The thing is, the subscription model is great for Tesla because it turns a bunch of zeros into $200 or $400 a year. And sure, it's not autonomous, but I can see how it's close enough for intestate road trips that folks not willing to spend $10K on a hope would be willing to spend $200 - $400 a year, year after year after year, for their family vacations and heavy driving months. So it's just another revenue stream 'free', that's all. If Elon were really smart he'd say something like 'Once you've spent $10,000 for the subscription model you can 'buy it forever' for another $1,500. Then tons of people would start subscribing on the basis that in the end they're just buying the full capability on time. If X number of people are willing to pay $200 just to have it for a month, X + Y people would be willing to buy it to have it for a month AND be making payments toward the full capability.
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MASTER THREAD: FSD Subscription Available 16 Jul 2021
- Thread starter Adirondack_D
- Start date
I assume you have Model Y? I have an early 2021 (really December 2020) Model X and I purchased FSD a month or so ago.
My impressions were similar, initially. My driving was (at first) just around town on surface streets, and FSD frightened me. Like what you said--I found myself quickly having to snatch back control at intersections and roundabouts. FSD seemed useless. But then, (a) I took the car on some longer trips using local freeways and state highways, and (b) I noticed that "autosteer on city streets" is still not here (figuratively, as well as literally) yet.
I am not trying to defend what is clearly not full-self driving yet--more like semi-autonomous driving or some sort of fancy cruise control at best. But now that I am beginning to understand its limitations FSD is, to me, helpful right now on freeways and major highways. The autosteer, lane change, traffic and stop-sign, and auto-braking features do appear to work, at least on high-speed highways. I feel like I am in training for true self driving to come. And that attitude may be key--it is not only the car (and its software) that must improve, it is me, the driver, who must also adapt (at this point) to what is clearly a beta product. I must continue to (safely) explore these features and understand where I need to add input and where I can (figuratively) sit back and give (partial) control over to the car. Finally, I choose to trust that low-speed driving around town will improve once "autosteer on city streets" is released. Does that make sense? Am I being naive?
Again, I fully understand the criticism around FSD. And the hesitancy to lease or purchase expensive FSD right now is totally understandable. But I am going to give the effort the benefit of the doubt, regard it as a glass half full, and wait for promised upgrades (while I continue to practice with the software and car I have). Hopefully, meaningful improvements will come soon. (But balance this upbeat attitude against my postscript comment.)
Postscript: I have not tried "Summon" or "Autopark" yet. (Honestly, I am a little scared to try them in my new car.) Quick story about Autopark, I test drove Model X in 2016. I clearly remember the salesperson, riding in the car as a passenger, greatly impressing me (the driver) with hands-free parallel parking five years ago (on surface streets near Dublin, California). And I can remember Mr. Musk at that time predicting that cars would soon be able to be summoned from your garage to pick you up in another city. I have to say I am disappointed that in some practical ways more significant progress on FSD has seemingly not been achieved since then, but the recent admission by Mr. Musk as to the challenge of self-driving is a telling remark.
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I don't have a Tesla yet, so I don't know some of this stuff. But if you were on a long road trip cruising down I-95 or whatever and were content to let it just sit in the right lane and follow the flow of traffic--no exits, no passing, just cruising with the flow of traffic following the car in front of you--how much confidence would you have in it? In that very simple use case is it 99% reliable as an autonomous vehicle?
I could see that it might already be better than a human if it has 24/7, 360 degree vision and reaction speed, because the only real threat there is another idiot essentially throwing themselves into you. And I can conceive at simple detection and avoidance of the other idiot it's probably already better than humans because it's 100% vigilant in 360 degrees. But I don't know that.
Another oddball question--will the Tesla initiate a honk if the idiot next to you is playing with a cell phone and starts drifting into you, something like that? In other words, is a warning honk it its bag of trick?
willow_hiller
Well-Known Member
Autopilot does exceed human ability in terms of following lane lines and keeping in-line with traffic. But at the end of the day, it's still just a computer following instructions. It lacks human creativity, and the ability to respond to novel situations that might arise spontaneously on a roadway.
So as long as you explicitly don't trust Autopilot, and maintain vigilance, your ability to think critically about situations on the road plus Autopilot's unblinking eye guarantees a safer experience than human driving alone.
Also a pro-tip for when/if you get a Tesla, choose the second from the right lane for long road trips. You get a smoother trip on Autopilot when you don't have to deal with the merging right-lane.
Your pro tip is to break the law?
Unless you Confirm with the stalk as it is asking yes it will stop at green lights. A simple flip the stalk or if your driving within a distance to a lead vehicle and it works perfectly. Been using it a year with never an issue. And it only works off GPS on the highway not side streets.
I'm assuming he means when there's three lanes. I'm a massive stickler about cruising in the left lane. After living 11 years in Europe where people actually know how to drive you can see how much better it makes it for everybody. Man, if I could be King for a day that's precisely what I'd do, I'd spend all day giving out tickets to people cruising in the left lane.
But even in Europe it's ok to cruise in the middle of three lanes. You avoid the on/off congestion, and you're staying out of the passing lane. It's a good cruising lane for everybody. And because no idiots are camping in the passing lane you can always pull out and around and get back. It's so, so much better.
I feel like it's a lot harder to say something bad about fsd when you paid 10k for it. I think now that everyone can try it for $200 we might see a lot of negative reviews in the forums.
Bigriver
Member
“Navigate on autopilot” is a specific term that currently refers only to highway driving, where it will take exits automatically to follow the navigation path. It will only make the automatic turns while on a highway.
When on “city streets” (which is Tesla’s term for anything that is not limited access highway), you can activate autopilot on most roads (except no residential without lines), but it will not make any turns onto another street. It can change lanes for you when you put on the turn signal on some 4 lane roads. It will not do anything on city streets based on whatever you have set in navigation. Not yet. Not until the wide release of “FSD Beta.”
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
MEANWHILE, BACK IN REALITY-
Tesla Model 3 On Pace To Have Best Resale Value Of Any Car Ever Tested
When people tell us they can't afford an EV, we point to the super-cheap used options available. However, used Tesla Model 3 sedans aren't on our list.
insideevs.com
Tesla Model 3 Three-Year Depreciation Is 10%: EV Industry Average Is 52%
While Tesla continues to get criticized for its cars' quality, they hold value incredibly well. Would people pay a premium if the cars were falling apart?
insideevs.com
Tesla Model 3 leads industry in value retention, barely loses any value after a year
Tesla Model 3 is leading the industry in value retention by barely losing any value after a year and half...
electrek.co
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EVNow
Well-Known Member
Then, you won't get it for $200 a month.
An analogy would be a robot vacuum cleaner vs a generic (sci-fi) robot that acts as your butler. A sci-fi butler will cost a lot more than a robot vacuum cleaner.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Assuming the residual value after 3 years is ~ 50% ? That is true (if we ignore financing costs).
So, good for leasing only if you want it for a few months or you didn't take FSD when you leased. So don't want to pay $10k for < 3years after leasing.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
Nissan said they will have 5 EVs within a couple of years .... 10 years back. It wsn't even something that nobody had/has achieved ...
It's 1.5 months depending on what you quoted. You chose the quote, not me.
Besides, we know the idea was to introduce city NOA (a.k.a FSD) and subscription together. But city NOA kept getting delayed ... and they decided to offer subscription without waiting for FSD, finally.
By the time regulation even allows that level of self driving, many things will have affected the price.
#1 being competition, which will drive the cost down, not up.
#2 being inflation. While price might go up, youll have more worthless monopoly money to afford it with.
Tesla is up against the curve now, and not the only fish in the tank.
ok thanks for the info. just tested on highway i95. navigate on autopilot is working there and as soon as it takes an exit it ends however im still confused about what im seeing on youtube with the screens that are showing colored lines (curbs) and the broken blue line in front of the car when people are driving on non highway roads and the car still making its own left and right turns onto different streets and seems to be fully navigating on its own to its destination without being on a highway. so far my screen hasnt shown any of that. many of these videos are uploaded recently. wondering if all of these users are using a different version like navigate on city streets beta trial or something as where the new subscription version is basically just enhanced auto pilot for now? my vehicle is a 2021 model 3 sr plus built in february. any thoughts?
We are all Beta testers for regular AP and the "release version" of FSD. What Tesla is calling Beta testers (Employee's that own Tesla's for the most part) are Alpha testers. My apologies if referring to us as Beta testers muddied the waters on the FSD subscription, I didn't mean to imply we would be getting the FSD Beta version of the software.
Keith
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Ummm, get some Coffee STAT! If your wifes MY lease would only add 126 a month by adding 10,000 to the cost then the lease must be 80 months. On an average 36 month lease adding 10,000 to the cost would increase the monthly payment by $278.
Keith
PS: If the price of FSD is lower when you lease than it is when you purchase then ignore my entire post
If this is the case, how much is it?
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