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Made in China Model 3: Build Quality / Hardware Differences

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I picked up my M3 back in December 2020. On Delivery day in the glove-box there's a 'Parts List'/Certificate of conformity' which lists the battery variant in the Model 3 that you've got. That's the only hard way that I've read about on these forums, other than plugging into the OBD port with Scan my Tesla. Or with a bore-scope through the Wheel-arch to read the sticker on the pack.

E5D = LG Chem China Pack
E3D = Panasonic US Pack

For the Dec 2020 deliveries (from what I've gathered trying to find out what pack I've got);
- SR+ from China got the E5D LPF pack, and those from the US had a mix of either packs.
- Long Range from the US got Panasonic Packs (This was mainly US and RHD deliveries). And Long Range from China for Europe got LPF Packs.
- Performance only got Panasonic Packs with extended capacity up to 84 kWh. (The only way to tell is with an OBD scanner and Scan My Tesla)

There's also some reports that some Long Range cars got the 84 kWh packs. Currently awaiting my OBD scanner in the post ~

Thanks very much for that. Learned a lot there.

Sounds like those of us with orders for delivery from China in early March may be the first ones to receive Shanghai built LR AWD M3s.

If these do use the LFP battery, I hope all this extra weight and slow charging isn’t too much of a let down. I think I’m still excited!
 
2) Charge rate - this is the big one. Tesla rep insists that all cars have a theoretical maximum charge rate of 250kwh, but that is never achieved in real practice and that's fine. But what they don't say is that LFP batteries have a different thermal model all-together and will likely only charge at 80-90kwh at highest rate, even with preconditioning on. This seems to be reported by many users. What's more interesting is navigating to Tesla Website and looking at the Model 3 advertised specs
- Hong Kong website (which I assume gets LFP by default) advertises "You can charge 270km in 30 minutes at Supercharger locations" (which is 167 miles so you don't bother). That is roughly a sustained 30 minutes charge rate of 80-90kwh given the battery capacity, in line with what everyone is reporting on youtube etc. It's the 2021 model 3 showcased in the image, so it's not old information.
- UK website advertises "You can charge 175miles in 15 minutes at Supercharger locations" which is really in line with a rate of ~ 160-170kwh sustained charging rate for about 15 minutes, again in line with what other users are reporting.

Both UK and HK have 250kwh superchargers (and 150kwh ones) so it's not the chargers, it's the battery type making the difference.
Charging rate is measured in kW (a unit of power), NOT "kwh".

If you were able to charge at a steady 150 kW * 1 hour --> 150 kWh came out of the charger. 150 kW * 0.25 hours --> 37.5 kWh

Energy and battery capacity are measured in kWh.
 
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Also worth putting some factual data against some of the claims made about rapid charge rates. For example, the CCS connector used here and in Europe has an absolute maximum current rating of 500 A, with liquid cooling. With a battery voltage of around 400 VDC, the absolute maximum rate of charge allowable without exceeding the connector rating is 200 kW. It is physically impossible for a UK/European rapid charger, that uses a CCS connector (as all new UK and European Teslas do) to charge at more than about 200 kW into a car with a ~400 V battery pack.

Cars that have a higher voltage battery pack can take advantage of the higher charge rates offered by some rapid chargers. For example, the Porsche Taycan has a battery voltage that's around double that of any Tesla, so in theory could charge at double the power for the same connector current limit.

Because of the absolute maximum connector current limit, and because all rapid chargers must ensure that the current through the cable and connector doesn't exceed this limit (it is a safety certification limit) then none are going to be able to charge a Tesla at more than about 200 kW, even if they have a theoretical rating that's higher. It may be that the connectors used in other parts of the world have a different rating, I've only checked the UK and European CCS specifications.

The higher powered DC chargers are capable of delivering higher voltages than those used by current generation Teslas (and other makes) though, so it's quite probable that they will, in the future, be able to charge cars at a higher power level, if the use of higher voltage battery packs becomes more common.
 
Also worth putting some factual data against some of the claims made about rapid charge rates. For example, the CCS connector used here and in Europe has an absolute maximum current rating of 500 A, with liquid cooling. With a battery voltage of around 400 VDC, the absolute maximum rate of charge allowable without exceeding the connector rating is 200 kW. It is physically impossible for a UK/European rapid charger, that uses a CCS connector (as all new UK and European Teslas do) to charge at more than about 200 kW into a car with a ~400 V battery pack.

Cars that have a higher voltage battery pack can take advantage of the higher charge rates offered by some rapid chargers. For example, the Porsche Taycan has a battery voltage that's around double that of any Tesla, so in theory could charge at double the power for the same connector current limit.

Because of the absolute maximum connector current limit, and because all rapid chargers must ensure that the current through the cable and connector doesn't exceed this limit (it is a safety certification limit) then none are going to be able to charge a Tesla at more than about 200 kW, even if they have a theoretical rating that's higher. It may be that the connectors used in other parts of the world have a different rating, I've only checked the UK and European CCS specifications.

The higher powered DC chargers are capable of delivering higher voltages than those used by current generation Teslas (and other makes) though, so it's quite probable that they will, in the future, be able to charge cars at a higher power level, if the use of higher voltage battery packs becomes more common.

Thanks for that. But the LFP battery cars don’t seem to charge above 70 kw. For me this is an issue if my Made in China LR AWD car will only supercharge that fast.
 
Is this not a case of ignorance is bliss?

if people just received this car, and didn’t delve into the battery manufacturer etc, would they experience anything out of the ordinary, or would they simply be blissfully unaware?

I wonder if this is like the whole battery degradation obsession - people worried about something they can’t control and will probably make zero difference to them in practical terms over the lifetime of the car.
 
I thought the LFP batteries were only going into the SR+.

That’s the key question here. I can’t find anyone who can definitively say if the MIC LR has the LFP battery or not. And if so whether it is affected by slow Supercharging

one fellow club member says Tesla told him all MIC cars are LFP now

I phoned Tesla yesterday and the said that they won’y know what the battery chemistry is on the MIC LR cars until they arrive in the U.K.
 
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Thanks for that. But the LFP battery cars don’t seem to charge above 70 kw. For me this is an issue if my Made in China LR AWD car will only supercharge that fast.

There is normally a fairly wide range of rapid charge speeds, caused by several different factors, some relating to the car, some relating to the charger, so trying to pin down an exact reason for a particularly slow rapid charge rate may not be easy, and, as always, correlation does not prove causation.

The biggest single factors affecting maximum DC charge rate will be state of charge and temperature, with temperature being a really major factor for all lithium ion cells. When cold they simply will not charge at a high rate. I've built packs using LiFePO4 cells and their cold temperature performance doesn't seem to be much different to that for other chemistries.

They do tend to have a much flatter open circuit voltage versus state of charge characteristic though, and this makes it significantly more difficult for anything that's trying to estimate state of charge in the mid range (i.e. not when nearly charged, or nearly discharged). It's possible that the battery management system may be erring on the side of caution and limiting the charge rate if it believes that it may be higher than it really is. Given that there can be no cell group balancing process running during a rapid DC charge, there needs to be an abundance of caution within the battery management system algorithm to ensure that no cell group gets pushed to an excessively high terminal voltage during the charge, and requesting the charger to reduce the current may be a good way of ensuring this in some circumstances.

If I had to guess, given the short time it took Tesla to test and qualify the LiFePO4 cells, I'd suggest that the BMS may need some fine tuning, once enough data has been collected, in order to get the best balance between battery pack health and maximum rate of charge for any given condition. Tesla have over a decade of experience with what are essentially variations of the basic LiCoO2 chemistry cells (currently LiNiMnCoO2), that have a typical fully charged open circuit terminal voltage of ~4.2 V per cell. They have barely more than a year's experience with LiFePO4 cells, that have a typically fully charged terminal voltage of ~3.65 V.

I don't think that Tesla are likely to stick with using LiFePo4 cells long term, TBH. All their in-house cell development seems focussed on a reduced cobalt LiNiMnCoO2 type of cell, with a higher energy density than the 2170 cells that are in production at the moment. The Chinese LiFePO4 cells are way down on energy density, around 13% to 15% lower than current LiNiMnCoO2 cells, so the battery pack needs to be bigger/heavier in order to have the same capacity, and that probably has some impact on vehicle efficiency. I'm sure the switch to LiFePO4 cells in the Shanghai made cars is most probably because cells of that type are more readily available in China. Because LiFePO4 cells are also a great deal safer, there may even be regulatory pressure there to use them.
 
For example, the CCS connector used here and in Europe has an absolute maximum current rating of 500 A, with liquid cooling. With a battery voltage of around 400 VDC, the absolute maximum rate of charge allowable without exceeding the connector rating is 200 kW. It is physically impossible for a UK/European rapid charger, that uses a CCS connector (as all new UK and European Teslas do) to charge at more than about 200 kW into a car with a ~400 V battery pack.

That true unless that car and charge are made and under control of Testa. Tesla has a long history of having computer monitored temperature on connectors and hence being able to safely go over the standard current specs for a short time. (The standards assume a constant current on a hot day.)
 
How does a LFP VIN Looks like? Would be cool if we had one to test it and see. It seems to me that all VIN possible options for character 7 (which tells the battery version) return Lithium Ion. Technically LFP is still Lithium Ion so that is correct.

I have a "F" in the 7th position of my VIN ... 2020 SR+ MIC with LFP battery.

This matches what is described on this site: Tesla vehicle VIN number Decoder
 
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E5D = LG Chem China Pack
E3D = Panasonic US Pack

For the Dec 2020 deliveries (from what I've gathered trying to find out what pack I've got);
- SR+ from China got the E5D LPF pack, and those from the US had a mix of either packs.
- Long Range from the US got Panasonic Packs (This was mainly US and RHD deliveries). And Long Range from China for Europe got LPF Packs.

Just a small correction. E5D battery packs made of LG Chem cells are NMC not LFP.
The battery pack of SR+ are not E5D ... those are made with LFP prismatic cells from CATL.
 
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Interesting. I have an "E" in my LR. Which stands for "electric" which apparently is the Lith Ion battery

All Teslas have Lithium Ion battery packs, they have never, as far as I know, used anything else.

Lithium Ion cells come in a wide range of types, though, from the early LiCoO2 (lithium cobalt oxide) cells, through to the current LiNiMnCoO2 cells (lithium nickel manganese cobalt oxide). Sat in the middle, in terms of the sequence of chemistries developed, are LiFePO4 cells (lithium iron phosphate).

There are various abbreviations in use for these different electrode chemistries, like LiFePO4 cells often now being referred to as LFP and LiNiMnCoO2 cells being referred to as NMC. There are bound to be more variations of lithium ion cells coming out all the time, as manufacturers seek to improve energy density and reduce cost. The latter point is leading to a focus on reducing the amount of cobalt used in cells, as it's far and away the most expensive single element used at the moment.