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MASTER THREAD: 2021 Model 3 - Charge data, battery discussion etc

eivissa

M3P 2021 / FSD
Jun 11, 2020
411
854
Germany
...and here is a first charge curve by user @teraxion at TFF Forum:

01911683171475664b14d54552c24cc1cb7186fe_2_690x345.png

1636909209601.png
 
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hamm

Espresso enthusiast and taco connoisseur
Jul 23, 2021
28
15
Toronto
Ok I feel like it's been a minute since anyone has cleared some stuff up. I have tried to scour this thread but there is no real info on these things. So I kinda wanna just bluntly ask...

I own a 2021 LR in Canada, built in Fremont in 08/21.
I am told by Tessie that I have 77.5kWh of battery at 100% (edit, the graph does show 77.8kWh, with 77.5 available to me)
My energy screen math has shown me the same number.
According to reports, LRs with a 77.8kWh battery are capped at 74-75kWh

What the HEGG battery do I have? Is it an 82 capped at 78? Is it a wide open 77.8?
 
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eivissa

M3P 2021 / FSD
Jun 11, 2020
411
854
Germany
According to reports, LRs with a 77.8kWh battery are capped at 74-75kWh
This only applies to Europe from Q4/2020 to Q1/2021 on Panasonic 3C LR with 580km WLTP. The US was unrestricted all along and needs to be as 77,8kWh are needed for the claimed 353 miles EPA.
What the HEGG battery do I have? Is it an 82 capped at 78? Is it a wide open 77.8?
How about you take a picture of your battery sticker. Not a fun thing for you back, but the fastest and reliable solution to get your answer.
 
I’ve watched the video and tried like 26 times, I just can’t squuuuze in there
If you follow this guide exactly, tells you where to place the phone:

I put the light in exactly the same place and put the base of the phone on plastic bottom - allowing me to either press the shutter button or squeeze the vol down to take a pic. Make sure you're on full left lock.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,003
15,554
San Diego
This a E5LD that was picked up from Tesla today and the owner came straight to me for SMT scan and SuC V3 charge curve test.

View attachment 733619

Charge Power vs. Cell Temp @ SuC V3 (7% to 80%)
View attachment 733620
I wonder whether they have known for a long time that these LG packs were not going to be as dense as the new Panasonic and that is why they limited (or binned???) the new Panasonic 82.1kWh packs to about 79kWh in the 2021 LRs?

I know we have no firm evidence (voltage limits on low end - it’s not the high end for sure, etc) the LRs (non-P) with Panasonic 82.1kWh packs were being limited, but I have a hard time seeing that it is any other way, when we see vehicle after vehicle hooked up to SMT and showing less than 80kWh. (I think you have said before that you have seen exceptions.)

There is just a clear difference with the SMT results for the P vs. LR, when comparing vehicles with 82.1kWh packs.

Now Tesla can use the new LG packs and they aren’t any different than the Panasonic 82.1kWh when it comes to energy available. Since the Panasonics were apparently somehow limited…

Thoughts? I guess I could be convinced the Panasonic 82.1kWh packs weren’t actually being limited (and we were just seeing selection bias) if I see at least three captures from SMT on LRs showing 81kWh NFP…


---

I'm also wondering whether we'll see a change in the degradation threshold on these vehicles or whether they'll just leave it at 77.8kWh or so? The EPA range (with the Panasonic packs of course, not this LG pack) has gone to 358 miles which would be 78.9kWh with the old constant. (But the constant could be different because there may be other vehicle tweaks which resulted in a different EPA efficiency.) So hard to know where it will end up.

We'll need to see some energy screen pictures. I guess it may also really be time for a 2022 sticky thread. Haha.
 
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In the last ten days I had a rise on NFP (from the very bottom 75,5kWh to 77,5 kWh), I made nothing special nothing different than usual.
I charge always in AC when I reach about 25-30% and I charge to 60-65% , and usually when I stop after the first trip after the charge I'm at 55-57%. The car sleep and stay always under 60%.
Model 3 Performance E3LD . March 20121, Odometer: 17300 km.
I have more kWh charged in DC (supercharger) than in AC, because i don't use so much the car, but often I do trips with family of 1000 or 1500 km for long weekends where I use only Suercharger.
I've put in an Excel graph because I have not TeslaFi.
1637152576885.png
 
I'm also wondering whether we'll see a change in the degradation threshold on these vehicles or whether they'll just leave it at 77.8kWh or so? The EPA range (with the Panasonic packs of course, not this LG pack) has gone to 358 miles which would be 78.9kWh with the old constant. (But the constant could be different because there may be other vehicle tweaks which resulted in a different EPA efficiency.) So hard to know where it will end up.

We'll need to see some energy screen pictures. I guess it may also really be time for a 2022 sticky thread. Haha.
From the SMT scan, it looks like the constant has to be 218, 219, or 220 Wh/rmi. That's the closest I can determine from the available precision. It appears he may be just short of the 358 rated miles, which puts him below the degradation threshold, which would be somewhere between 78.0 and 78.8 kWh.
 
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AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
12,003
15,554
San Diego
From the SMT scan, it looks like the constant has to be 218, 219, or 220 Wh/rmi. That's the closest I can determine from the available precision. It appears he may be just short of the 358 rated miles, which puts him below the degradation threshold, which would be somewhere between 78.0 and 78.8 kWh.
Good point, there is info right there in the capture. And it does suggest that. The constant does look like ~219Wh/mi from SMT (77.8kWh/355mi) - though as we know that derived value can be higher than the one derived from the energy screen, if the car exceeds the degradation threshold, of course.

But as you say, the vehicle showing 355 miles suggests that it is quite likely they have updated the display limit to 358 miles. And yes, if indeed that have done that, it would suggest that this vehicle is below the threshold, thus the 219Wh/mi is not an expanded value. So that would suggest the degradation threshold is about 358mi*219Wh/mi = 78.4kWh (or 78.8kWh if it's actually 220Wh/mi). I do suspect in the end it will relatively closely match the Model Y non-P value of 79kWh, as I said previously.

I’d still like to see a contemporaneous energy screen just to make sure we aren’t missing anything. Especially given this is a European vehicle and they can do strange things like have 95.5% SoC be 100% on this car display, etc., etc.
 
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Hi all
Sorry for asking on something that might already be answered clearly in this 117 pages long thread ! :)
So I am about to buy an almost new T3 Long range 2021 Refresh. I have several options available
I learned a bit about batteries now. But just want to
1) get confirmed I understand it correctly and
2) try to understand how important it really in in Normal life driving (and value perservation of the car)

All below are T3 LR 2021 on the German market. I am offered a
- T3 registered in August which has a e5cd battery.
- T3 regstered in May with a e3ld battery
- T3 regstered in april/may with a e5d
Not sure about country of origin for production. But it seems China produced have the 5's and the US the 3 battery.
Also people saying China cars are better produced and painted than US cars ?
Seems like it leads to the combo of US= Best battery/bad painting and China=less good battery/best painting ?

But also this important question for a newbie: How much does this actually matter in terms of RANGE, CHARGING SPEED, RELIABILY/LIFE of the battery and HOW to charge (one said the e5 can be charged to 100% every time with no risk whereas the e3LD should only be charged to 80% ??

THANK YOU for bringing me closer to buying decision !
 
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eivissa

M3P 2021 / FSD
Jun 11, 2020
411
854
Germany
I wonder whether they have known for a long time that these LG packs were not going to be as dense as the new Panasonic and that is why they limited (or binned???) the new Panasonic 82.1kWh packs to about 79kWh in the 2021 LRs?
You are right. It is a funny coincidence, that the US LR 2022 has a range increase that reflects the capacity increase of the Panasonic 77,8 to the LG 79'ish pack and also that of a Panasonic 3L pack that with normal calibration gets in the same 79'ish region.

I am still in doubt of a binning process in favour of Performance cars, but I will pay more attention and try to find some data to verify the situation.
 

eivissa

M3P 2021 / FSD
Jun 11, 2020
411
854
Germany
Hi all
Sorry for asking on something that might already be answered clearly in this 117 pages long thread ! :)
So I am about to buy an almost new T3 Long range 2021 Refresh. I have several options available
I learned a bit about batteries now. But just want to
1) get confirmed I understand it correctly and
2) try to understand how important it really in in Normal life driving (and value perservation of the car)

All below are T3 LR 2021 on the German market. I am offered a
- T3 registered in August which has a e5cd battery.
- T3 regstered in May with a e3ld battery
- T3 regstered in april/may with a e5d
Not sure about country of origin for production. But it seems China produced have the 5's and the US the 3 battery.
Also people saying China cars are better produced and painted than US cars ?
Seems like it leads to the combo of US= Best battery/bad painting and China=less good battery/best painting ?

But also this important question for a newbie: How much does this actually matter in terms of RANGE, CHARGING SPEED, RELIABILY/LIFE of the battery and HOW to charge (one said the e5 can be charged to 100% every time with no risk whereas the e3LD should only be charged to 80% ??

THANK YOU for bringing me closer to buying decision !
Get the E3LD that was built in may. This is the best pack of the bunch and Q2 cars are, although built in the US, of very good quality!
 
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eivissa

M3P 2021 / FSD
Jun 11, 2020
411
854
Germany
A may built LR has...
  • The fastest DC charging speed.
  • The largest capacity
  • Best US quality, almost China built level
  • All the latest tech. Not many relevant changes after that
  • AVAS with boom box, but legally still detachable to make the car completely quiet.
There will be more cars coming on the market in the coming weeks. Just wait for one with a tow hitch or send me a message. I might be able to hook you up with some owners in Germany.
 
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