Wiki MASTER THREAD: Actual FSD Beta downloads and experiences

[Twiglett]

Yes - lot of variability. I suspect many of the "great improvements" or "it sucks now" that we see are actually just such variability.

I think you're right, consistency is not one of its strong points right now, but realistically I guess we should expect that during beta.
I keep forgetting that I have another profile setup in the car that has FSD disabled so I can get closer to the "prebeta" experience when family is in the car

 

[aronth5]

Looks like FSD Beta 10.5 can perform decently on snow-covered curvy mountain highways:

@Mardak
Do you have a link to this drive?
From a couple of FSD snow drives I've watched it certainly doesn't appear FSD and snow covered roads get along well at all. And I wouldn't expect otherwise.

 

[drtimhill]

absolutely its at fault
Why would the system prioritize map data over what the camera sees and car is tracking?
It can see the road markings in front, as well as the car its tracking. It can also see that it hasn't made a right turn and it very obviously doesn't need to make a turn onto the road its already traveling on.
It already has all that information it STILL decides that the map is correct and ignores all the other evidence to the contrary.

Yes did report to tesla multiple times, multiple snapshots taken, emails sent. Opened a support ticket as well.
Tesla replied that mapping errors like this are FSD issues - so they too see it as an FSD issue.

Your post really wasn't clear what AP was doing vs what FSD was doing (and it still isnt). My point was simply that the underlying cause was a map issue, as both AP and FSD are "seeing" the wrong information from the maps, but responding differently (as you would expect).

 

[EVNow]

absolutely its at fault
Why would the system prioritize map data over what the camera sees and car is tracking?

Correct.

But its a current limitation of FSD Beta. It will be a while before FSD can drive when reality is drastically different from map data.

 

[momo3605]

I think you're right, consistency is not one of its strong points right now, but realistically I guess we should expect that during beta.
I keep forgetting that I have another profile setup in the car that has FSD disabled so I can get closer to the "prebeta" experience when family is in the car

A lot of people have mentioned turning off the beta, but out of curiosity what’s the point of that?

When you’re on the freeway, the car switches to old AP/NoA behavior. How would that be any different?

 

[drtimhill]

A lot of people have mentioned turning off the beta, but out of curiosity what’s the point of that?

When you’re on the freeway, the car switches to old AP/NoA behavior. How would that be any different?

I *think* (and @Twiglett can correct me if I'm wrong) that this was a case of the map causing FSD to take over when it was inappropriate. At present, with the dual stacks (AP/NOA vs FSD), the system relies on map data to choose if it should be in FSD mode (for city streets) or NOA mode (for freeways).

There are a few sections of freeway around me (all connector ramps between two freeways) where FSD takes over for a few hundred yards where it clearly shouldn't. In my case, this doesnt really make much difference, but I can see where this can be a serious problem as FSD could (e.g.) stop on a freeway.

 

[j0shm1lls]

This morning on the way to work, FSD was making a left hand turn and it looked as though it was going to cut the corner too close, so I turned away and completed the turn. Immediately after completing the turn, the UI displayed the “Red Hands: Take over immediately” so I did, and then immediately after I saw the message “Autosteer unavailable due to system error”. The FSD UI was still displaying, however it only showed the lane lines and road edges, no other vehicles were displayed and there were clearly many around me that should have been displayed in the UI. It took roughly a minute or so, but as I was slowing down and the next light, the other vehicles surrounding me were once again displayed in the FSD UI. Either way I emailed the FSDBeta team.

EDIT: The car and I were never in any real danger, just another FSD Beta situation that had to be dealt with.

 

[EVNow]

This morning on the way to work, FSD was making a left hand turn and it looked as though it was going to cut the corner too close, so I turned away and completed the turn. Immediately after completing the turn, the UI displayed the “Red Hands: Take over immediately” so I did, and then immediately after I saw the message “Autosteer unavailable due to system error”.

So when you turned - FSD got disengaged by TACC was still on ? This happens sometimes when I disengage with the steering wheel - then TACC refuses to move because it thinks there is a chance of collision. Looks like with 10.6 - the software is also crashing ... this happened to DirtyTesla too.

 

[j0shm1lls]

So when you turned - FSD got disengaged by TACC was still on ?

No, I also tapped the stalk up to disengage everything (including TACC) while the "red hands" was on the display.

 

[Twiglett]

I *think* (and @Twiglett can correct me if I'm wrong) that this was a case of the map causing FSD to take over when it was inappropriate. At present, with the dual stacks (AP/NOA vs FSD), the system relies on map data to choose if it should be in FSD mode (for city streets) or NOA mode (for freeways).

There are a few sections of freeway around me (all connector ramps between two freeways) where FSD takes over for a few hundred yards where it clearly shouldn't. In my case, this doesnt really make much difference, but I can see where this can be a serious problem as FSD could (e.g.) stop on a freeway.

yes you are exactly correct which I suppose is the problem with two stacks, it really does seem to have no situational pass thru between them.
I have to say I'd prefer it to stay dual stack until FSD can surpass the old AP

A lot of people have mentioned turning off the beta, but out of curiosity what’s the point of that?

When you’re on the freeway, the car switches to old AP/NoA behavior. How would that be any different?

The main reason is as alluded to by @drtimhill
Because the car switches between two stacks it seems to throw away everything it knows about the current situation during the switch. This usually happens when to gets to a road with >65mph limit then back again <60mph.
The main issue is that the outdated map data is telling the car that we aren't on a hwy any longer but instead on a side road approaching the highway at 90 degrees. Those side roads have 45mph limits, so it switches from old stack AP to new stack FSD. It also aggressively slows down and indicates right, then a fraction of a second later flips back to old AP and accelerates back to 65 - comfortable it is not
Like others I've created a profile that turns off FSD, mainly so I can choose a the full beta experience and something close to the pre-beta version.
I use the none-fed profile when I've got my family in the car and the FSD profile when I'm alone and know I'm going to engage FSD.
That way I can continue to provide snapshots of the crazy stuff and not get beaten about the head by my family.

 

[aronth5]

That way I can continue to provide snapshots of the crazy stuff and not get beaten about the head by my family.

I wonder what percentage of drivers like yourself don't even bother with FSD when a family member is with you especially spouses? I know I'm one.
Highway yes but city/residential streets not a chance

 

[jreed3728]

I wonder what percentage of drivers like yourself don't even bother with FSD when a family member is with you especially spouses? I know I'm one.
Highway yes but city/residential streets not a chance

I honestly have to say that for the most part, I use FSD all the time, even with others in the car. I do warn them that I might have to 'jerk' the car around to get control and that they should not worry about that. That is what a driver should do when things are going wrong - make a correction. If I get too many things going wrong on a drive (usually for me it is a forward collision warning for no reason) I will turn FSD off so that the occupants don't have to down a Xanax to be comfortable in the car. Plus, as I have gained experience with FSD, I usually know when things are likely to have an issue and just disengage to spare occupants trauma. I am getting requests from friends to experience FSD and Tesla so I have no problem taking them for a ride. I should say that I do not typically do any heavy city diving, so that may be part of the reason I'm not as concerned. As I have commented elsewhere, NoA often brakes for no reason when going 80mph in an HOV lane. That sometimes concerns me more because of traffic tailgating behind me.

 

[EVNow]

I wonder what percentage of drivers like yourself don't even bother with FSD when a family member is with you especially spouses? I know I'm one.
Highway yes but city/residential streets not a chance

My wife won't let me use TACC, let alone AP/FSD Beta.

But I've to say on some drives she won't know the difference if she is on the phone Yesterday I had a very smooth drive at night - handled the twisty hills roads with no problems. Only one intervention was to push the accelerator at a large round-about to get going.

 

[Oil Freedom]

It's a sizable chunk still on 10.5 (including me!), and I think (read: hope) they'll give us 10.7 (and skip 10.6.1) to compare results with 10.6.1 in parallel. They'd need to leave the 10.6.1 cars as-is for a period of time (hopefully brief).

I'm beginning to think that instead of A/B testing with 10.6.1 and 10.7, Tesla may upgrade all of the FSD Beta testers to 10.7 when it's ready to roll-out. The reason being that the difference between 10.5 and 10.6.1 is far smaller than the difference between 10.5. and 10.7. You know, "mind blowing"!

 

[drtimhill]

I wonder what percentage of drivers like yourself don't even bother with FSD when a family member is with you especially spouses? I know I'm one.
Highway yes but city/residential streets not a chance

I tend to only use it when I'm by myself because I want to totally focus on the safety aspects and dont want the distractions (though I do invite people along to watch/comment on FSD).

 

[drtimhill]

This morning on the way to work, FSD was making a left hand turn and it looked as though it was going to cut the corner too close, so I turned away and completed the turn. Immediately after completing the turn, the UI displayed the “Red Hands: Take over immediately” so I did, and then immediately after I saw the message “Autosteer unavailable due to system error”. The FSD UI was still displaying, however it only showed the lane lines and road edges, no other vehicles were displayed and there were clearly many around me that should have been displayed in the UI. It took roughly a minute or so, but as I was slowing down and the next light, the other vehicles surrounding me were once again displayed in the FSD UI. Either way I emailed the FSDBeta team.

EDIT: The car and I were never in any real danger, just another FSD Beta situation that had to be dealt with.

This has also happened to me (and others, such as Dirty Tesla) with FSD 10.6.1 .. it’s a crashing bug, which seems to get fixed with a soft reboot. However, its damn scary (though good to know that in the event of an FSD crash the car does trigger a fail safe take-over warning).

 

[Twiglett]

I wonder what percentage of drivers like yourself don't even bother with FSD when a family member is with you especially spouses? I know I'm one.
Highway yes but city/residential streets not a chance

for sure that
Early on SWMBO wouldn't tolerate AP at all, but as it got better and better she relaxed into it and it didn't concern her at all.
Now with vision based AP and definitely FSD I'm back to manual driving with her in the car. Just too many head bobbing slowdowns or panic take over immediately alarms from road shadows.
I really hope that from our efforts providing feedback that we may, in some small part, accelerate the process to get AP back where it was.

 

[Mardak]

I think partially visible side lines (and may be center line too) are going to be the issue

Ah yup, today it was slushier with only some sections melted, and FSD Beta seemed to have more trouble including the situation you described. There was a right edge line that was visible making the car stay to the left of it, but people were driving basically centered on top of that line because oncoming traffic was driving basically on top of where the double yellow lines would be.

Sometimes it's better to just follow the tracks made by earlier vehicles. Unclear if the path predictions are doing special behavior for construction zones, but in some sense the snow is similar in that painted lines should not be too strictly followed.

 

[Mardak]

From a couple of FSD snow drives I've watched it certainly doesn't appear FSD and snow covered roads get along well at all

Were those videos of highways or city streets? The speed control definitely isn't ready for snow, so stop and go would be a bit questionable.

At least my usage yesterday, I had already decreased the speed to 25mph matching other vehicles, and there's no intersections, so the main test was predicting the road edges, staying on the right side and steering through the curves. FSD Beta would also reduce the speed for curves but even when going straight when it was less sure.

 

[Nakk]

Looks like 10.7 is starting to roll out, probably these are just employees. Great news, looks like we're moving up to the 2021.40 build! I REALLY wanted waypoints. 2021.40.7 has rolled out to 18 Teslas on TeslaScope, most of which were on FSD Beta 10.5 previously. Given that it's a small roll out to cars on 10.5, I think it's likely this is Beta 10.7