Measuring the panel gaps upon delivery

[holeydonut]

Showing up in a delivery center with a set of calipers or a feeler gauge just screams “I’m going to be THAT guy …” to everyone at the delivery center.

You do you, but don’t expect much cooperation from anyone at the SC …. Well, or me.

What do you really care about if someone wants to be “that guy” or not?

I know some customers want the sales person to help them set radio presets. Some customers get upset if they find crumbs in their foot wells. Some customers want service to install the wheel locks.

If you personally don’t care about these things, would it really harm you to just ignore the topics you don’t care for? Instead you feel it’s important to admonish and be an ass to drum up conflict.

obviously some people care about build quality and you don’t. So why don’t you just move on?

 

[cairn]

Showing up in a delivery center with a set of calipers or a feeler gauge just screams “I’m going to be THAT guy …” to everyone at the delivery center.

You do you, but don’t expect much cooperation from anyone at the SC …. Well, or me.

Meh I'll be that guy. Doesn't bother me. This isn't a snickers bar I'm buying at 7/11, I'll be anal about it if I want.

 

[TBrownTX]

Why don't you go into the MPG threads and tell people who obsess about MPG are misguided.

I've done this too, particularly in the Performance threads. Once does not buy a Performance and obsess about MPG.

Tim

 

[jjrandorin]

(Moderator note)

This is another one of those topics that people either "care a lot about" or dont care at all about and think others are obsessing about. Its also a topic that tends to bring specific types of responses and interactions.

While I am not going to tell people where to post, and what to comment on, I will say that, there are people who want to discuss this stuff, and they have a right to do so, without being made fun of by others who dont care about the topic.

I personally dont care much about this specific topic, but will defend others rights to discuss it if they want to.

@holeydonut

Normally, I would need to move the last post you made in this thread because its a bit over the line, however, I understand where the post was coming from, and what the frustration is from, so am not going to move it. I am, however, going to ask if you could dial it back a tad there.

For others who are posting in this thread to ridicule or otherwise make fun of those who want to discuss this topic, I would request that if you want to engage on this topic to do so respectfully. Just because there are those of us (like me, as I said) who dont really care about this topic, there are others for whom they do, and want to discuss it. They should be able to do so, if they want.

Thanks in advance for everyones consideration around this.

 

[dmurphy]

What do you really care about if someone wants to be “that guy” or not?

Honestly? Because I think it gives all Tesla owners a bad name. That’s why.

 

[dmurphy]

@holeydonut I want to apologize to you, directly, publicly.

@jjrandorin is right — we may differ in opinion, but you have every right to that opinion.

I overstepped here and I am sorry for that. Hope you can accept an apology for it.

 

[holeydonut]

(Moderator note)

This is another one of those topics that people either "care a lot about" or dont care at all about and think others are obsessing about. Its also a topic that tends to bring specific types of responses and interactions.

While I am not going to tell people where to post, and what to comment on, I will say that, there are people who want to discuss this stuff, and they have a right to do so, without being made fun of by others who dont care about the topic.

I personally dont care much about this specific topic, but will defend others rights to discuss it if they want to.

@holeydonut

Normally, I would need to move the last post you made in this thread because its a bit over the line, however, I understand where the post was coming from, and what the frustration is from, so am not going to move it. I am, however, going to ask if you could dial it back a tad there.

For others who are posting in this thread to ridicule or otherwise make fun of those who want to discuss this topic, I would request that if you want to engage on this topic to do so respectfully. Just because there are those of us (like me, as I said) who dont really care about this topic, there are others for whom they do, and want to discuss it. They should be able to do so, if they want.

Thanks in advance for everyones consideration around this.

Thanks @jjrandorin

I think for the most part people getting recent delivery of their Tesla’s are seeing good builds, so hopefully the banter about Tesla panel gaps stops in a few months/years as it becomes a non-issue. Personally, I'm happy with the results on my build. Even though some may think I was hunting for problems; I personally just wanted to measure and obtain data instead of eye-balling.


Thanks @dmurphy, I know the gaps is a nit item, but it's also an item I spent years on with the automakers, and this whole panel gap thing as was a win to make better. It was actually tough to get investment dollars into the machines at the factory to get panel gaps to a uniform level. I'm actually glad most people don't care about panel gaps, because it's the job of the professionals at the automaker to worry about. It's not supposed to be a worry item for the consumer.


Taking a random tangential trip down memory lane... I remember the head engineer on the car I was working on sticking his neck out there for $4mm of extra tooling and investment at one of the UAW plants to get laser measurements on panels. The business case was super easy the moment we put cars assembled in China, budget Kias, and some garbage rest-of-world market Civic next to a proudly assembled '06MY domestic car that was randomly picked from a dealer lot. All the gaps were so obvious as something to fix once decision makers saw how far ahead of the fit and finish game the competition had achieved.

Yeah, all this panel gap stuff is boring, but some of these folks take great pride in what they're building. Maybe they aren't building baller EV's all the time, but here are some people who do obsess over consistent 4mm gaps so the customer doesn't have to.

 

[FrankTheTank]

Not sure what the big deal is. Personally if I am going to buy a $50,000 brand new anything I want it to be perfect (or as close to reasonably perfect as possible). I assume the sales agents at Tesla would do the same thing when they are buying a very expensive X for themselves.

 

[WhiteWi]

Not sure what the big deal is. Personally if I am going to buy a $50,000 brand new anything I want it to be perfect (or as close to reasonably perfect as possible). I assume the sales agents at Tesla would do the same thing when they are buying a very expensive X for themselves.

Nothing is prefect my friend not even close to.

 

[Sparkypants]

While I am as much of a fan of Tesla as the next guy/gal/pal on here, I agree that if you're buying a $50k car that you are well within your right to complain about fitment and gaps if you encounter those issues... I recognize that Tesla is a relatively new car company BUT those types of issues are unacceptable on a car of that price. You're not buying a cheap commuter car here. It's reasonable to expect better quality control on a car that shares the same price tag as a low-mid luxury car.

 

[holeydonut]

Not sure what the big deal is. Personally if I am going to buy a $50,000 brand new anything I want it to be perfect (or as close to reasonably perfect as possible). I assume the sales agents at Tesla would do the same thing when they are buying a very expensive X for themselves.

While some people like crooked since they like things being sub par, you should at least strive for something that rivals a Chrysler or Ford at today's production quality.

While Tesla is shipping out some good product, there continue to be some sad examples of fitment and flushness that escape their factory and end up being delivered to customers. We see those examples in the delivery threads here on TMC and other online publications. One new production issue that popped up in the delivery master thread is bubbling/discoloration of the window glass. You may want to add that to the list to inspect before you hit 100 miles.

Since Tesla seems willing to shift the burden of measuring quality onto the customer, I think you'll have to take steps to identify your own issues and seek remedy from Tesla if you feel it's important.

 

[sbizzle]

While I am not going to take calipers for my pickup, I am going to point out any ridiculous looking off centered gaps and set up service. I don't plan on rejecting unless it seems too odd to say yes, guess I'll know when I get to that point. The general consensus is they will fix these things for you down the line as long as you set up service and point them out upon delivery if possible.

 

[holeydonut]

While I am not going to take calipers for my pickup, I am going to point out any ridiculous looking off centered gaps and set up service. I don't plan on rejecting unless it seems too odd to say yes, guess I'll know when I get to that point. The general consensus is they will fix these things for you down the line as long as you set up service and point them out upon delivery if possible.

I notice that positive trend in the recent posts for the delivery and panel gap thread. It seems when someone has identified something that seems amiss, the Tesla service center has taken the stance to attempt a fix. This is in contrast to some of the earlier reports from 2 years ago where Tesla would say "it's in spec" and just turn the customer away.

Good luck on getting a good build!

 

[rexki]

Having a gap of 5-7 mm and 2 mm on a door will cause it to not open properly - If you have low vision and don not care that is all fine by me.
Me personally knowing that fit and finish is an issue I will take a more measured approach.

 

[Unclepaul]

Panel gaps for Tesla are a FIA (Forum Induced Anxiety). People relate inprecise panel gaps with poor quality. Reality is that you can get a poorly designed and manufactured car with great panel gaps, as well as a great design and build, but with inconsistant panel gaps.

Some of the cars with the best panel gaps suffer from poor engine or transmission designs. The cars ride poorly, burn extra gas, leak oil, have lots of warranty claims or depreciate like crazy due to exaggerated selling prices.

My point is that while everyone wants the best panel gaps, others still get great cars with fantastic ownership experiences, but will not pass muster from a micrometer.

 

[dmurphy]

Having a gap of 5-7 mm and 2 mm on a door will cause it to not open properly - If you have low vision and don not care that is all fine by me.
Me personally knowing that fit and finish is an issue I will take a more measured approach.

Charts like this are the kind of nonsense that turn delivery specialists against us. If I had to deal with that kind of stuff at delivery, I’d be grumpy too. It’s a run of the mill car, not an airplane engine.

 

[holeydonut]

Having a gap of 5-7 mm and 2 mm on a door will cause it to not open properly - If you have low vision and don not care that is all fine by me.
Me personally knowing that fit and finish is an issue I will take a more measured approach.

Yeah this forum is unfortunately full of people that will tell you what you should care about because they’re insecure of their own willingness to downgrade their expectations. They like to brigade and snark any user who has higher expectations since they want to bring people down.

You’ll see people on TMC oddly claim that it’s a trade off… some weird logic that to get a great car, it’s expected to suffer gaps. Or somehow they have some bad logic that getting great panel gaps means the car was poorly designed.

The fallacy in this bad logic is that customers can expect both great design and build. And when they get both, that is the best experience.

It’s weird to see folks on TMC (enabled by the mods no less) go out of their way to tell people what they should care about. I do agree with the premise that the delivery folks don’t have the ability to remedy the gaps. So it’s likely an exercise in futility to deal with gaps at delivery. If you see something very off spec when you take delivery, make note of it, but don’t expect them to fix it that day.

From the narratives in the delivery threads, Tesla has been responsive with post-delivery repair for people who raise issues with discovered build issues. While some here may think you’re taking things too far with a measuring stick and ruler, if you do find an issue that you believe requires repair by all means submit a request using your measurement to cite why you think a repair is needed. I believe Tesla will address it if they can.

The caution is that if you measure a 4mm gap but think it should be 3mm… that may not be enough to get them to fix it since the mobile service people don’t have the tools necessary to make that precise. But if parts are kissing (rubbing) or things are way off, the evidence suggests they’ll try to make it right.

It does seem that most people on TMC receive a build that is ok/good, where a request for repair isn’t necessary.

But I had two mobile service people out to my house for various issues a few weeks ago. They said they do a ton of repairs for crooked headlights, doors that are rotated/off-flush, headliner mishaps, and trunk alignment.

Bottom line, eyeballing it should be enough to get Tesla out to fix any major finishing issues. But if you want measurements that’s your choice since it’s your money and your car.

 

[dmurphy]

But if parts are kissing (rubbing) or things are way off, the evidence suggests they’ll try to make it right.

…

Bottom line, eyeballing it should be enough to get Tesla out to fix any major finishing issues.

Completely agreed on both counts. Parts that rub, unacceptable. Parts that don’t pass the eyeball test, unacceptable. And overwhelmingly, Tesla makes those things right.

But graphing imperceptible measurements prior to delivery is just a bridge too far for me.

To each their own, but too much of that explains why some folks get “within spec, next!” as a response.

 

[holeydonut]

Completely agreed on both counts. Parts that rub, unacceptable. Parts that don’t pass the eyeball test, unacceptable. And overwhelmingly, Tesla makes those things right.

But graphing imperceptible measurements prior to delivery is just a bridge too far for me.

To each their own, but too much of that explains why some folks get “within spec, next!” as a response.

IMO, I kind of wish we had more consistent data being collected by people (after delivery) so we could see if the gap/flush/fit problem is getting better or worse.

Like we have spreadsheets showing order-to-delivery. We have monster spreadsheets showing interest rates on loans. We have threads assessing tires for wet/dry grip, road noise, etc. If you want to see something get better, you need to measure it.

But TMC for some reason is against taking measurements for something that is perceptible to (not all) many. I think the issue stems from the fact that anyone who wants to take measurements is made fun of by this forum.

One of the mobile techs I had out here said that he used to work assembly at Fremont. He noted that the Perf 3 that my wife got a few months ago looks really good compared to some of the other recent terri-builds he's had to fix after delivery this year. He was surprised how Fremont actually got the doors on this one without weird gaps.

He joked saying it's kind of good that customers have stopped caring about this gap stuff since they're all too busy complaining about how long it took for them to get their car.

One interesting thing to note is that the remote service tech said that when he was at Fremont, they used a tool similar to that one I posted about; but it had an extra curve-side specific to certain angles of the Model 3 for flushness. If you want the gap/flushness talk to die, the easiest way is for more people to take measurements; and for them to find nothing. Document those results, and objectively say the problem is gone.

Maybe we can convince Abstract Ocean to make one of these lol. The people who want to measure their builds can document their results.

Unfortunately based on the posts in the delivery threads, there are still some sub-par builds making it out of the factory. And it's up to individual customers to catch issues and seek remedy. Don't accept less for your hard earned dollars just because people like to make fun of others on the Internet.

 

[fishacura]

People obsessing about body panel gaps are missing the whole point about driving a Tesla. If it looks good and performs well the car should be accepted. Elon has mentioned that panel gaps should get better as they introduce more large castings instead of many smaller parts that need to be welded together.
There is no published spec for body parts gaps, just to put them together as well as you can in the time allotted. Some manufacturers are better at this than others. Tesla must deal with a millennial California workforce. Perhaps in Germany they have more precision oriented workers.

I don't think people who expect a certain degree of quality when shelling out $50k+ for a car are "missing" anything. That's a pretty minimal expectation.