Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 vs Pilot Super Sport - Opinions Please

[swegman]

The 19 inch TSportline turbine wheels look almost identical to the 21 inch Tesla turbine wheels. I replaced the 21 inch Tesla wheels with Michelin Pilots with the 19 inch TSportline wheels and the Michelin Pilot A/S 3 tires. I like the look of the low profile 21 inch tires, but feel that the 19 inch tires are a better fit for the DC area. The Tesla SC in this area also recommended that I switch to the 19 inch tires due to the roads here. You give up a little in traction compared to the Michelin Pilot, but only when you push the car to the extreme.

BTW, I originally had the Continental tires when I bought the car. They would lose traction and the car would hop when I floored the accelerator. I complained about this to Tesla and they swapped out the Continentals for the Michelin Pilots, which eliminated the problem. So, in my opinion, if you "downgrade" to the Continental tires from the Michelin Pilots, you might as well go to the 19 inch wheels with the Michelin Pilot A/S 3 tires, which is an ultra performance all season tire.

 

[HankLloydRight]

245/35ZR21 will work on a 9 in wheel; so, there is no need to replace the rear 21" wheel.

Wow. very interesting, thanks! What are the trade-offs/downsides with using a 245/35/21 on the 9" rims? Just less rubber and less grip hitting the road? Is anyone else around here doing this?

So given this new information, I may keep the 21" rims with Hankook Ventus V12 evo2 tires all around just for summer ($808 + mounting and balancing), and go with the Rials+Primacy for cold and winter months ($2500 all-in).

 

[gnelson]

I think the only downside is a smaller circumference and appearance. I believe the Pilot Super Sports are superior and about half the price. The Houston SC said they recently reduced the price of the PS2 to a little over $400.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I think the only downside is a smaller circumference and appearance. I believe the Pilot Super Sports are superior and about half the price. The Houston SC said they recently reduced the price of the PS2 to a little over $400.

Why would the circumference change if the front and rears are both 35s? Isn't the difference between the front and rears just width? (245 vs 265)? Also I'm pretty sure the circumference has to stay fixed or else lots of other bad things could happen.

I just priced PS2s today and they're still >$550 each in tirerack.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I asked these questions over in the Hankook thread, but haven't recevied any replies. If anyone can help, thanks in advance!

----
I'm sold on getting the 21" Hankook tires for my P85+ -- 245/35/21 all around.

But I have some simple questions for people who know more about tires than I do:

1. Above gnelsonposted that I can mount the 245/35/21s on the rear 21x9" Turbine rims. I just want to confirm that's not a problem before I move forward.
2. Given #1, are there any serious downsides/tradeoffs, besides just having slightly narrower rear tires with possibly less grip?
3. Does the toe-in settings for the P85+ need to be adjusted if I don't have the stock 265s on the rears? If so, how do I find out the correct settings for alignment?
4. What happens if I rotate the rims front-to-back, but they all have the same size tire? Is that kosher? (i.e. 8.5" rims on the rear and 9" rims on the front)

thanks.

 

[Asif]

I don't have any answers to questions you pose, but I just wanted to also chime in on how disappointed I am in the PS2 tires. I had all four tires replaced at the Tesla Service Center 3 weeks ago and have noticed the bulge on 2 of the 4 tires.

 

[zwede]

1. Above gnelsonposted that I can mount the 245/35/21s on the rear 21x9" Turbine rims. I just want to confirm that's not a problem before I move forward.
2. Given #1, are there any serious downsides/tradeoffs, besides just having slightly narrower rear tires with possibly less grip?
3. Does the toe-in settings for the P85+ need to be adjusted if I don't have the stock 265s on the rears? If so, how do I find out the correct settings for alignment?
4. What happens if I rotate the rims front-to-back, but they all have the same size tire? Is that kosher? (i.e. 8.5" rims on the rear and 9" rims on the front)

1. Yes.
2. No serious downsides. It will be a smaller diameter (~1/2"). Speedo will be slightly off. Might look wimpy.
3. No.
4. The 9" rim goes further in (both have the same 40mm offset). Not sure if there's something that will rub.

 

[HankLloydRight]

2. No serious downsides. It will be a smaller diameter (~1/2"). Speedo will be slightly off. Might look wimpy.

Yeah, I'm already fretting the wimpy part. I'm used to fat tires on most of the cars I've owned. But the $550/tire PS2s overrules the wimpy $202 Hankooks.

I noticed the revs per mile for the Hankooks is 727 versus 735 for the PS2s. Is that better or worse for range?

Also, with the .5" difference in Overall Diameter, will the speedo be slightly higher or lower, and by how much (I guess this is harder to answer).

 

[jerry33]

I asked these questions over in the Hankook thread, but haven't recevied any replies. If anyone can help, thanks in advance!

You have to be a bit patient

1. Above

gnelsonposted that I can mount the 245/35/21s on the rear 21x9" Turbine rims. I just want to confirm that's not a problem before I move forward.

Yes 9" is within the tolerances.

2. Given #1, are there any serious downsides/tradeoffs, besides just having slightly narrower rear tires with possibly less grip?

Wider does not equal more grip, except sideways. Forward and backward traction is better if the tire is narrower. (Assuming all things are equal, which they usually aren't.)

Tire RPMs are 749 vs. 762 which is a 1.7% gearing difference (higher). The Roadster is very particular about tire RPMs, the Model S appears to have a much wider range of happiness. 1.7% higher is not likely enough to cause the axles to snap (I think).

3. Does the toe-in settings for the P85+ need to be adjusted if I don't have the stock 265s on the rears? If so, how do I find out the correct settings for alignment?

No, you don't need an alignment change as far as I know. For street use the best settings seem to be as close to zero as possible without toe-out (in other words a slight bit of toe-in), and the rear camber should be as small as you can get it (about 1.5 negative is the smallest number I've heard).

4. What happens if I rotate the rims front-to-back, but they all have the same size tire? Is that kosher? (i.e. 8.5" rims on the rear and 9" rims on the front)

The handling will be slightly affected. However, you will likely only notice this on the track or in an emergency situation. Ideally, the tread width and the rim width should be equal. Don't know about the tire clearances.

 

[HankLloydRight]

You have to be a bit patient

I am impatient to begin with, and I really wanted to order and get the new tires before a road trip on Friday.

Thanks for your detailed reply. Just one question:

Tire RPMs are 749 vs. 762 which is a 1.7% gearing difference (higher).

According to Tirerack, the RPM for the Hankooks (245/35/21) is 727 and the RPM for the Pilot Sport PS2 (245/35/21) is 749, and the RPM for the Pilot Sport PS2 (265/35/21) is 735.

Where did 762 come from? So if I get this right, I'm comparing the 727 to the 735, which is only a 1.1% difference. I can't imagine that would cause any significant problems.


The Outside Diameter between the two sizes is just 1/2", so that shouldn't create too much of a visual difference. The tread width difference is greater, at 1.3". That's a big difference, about 15%! I sure am going to miss those fatties.

 

[jerry33]

Where did 762 come from?

I got both numbers from the Michelin site. As far as I know, the OE tire is 265/30R21, not 265/35R21. (Don't have P85+ so can't check and Tesla doesn't say on their site, so that's the size that was posted elsewhere).

 

[HankLloydRight]

OE on my P85+ is 265/35/21.

 

[jerry33]

OE on my P85+ is 265/35/21.

Thanks! With 245/35R21 tires (vs 265) the gearing will be slightly lower so it will be slightly quicker off the line and have a slightly lower top speed.

This kind of thing would be easier to get right if Tesla would just post the specs rather than saying 20 mm wider, or 21" tires.

 

[HankLloydRight]

Thanks! With 245/35R21 tires (vs 265) the gearing will be slightly lower so it will be slightly quicker off the line and have a slightly lower top speed.

That sounds good to me!! Around here, I'd be going to jail if I even approached the top speed. But faster off the line === FUN.

 

[Blathering1]

The staggered setup let us burn through rear tires, and leave the fronts relatively unscathed. Assuming we don't want to mix 9" PSS on the back with the 8.5" PS2s still on the front (has anyone?), what PSS are folks using for P85+ staggered setups, or are we still waiting on the 265/35ZR21 in PSS.

Actually, answering my own q, according to Michelin online, still no 265/35s yet, unless someone knows something different.

48747	295/25ZR21/XL 96 (Y)	$507	Limited Availability
03596	305/25ZR21/XL 98 (Y)	$558	Limited Availability
78354	245/30ZR21/XL 91 (Y)	$504	Inventory Available
14850	255/30ZR21/XL 93 (Y)	$447	Limited Availability
05969	265/30ZR21/XL 96 (Y)	$428	Limited Availability
48164	285/30ZR21/XL 100 (Y)	$445	Limited Availability
01604	295/30ZR21/XL 102 (Y)	$550	Inventory Available
66697	245/35ZR21/XL 96 (Y)	$367	Limited Availability
04064	235/30ZR22/XL 90 (Y)	$488	Limited Availability
19225	265/30ZR22/XL 97 (Y)	$520	Limited Availability

 

[zwede]

Tesla SC have lowered the price of the 265/35-21 Michelin PS2 to $440. I'll live with that until the 265 mm PSS is available.

 

[andrewket]

I haven't mixed PS2 with PSS yet, but I thought about it. When my current PS2s are done I'm going to go with non-staggered 245 PSS. They will mount on the 9" wheels.

 

[Owner]

Tires again for me… now replacing all 4. Had to replace the backs and went with PS2s. They lasted (and were rotated) only 13K and change. The continentals that were misaligned and not rotated on the back lasted 12.5K.

The local mechanic indicated that the continental will have longer wear. I'm thinking of going back to the continentals? Any thoughts?

 

[HankLloydRight]

I just got 4 21" Hankook Ventus V12 evo2 installed. I like them. Especially the price -- about $210 each.

I posted a bunch about them upthread.

 

[Mayhemm]

I just got 4 21" Hankook Ventus V12 evo2 installed. I like them. Especially the price -- about $210 each.

I posted a bunch about them upthread.

I take it you opted for a squared 245/35R21 setup this time around? Or do the Ventus V12's come in both P85+ sizes?