ℬête Noire
Active Member
Sorry Sage, you're on the wrong side of actual in field data here. Trying to wish it away with "driving style matters" and other red herrings isn't changing this.
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Mid range battery available now?
- Thread starter TurnFast
- Start date
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- Model 3 Tesla Inc.
I see this as being telegraphed for a while now:
1. After AWD came out Tesla mentioned that there was a surprisingly large uptake in AWD. Hard to tell at first if it was just because of pent up demand, but then AWD orders continued as a large percentage of new orders. This caused lead times to drop on RWD since everyone was ordering AWD.
2. Lots of mentions of supply constraints on the batteries from Panasonic. How Panasonic was working furiously to install new battery lines to meet demand and they were expecting them to be by year end.
3. Mentions that short range battery pack was some new really cost saving design
4. Lots of reservations supposedly just waiting for short range version
Taking all that into account they solve 3 of the above mentioned items by simply putting fewer cells in the existing pack design. It is more expensive for Tesla than the new and improved design in the short term, but increases demand for the RWD, saves on batteries and hopefully moves some of the reservation holders from reservations to sold.
If you want the $35k car now with a premium interior (40k total) given the tax incentive expiration, this gets the pricing pretty close.
My prediction: When short range RWD comes out the mid range will be discontinued.
1. After AWD came out Tesla mentioned that there was a surprisingly large uptake in AWD. Hard to tell at first if it was just because of pent up demand, but then AWD orders continued as a large percentage of new orders. This caused lead times to drop on RWD since everyone was ordering AWD.
2. Lots of mentions of supply constraints on the batteries from Panasonic. How Panasonic was working furiously to install new battery lines to meet demand and they were expecting them to be by year end.
3. Mentions that short range battery pack was some new really cost saving design
4. Lots of reservations supposedly just waiting for short range version
Taking all that into account they solve 3 of the above mentioned items by simply putting fewer cells in the existing pack design. It is more expensive for Tesla than the new and improved design in the short term, but increases demand for the RWD, saves on batteries and hopefully moves some of the reservation holders from reservations to sold.
If you want the $35k car now with a premium interior (40k total) given the tax incentive expiration, this gets the pricing pretty close.
My prediction: When short range RWD comes out the mid range will be discontinued.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Unless you know a CdA different than what is published, the facts have not succumbed to fake news.
By the way, what is the argument here ? I agree that the Model 3 out-performs the Model 3 range - wise compared to EPA ratings; I'm just pointing out that it is due to a lower CdA that shows up more at the speeds Americans usually travel.
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
I think that this makes the unknown assumption that the new MR will also get the same range "sandbag" treatment that Tesla did with the RWD LR. We don't know this and if they truly build a reduced cell count pack, per Elon's tweet, the reduced weight certainly gives them margin to NOT sandbag the EPA numbers at all. This would translate to 22% to 25% reduction IMO.
You think that Tesla has a bunch of LR RWD that they can't get rid of and their solution to the problem is to remove that configuration from the ordering choices???
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
Several have said it ... This is just reading the market, brilliantly, to maximize sales and profit. Tesla knows that there are lots of buyers on the sideline waiting for the 35K model. When posed with the opportunity to get a bigger (MR) battery where the 2018 tax rebate is double the 2019 tax rebate and you can justify getting that increased range at a shared cost with the government (or tax payers), some to many will take that offer. It has minimal impact on the production line and therefore helps maintain margins. Quite brilliant since they aren't ready for the SR yet.
FWIW I am still VERY pleased with my LR RWD purchase. No whining or regrets here.
FWIW I am still VERY pleased with my LR RWD purchase. No whining or regrets here.
I'd agree, the only thing Tesla is consistent about when it comes to the car stats is that they will do everything in their power to enforce the market segmentation they want.
Examples:
1. Performance cars show 0-60 times with rollout subtracted, while non performance do not, making performance segement more appealing.
2. Model 3 LR range was sandbagged vs actual EPA results to make the more expensive AWD trims look as if there was no range penalty. This also served to make the Model S 100D look like the top dog in range, when in fact the Model 3 LR has the same range.
Based on this I'd expect the Model 3 MR range not to be sandbagged at all.
Glamisduner
Active Member
Oh I still have a few more hours, I thought it was 2 day returns. I could return it and wait for another one without issues and get $500 off?!?
insaneoctane
Well-Known Member
I haven't looked at all the details, but on their prior love-it-or-return-it policy they had a stipulation that you couldn't buy another from the same car family (S or X) for a year.
Glamisduner
Active Member
hah, that makes sense. I wasn't really going to go through the hassle of returning it. It's just annoying that everything kept getting more expensive while I had to wait to order, then after many delays, but still immediately after I order, the white interior not only becomes available on the cheaper model, but costs $500 less. Still I like the idea of free supercharging, but I'll have to keep the car for years to make up that $500 difference. For me the convenience of charging at home outweighs saving a few bucks at the supercharger but having to wait. Plus it's harder on the battery right?
I mean yes and no. I was trying to convince my dad to buy the LR. He really needed the range. Now there won’t be a car with 334 miles of range any longer. He’s in EuropeElon said already it wasn’t software limited. Also the weight is different between 3MR and 3LR.
So no. You are wrong but I’m sure you were glad to be proven wrong.
I kept a reservation holding on to SR but it only took me seconds to do the math and saw it as only paying 1250 or so for PUP and more range.
@mattjs33 - forget used LR - this is your car.
Glamisduner
Active Member
It could come back when the SR model is released. I don't think the MR model is going to stay. It was just a clever way to drop the price without retooling to drum up more business before the tax credit goes away.
It's just $500 man.. Also do note that when white interiors first came out, it was supply limited, so it was more expensive. Now they have more supply, they're able to sell them cheaper as a way to attract buyers.
But you are pretty much cherry picking when it comes to prices of things. Not everything got cheaper. Paint was cheaper before, now it's more expensive. AWD trim was cheaper, then it got more expensive, then changed again, etc.. Same with EAP & FSD options. Just saying, you don't seem happy...and you're one of the very few that I know complain about free supercharging for life (something nobody else can get now).
This exactly. I’m surprised that more people haven’t commented on production limitations. Tesla and all other EVs will almost always be battery-limited, with brief periods where other components are in short supply (drive units, body panels, paint, robots, falcon wing doors, or whatever). I think that right now Tesla can produce more total vehicles by reducing battery size and drive units. They previously “moderately” overbuilt the battery production line for a while, and were limited by drive units, so only offered RWD, then later offered AWD once production increased. Now they have closely matched AWD/RWD, and likely improved another critical path limit (I’m guessing the paint since they changed prices on that a while back), so are now back to being battery-limited. In 2019, who knows. Ultimately, they will continue scaling all processes for the next 5-10 years (adding T, R, Y, SX refresh, motorcycle, bicycle, or whatever, etc.) tweaking pricing to drive demand away from the limiting components and towards the non-limited components.
No change to cost/margins by removing the option to pre-purchase FSD. All the same hardware that was present when pre-purchasing FSD is still there, it's used for EAP if you buy it and for active safety systems (AEB, etc). Since they don't recognize the deposits for features outstanding (FSD, before EAP v9 some portion of EAP payments), it doesn't hurt their "revenue" to stop selling FSD since it was just growing a number on the balance sheet that didn't contribute yet to the bottom line.
Everyone knows they software locked motor output like
PERFORMANCE Y/N
Software locking batteries is a whole nother animal. Spending money on cells that no one uses and abuses usage by charging 100%? No thanks. Tesla did it once and they won't do it again.
I agree with your last paragraph. It's coming off as a troll statement but it makes sense. LOL
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
This is incorrect.
Anyone buying FSD now gets free hardware upgrades (that they've already said will be needed).
By removing the option they're going to get to charge future buyers actual price instead.
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