these cars do not have a LSD, so you will feel a lot of computer control going on with the drive units. ICE feels more analog and the Teslas feels digital, if that makes sense. Even in Track Mode, rear bias set to 100%, I could not light up the rear tires. I feel like they don't relax the traction control but they do relax the stability control. You also get a ton of regen braking in Track mode, which you are supposed to use to get the weight transfer to get the car to rotate. This takes some getting used to but works quite well. I think you will find that Track Mode is good for the track but not very useful for spirited driving on the street, hence the need for something tuned in the middle like a Sport Mode and all Tesla trims should get it, not just the M3P.
After you get your car, report back, curious to get your thoughts.
Tesla fans,
I know the M3P is fast off of the line (0-60) but after it starts to die down. Can someone shed some light about after 60 with previously fast cars. Maybe reference the car you had and how it compared. In other words, how quick is M3P is compared to other vehicles? Trying to get a sense of what the car feels like past 60 in regards to others experiences with fast cars. Thanks.
I know the M3P is fast off of the line (0-60) but after it starts to die down. Can someone shed some light about after 60 with previously fast cars. Maybe reference the car you had and how it compared. In other words, how quick is M3P is compared to other vehicles? Trying to get a sense of what the car feels like past 60 in regards to others experiences with fast cars. Thanks.
This thread has quite a bit of feedback from people who moved to model 3s from sports cars, comparisons, etc.
Obviously it depends on what you are comparing to. If I compare my M3P to my ZL1, the M3P is about a .5 sec quicker to 60mph but the ZL1 is quite a bit faster once both cars are moving. For example, once you hit about 60mph in the M3P the torque to starts to fall off, so you quickly realize that the peak of the pull is over. It is still pretty quick but you can tell the car is much quicker down low vs. up top. The ZL1 by comparison just keeps pulling and pulling. This is evident when you compare the times and trap speeds of the cars. Based on the data below you can see how cars perform from an acceleration perspective. The M3P shines from a dig and those quick point and squirt passes as a result of the instant EV torque. The high horsepower cars shine when you can let them stretch their legs a bit. For example, take note of the 0-60mph vs. 0-100mph vs. 1/4 mile times below to get a sense of how it would feel. The fact that the ZL1 loses by almost a .5 sec to 60mph but makes up so much ground and winds up being quicker to 100mph and traps 10mph higher in the 1/4 mile kind of tells the story. Hope this helps.
M3P
Camaro ZL1
Zcd1
Active Member
My tuned Audi S6 ran 11.8 @ 118 mph in the 1/4 mile, so about 0.3 higher ET than the M3P, but with a similar or higher trap speed. There's no doubt that over about 110 mph and at full boost the Audi was the faster car. However, when off-boost, or even at partial boost (meaning most of the time) when you floored it, you had to wait for the transmission to kick down, boost to build, then FINALLY it took off.
By contrast, at any speed, planting your foot in the M3P leads to instant full torque with zero delay, even though that torque does fall off at higher speeds. The net effect is that the M3P is the far quicker car anywhere, anytime other than over 110 mph at full throttle, meaning 99.9997% of the time.
I’m a recent covert. Good time for a first post!
Model 3:
Amazing instant acceleration. Superb throttle response and control that no ICE can match.
It creates a giggly face all the time, and you don’t need to send the battery into any fancy warm up mode and you don’t need a 4 step launch control process. The simplicity of just being able to mash the pedal all the time any time it’s something that is not nearly talked about enough. It’s simply nuts.
Interior is nicer than I expected. It doesn’t feel cheap to me and I have had very nice cars. It doesn’t have the special feeling of a Porsche or the premium materials and build but I wouldn’t say it’s cheap looking or feeling.
I love the minimalist approach to the interior and exterior. I thought it would take some getting used to as well as having the speedometer kind of off to the side but it really doesn’t bother me at all.
It’s a little nosier than I expected at highway speeds but not as bad as people say really as long as your windows are sealed up properly.
I like it’s size over the model S.
I like the infotainment. Its intuitive.
Handling is great. It’s sporty, but for being just a plain old all around shock system without all of the active/adaptive gobbledygook it’s pretty good honestly. I also appreciate the fact that if I have to replace some parts for maintenance it’s not gonna cost $4000 to replace air or magnetic suspension. I do think adaptive shocks would be a game changer for the model 3 as a performance option though.
Seats are super comfortable and I love the white interior.
For the price it should have powered trunk and frunk release.
Interior carpets are a bit non- premium.
Overall as a daily there isn’t much to criticize. It just simply blows away 90% of everything on the road 90% of the time with no drama. I’ve driven some amazing performance sedans and no the model 3 doesn’t have the poise at the edge of your driving skills as a german super sedan…..but 99% of the time that is a completely irrelevant issue. I literally never drive my cars on a track or in a way that can take advantage of what say my Panamera Turbo S could give you (although if you do what a Panamera can do is mind boggling..).
There are spread sheets in magazines, and YouTube head to heads in a controlled environment, and then there are the realities of traffic, crappy streets, potholes and general driving conditions that a Tesla is just very well suited for. I am surprised that then went with 20” wheels though S good as they look!!!
If it was a little quieter and had a bit more dynamic driving modes available I think it would gobble up even more of the performance sedan buyers. A Little more range without as much performance loss as the battery drains and it will be hard to go back to ICE for me ever again.
Last few cars as daily drivers, most recent prior to Model 3 Performance:
2016 GTR full E85 bolt on
I mean what can I say a blast. A bit rough for a daily. A bit too loud on the highway. MPG was rough…. Gets too much attention. Its loud and clunky and is sort of like driving an old muscle car that isn’t an old car. I was always kind of worried about something breaking though nothing did. Better as a weekend toy. The 2017 + models have a vastly improved interior. The pull of 600 wheel hp and tq at highway speeds is hard to describe….
2012 Panamera Turbo S
Best interior of any car I’ve owned. By far. Transmission is clunky at low speeds but perfection the more aggressive you get. Just superb handling, no surprise, and likes to be driven to the edge more than the RS7. 4 years no issues other than the heated steering wheel crapped out. Super expensive to have fixed if it breaks but they usually don’t. Just a fanatical car that I didn’t want to own as a high mileage car out of warranty….not at an original $200,000 sticker.
2014 RS7
Great daily driver. Fantastic smooth transmission. Great daily driving suspension- not too stiff. Great infotainment. A little buggy. Brakes way too expensive and very high maintenance schedule.
2014 SRT Jeep
Fun practical vehicle with a fantastic exhaust note. Super fast for what it is. Pretty good interior. Rides a little story gf and is very loud on the highway. Good infotainment.
2011 CTS V Coupe
Mag ride is fantastic for daily use. Get car for it’s time. Nothing bad to say about it. I’d like a manual version some day.
Model 3:
Amazing instant acceleration. Superb throttle response and control that no ICE can match.
It creates a giggly face all the time, and you don’t need to send the battery into any fancy warm up mode and you don’t need a 4 step launch control process. The simplicity of just being able to mash the pedal all the time any time it’s something that is not nearly talked about enough. It’s simply nuts.
Interior is nicer than I expected. It doesn’t feel cheap to me and I have had very nice cars. It doesn’t have the special feeling of a Porsche or the premium materials and build but I wouldn’t say it’s cheap looking or feeling.
I love the minimalist approach to the interior and exterior. I thought it would take some getting used to as well as having the speedometer kind of off to the side but it really doesn’t bother me at all.
It’s a little nosier than I expected at highway speeds but not as bad as people say really as long as your windows are sealed up properly.
I like it’s size over the model S.
I like the infotainment. Its intuitive.
Handling is great. It’s sporty, but for being just a plain old all around shock system without all of the active/adaptive gobbledygook it’s pretty good honestly. I also appreciate the fact that if I have to replace some parts for maintenance it’s not gonna cost $4000 to replace air or magnetic suspension. I do think adaptive shocks would be a game changer for the model 3 as a performance option though.
Seats are super comfortable and I love the white interior.
For the price it should have powered trunk and frunk release.
Interior carpets are a bit non- premium.
Overall as a daily there isn’t much to criticize. It just simply blows away 90% of everything on the road 90% of the time with no drama. I’ve driven some amazing performance sedans and no the model 3 doesn’t have the poise at the edge of your driving skills as a german super sedan…..but 99% of the time that is a completely irrelevant issue. I literally never drive my cars on a track or in a way that can take advantage of what say my Panamera Turbo S could give you (although if you do what a Panamera can do is mind boggling..).
There are spread sheets in magazines, and YouTube head to heads in a controlled environment, and then there are the realities of traffic, crappy streets, potholes and general driving conditions that a Tesla is just very well suited for. I am surprised that then went with 20” wheels though S good as they look!!!
If it was a little quieter and had a bit more dynamic driving modes available I think it would gobble up even more of the performance sedan buyers. A Little more range without as much performance loss as the battery drains and it will be hard to go back to ICE for me ever again.
Last few cars as daily drivers, most recent prior to Model 3 Performance:
2016 GTR full E85 bolt on
I mean what can I say a blast. A bit rough for a daily. A bit too loud on the highway. MPG was rough…. Gets too much attention. Its loud and clunky and is sort of like driving an old muscle car that isn’t an old car. I was always kind of worried about something breaking though nothing did. Better as a weekend toy. The 2017 + models have a vastly improved interior. The pull of 600 wheel hp and tq at highway speeds is hard to describe….
2012 Panamera Turbo S
Best interior of any car I’ve owned. By far. Transmission is clunky at low speeds but perfection the more aggressive you get. Just superb handling, no surprise, and likes to be driven to the edge more than the RS7. 4 years no issues other than the heated steering wheel crapped out. Super expensive to have fixed if it breaks but they usually don’t. Just a fanatical car that I didn’t want to own as a high mileage car out of warranty….not at an original $200,000 sticker.
2014 RS7
Great daily driver. Fantastic smooth transmission. Great daily driving suspension- not too stiff. Great infotainment. A little buggy. Brakes way too expensive and very high maintenance schedule.
2014 SRT Jeep
Fun practical vehicle with a fantastic exhaust note. Super fast for what it is. Pretty good interior. Rides a little story gf and is very loud on the highway. Good infotainment.
2011 CTS V Coupe
Mag ride is fantastic for daily use. Get car for it’s time. Nothing bad to say about it. I’d like a manual version some day.
Nice review. I love the instant response and effortless power of the M3P. As a daily it is hard to fault. I wish the performance trim had a more sporty cockpit, some recaros and a performance RWD Model. That CTS-V was awesome. I just picked up a Camaro ZL1 and I realized how much I missed the V8 exhaust note and ripping through the gears. I just hope the manufacturers can find ways to add more character to EVs moving forward because once you get used to the instant torque I am struggling to find much else I like about the driving experience. I mean when your EV pickup truck, minivan and performance sedan will all have instant torque and do 0-60mph in 3 sec then what. Driving dynamics, styling and tech features are going to have to play a major role in creating differentiation. I find myself getting more excited about the upcoming Nissan Z with a manual transmission than a a lot of the EV stuff.
Zcd1
Active Member
A friend who owns a 2012 CTS-V wagon (in black!) recently drove my car and I drove his.
He was gobsmacked by my car.
His was fun, though soft-feeling by comparison.
We had a couple of friendly pulls. 45 mph roll wasn’t close (he never had a chance). 65 mph roll was closer, but I still pulled until we let off.
His is a cool car, but I wouldn’t want to DD it.
He was gobsmacked by my car.
His was fun, though soft-feeling by comparison.
We had a couple of friendly pulls. 45 mph roll wasn’t close (he never had a chance). 65 mph roll was closer, but I still pulled until we let off.
His is a cool car, but I wouldn’t want to DD it.
I think the key is fun. This is why the Miata is still around after 30 years. I keep going back to one every few years since they are so fun to drive on the street.
Zcd1
Active Member
But is it fun for the whole family?
Kidding aside, I think we all agree the Model 3 is a great car but where should it go from here? What makes it fun? What would you change for a 2023/2024 model? If there was another performance focused EV from another manufacturer what features would entice you trade M3P in?For me it would be features like:
- Sporty seats with proper bolstering
- RWD only with less weight and improved driving dynamics and more linear power delivery
- Traditional cockpit with sporty looking gauges
- More aggressive styling front end and diffuser
- 19" inch forged wheel with wider tires, maybe flare the fenders a bit to accommodate
- Adaptive suspension
- Solid roof
- Drive modes with relaxed nannies to make the car more playful
- Heads Up Display
I love the seats. Sometimes they are almost too soft. I’m not sure what the answer there is. Some sport seats in sports cars are not comfortable, and it’s not a good compromise on a car that might at best spend 1% of its time on a track or driving at the edge of its capability. Maybe a little wider seats, with a bit more aggressive bolstering, and some butt and back bolstering adjustments buttons would be nice.
How could the power be more linear? It’s so instant and at max power for so long. Everything has to taper off at the top end. Do you not want to loose as much power after 80? Are you willing to give up 0-60 speed because I’m not! The power delivery is so much better, and the throttle response more crisp, than every car I’ve ever owned I don’t know what could possibly be changed. No arguing this point, I’m curious from a driving standpoint what you want the car to do.
RWD only can be had with track mode (kind of). You can defeat some of the Nannys that way but it would be fairly dangerous with the instant torque to have that totally tuned off. I guess I’ve never understood the burn outs and drifting obsession if that makes what you’d like to do. A drift mode is probably possible with the software if they wanted to add it.
No way for the gauges. The whole point is to stay minimalist. The entire design is about that. Totally disagree with more screens and buttons. Now what would be cool is having a customizable screen, or having it change in sport mode to display performance oriented data. The HUD as you ask for later could have gauges and performance displays too. A HUD would be very cool, useful and fit the design approach of the Tesla brand perfectly. It’s actually kind of odd they don’t already offer it in my opinion.
More special appearance changes for the sportier model for sure. Lighter wheel and brake package yep. Adaptive (non air) active suspecting (magnetic ride control is superior to air and cheaper to maintain). There are certain some little things that would be awesome to add, though I would be concerned how much it makes the car cost!
Curious on the solid roof. Do you hate the sun or so you think it would save weight and stiffen up the chassis? As a whole if the car is engineered around a glass roof, there isn’t necessarily going to be a huge change to have a solid roof to either parameter. As a path to overall all weight savings, and being re-engineered with that in mind sure, although that would take such a manufacturing change from the base model I don’t think it would ever happen. Everything else is possible though!
First off, I think the Model 3 is a great car as I purchased both a M3P and SR+. I since sold the M3P but still have the SR+. My list above is just a wish list for a more performance focused Model 3.
I agree hardcore Recaro seats may not suit most buyers since they do make it harder to get in and out of the car but my take is that on the performance trim they should at least be an option. A car with these kind performance specs and includes a Track Mode should be able to hold you better in the seat.
Two things come to mind. First, I think the throttle mapping could tuned to be more linear or at least create drive modes or let us tune it a bit like you can the weight of the steering. IMO, the throttle in the M3P is like an on/off switch, it only takes like a 1/4 inch press of the accelerator to command 80% power. The rest of the pedal travel feels dead in comparison. By more linear I mean 50% press of accelerator should equal 50% command of power, foot to the floor equals 100% power. You get used to the difference in all cars but in this case since the torque response it so immediate it would be nice to have more control when tracking the car. Remember, the on/off throttle in this car initiates regen braking, which is even stronger in Track Mode and having greater control would lessen the chance of upsetting the chassis too much coming into a turn.
The second would be more balanced power delivery like you mentioned. Tesla addressed this with the Plaid but it would be nice to see better balanced performance in the M3P as well. I am not sure what the solution would be at M3P pricing but Porsche used a 2-speed ZF transmission in the Taycan to achieve better high speed performance. The M3P is a hero at low speeds, which is where most of the street performance is usable and appreciated but if you track the car or even appreciate the occasional 70-110mph highway pulls there is quite a difference in power.
Understood, to me and probably many driving enthusiasts the M3P car is really locked down with nanny controls. I am cool with that and would recommend that be the default setting for safety but I would also like the option to "relax" them without having to enter track mode. For example, on many performance cars the traction and stability control will let you have a little fun but keep you out of trouble. The traction control will allow a certain amount of slip assuming the car is pointed straight and the stability control will let you kick the tail out a bit based on slip angle. I am not looking for Tokyo drifts or anything but these characteristics are what make a car a little more playful. A RWD performance model would be my choice if they offered it. I enjoy the way the SR+ handles vs. the M3P, it has mid-engine type driving dynamics.
I liked the minimalist design at first but then I got back into proper sports car cockpit and I realized how much I missed it. The seating position and way the dash and gauges surround you up front feels more special to me. I am thinking a combination of the center screen plus driver focused displays/gauges like the Model S has is ideal.
Ha, love the sun down here in sunny south Florida, although even tinted that glass roof does let a lot of extra heat in. My thoughts on a performance focused model is that maybe use aluminum to keep weight down but also use that opportunity to create a body line in the roof for the performance trim. The Model 3 and Y have the bubble profile, much worse on Model Y that I am not particularly a fan of.
RainMeister
E = M3P
This is an interesting thread. Lots of posts from serious car nuts with experience driving some seriously fast machinery. It is quite refreshing after spending time at other car enthusiast sites, where the mere mention of a Tesla causes other brand loyalists (I'm looking at you Porsche, BMW, Honda and Alfa Romeo fans!) to start frothing at the mouth and having a coronary. Someone earlier said that driving is about having fun, and many of those in the anti-EV crowd have no idea what they are missing. It's why I like to own a variety of cars from different eras, so that I get to enjoy each driving experience. Variety is indeed the spice of life.
Similar threads
