Might order my 3 soon, very begrudgingly.

[MXWing]

Right. Tesla has used the words "mass market" NUMEROUS times to describe the Model 3, such as at the below:
Elon Musk | Tesla
Press Kit | Tesla
The Mission of Tesla
Compare Model S and Model 3 | Tesla

In another forum (you'll need a free account to see it), a BMW driver there mentions that BMW sells about 1/2 million 3-series (when it was still made) per year worldwide: https://www.tivocommunity.com/commu...a-model-3-thread.522634/page-18#post-10839627. That sounded about right when I confirmed it back then.

BMW Group produces 10 million BMW 3 Series Sedans mentions 14 million made of the 3-series back in 2015.

It's marketing. DUH. Can't you read the situation and look at the content of the book versus the cover of the book? Relative to the S and, X - the 3 is mass market. Mass market to the level of a Dodge Caravan? NO.

BMW will also never be selling half a million 3 Series again. Tesla is going to put an end to that.

That's fine by me. I've seen Tesla's past history in terms of reliability. It would've surprised me if it were good. Six months would've been way too early anyway. Not interested in giving Tesla a $1K interest free loan not held in escrow at this point now nor any time before.

I already knew I could be waiting a LONG time and was fine with that. I still am.

You can keep waiting forever. God forbid you own a Tesla, start driving one rather than complain about something you have no practical experience in.

Don't flatter yourself with the $1K interest free loan which would get you $50 over 2 years. Tesla burns $8000/minute. They don't need your $1,000 and they don't need to be selling $35,000 cars at a loss when they can sell every $70,000 car they make. Just need to build out that PAWDLR Model 3.

You keep using that word but I'm not sure you know what it means. You sure like attacking people, don't you?

There's something to be said when it comes to making claims in the auto industry and then being so far off over and over. Companies and executives can get into trouble for fraud or find themselves the target of the SEC and/or lawyers. If Tesla stock tanks big time and stays down, I expect the lawyers to start showing up.

It's "entitlement" to expect a company to live up to their claims and self-imposed timelines?

You don't even have a deposit yourself but you are white knighting for people already in the wrong expecting Tesla to shoot themselves in the head for their self centered benefit.

Tesla isn't actually selling $49K cars instead of $35K cars. They are selling $55K cars.

Economic Study: If Model 3 was NOT for resale, did you purchase EAP?

You are acting like I can buy a i-Pace, find out it's going to take me 6 months to road trip from CA to NY based on Jaguar calling it a 'Tesla killer'. Think I can sue them?

Or can I sue Jaguar for showing a misleading vehicle of an iPace beating a Model X when one has a 3rd row and one doesn't?

The challenge of dealing with entitled people is they think their entitlement is normal. Only a bigger whiner than they are is "entitlement".

Do you, or have you at any point actually owned a Tesla? I have a feeling I'm talking to a virgin explaining to me how kids are made.

 

[Runt8]

There are 150,000+ Tesla owners in front of non owners. In theory, those 150,000 owners would have first crack at the Model 3 before anyone else.

If there was a 27.5K Tesla option 150,000 of those would be sold first.

You are getting Model 3 # 12,500 as an example due to existing owners passing. They want AWD, they want P, they want AWD+SR, etc.

You would get Tesla Model 3 # 140,000 if the 27.5K option was available day 1.

Unless you have some inside information I've never seen before, it seems like you missed the largest group - Tesla owners who don't have a reservation. I've never seen an official breakdown of how many of the 500,000 reservations were made by prior owners, but I have a hard time believing it's 150,000.

Not that I disagree with most of what else you said - this thread is one of the more absurd I've seen on this site (not surprisingly, started by someone with three of the most disagreed with threads on this site).

 

[MXWing]

Unless you have some inside information I've never seen before, it seems like you missed the largest group - Tesla owners who don't have a reservation. I've never seen an official breakdown of how many of the 500,000 reservations were made by prior owners, but I have a hard time believing it's 150,000.

Not that I disagree with most of what else you said - this thread is one of the more absurd I've seen on this site (not surprisingly, started by someone who started three of the most disagreed with threads on this site).

Part of the thesis would have involved day 1 availability of $35,000 Model 3. I think its a safe assumption that prior owners would pick up a $27,500 Tesla first and then figure out what to do with it next.

It becomes harder to do a random purchase at $49,000+

 

[KJD]

It's marketing. DUH. Can't you read the situation and look at the content of the book versus the cover of the book? Relative to the S and, X - the 3 is mass market. Mass market to the level of a Dodge Caravan? NO.

BMW will also never be selling half a million 3 Series again. Tesla is going to put an end to that.



You can keep waiting forever. God forbid you own a Tesla, start driving one rather than complain about something you have no practical experience in.

Don't flatter yourself with the $1K interest free loan which would get you $50 over 2 years. Tesla burns $8000/minute. They don't need your $1,000 and they don't need to be selling $35,000 cars at a loss when they can sell every $70,000 car they make. Just need to build out that PAWDLR Model 3.



You don't even have a deposit yourself but you are white knighting for people already in the wrong expecting Tesla to shoot themselves in the head for their self centered benefit.

Tesla isn't actually selling $49K cars instead of $35K cars. They are selling $55K cars.

Economic Study: If Model 3 was NOT for resale, did you purchase EAP?

You are acting like I can buy a i-Pace, find out it's going to take me 6 months to road trip from CA to NY based on Jaguar calling it a 'Tesla killer'. Think I can sue them?

Or can I sue Jaguar for showing a misleading vehicle of an iPace beating a Model X when one has a 3rd row and one doesn't?

The challenge of dealing with entitled people is they think their entitlement is normal. Only a bigger whiner than they are is "entitlement".

Do you, or have you at any point actually owned a Tesla? I have a feeling I'm talking to a virgin explaining to me how kids are made.

Rude and condescending and just uncalled for. He may not own a Tesla, but he has driven EV's for years and he has every right to voice his opinion on this forum.

 

[MXWing]

Rude and condescending and just uncalled for. He may not own a Tesla, but he has driven EV's for years and he has every right to voice his opinion on this forum.

Thanks for confirming what I suspected at a high confidence level to be true. No one said he couldn't voice an opinion. Just well.. when you make 1500 posts on a Tesla forum, most of them disparaging Tesla one has to color this into consideration and evaluate the motivations.

He can post what he wants, but if hes wrong - I have a right to respond.

It's no secret, I don't like Bolts and Chevy couldn't give one to me. They practically tried. I don't spend time repeatedly discussing how crappy Bolts are and GM Bolt business models to Bolt owner forums.

If I did, my motivation would have to come into play and rightfully so. What would that motivation be? Get my jollies off knocking on Bolt owners?

While I would have the same right to troll them as much as I want. 15,000 posts worth, I might.. maybe just might get called on it for not being a Bolt owner. I don't see that as unreasonable.

It's disingenuous to come across as a voice of authority when you have no practical experience or ownership in the subject at hand. (TESLA)

Edit:
Let's see if you can debate in addition to clicking a mouse. I also have owned EVs for years as well, and currently have a Volt which is getting turned into a Model 3 once my config hits.

 

[Surfer]

You gonna sue Elon for damages, emotional pain & suffering and loss of a companion for not having your $35,000 Model 3 in your hands already?

As I posted here, Tesla is not going to inflict self harm to assuage your sense of entitlement.

Economic Study: If Model 3 was NOT for resale, did you purchase EAP?

It’s not entitled to expect a company to do what they say they will do. It’s extremely entitled to use a bunch of line waiters and their $1k as pawns to dramatically increase your stock price when you have no clue how to deliver a car at the price quoted.

How come YOU defend the entitlement of billionaires to mislead consumers for profit?

Tesla was a few weeks from projected deliveries of the $35k car. Does anyone have a shred of evidence that up until the 9 month delay that Tesla did anything specific to prepare for those deliveries? Like interior trim pieces that were not premium, ordered in volume?

The way they dropped the information of the delay shows total entitlement on the part of Tesla. It was done at a time and in conjunction with other events to help mask the pulling of the $35k car off the table for imminent delivery.

Entitlement accusation against harmed consumers is total BS.

Deliver the car Elon or some attorney please start a class action. I would find the documents produced on discovery fascinating. What preparations if any were done to deliver the $35k version of the car before the 9 month delay.

Is there a shortage of less batteries? Or steel roofs, Or non open pore wood trim?

Elon is entitled. And he deserves a massive lawsuit.

 

[Surfer]

It’s not entitled to expect a company to do what they say they will do. It’s extremely entitled to use a bunch of line waiters and their $1k as pawns to dramatically increase your stock price when you have no clue how to deliver a car at the price quoted.

How come YOU defend the entitlement of billionaires to mislead consumers for profit?

Tesla was a few weeks from projected deliveries of the $35k car. Does anyone have a shred of evidence that up until the 9 month delay that Tesla did anything specific to prepare for those deliveries? Like interior trim pieces that were not premium, ordered in volume?

The way they dropped the information of the delay shows total entitlement on the part of Tesla. It was done at a time and in conjunction with other events to help mask the pulling of the $35k car off the table for imminent delivery.

Entitlement accusation against harmed consumers is total BS.

Deliver the car Elon or some attorney please start a class action. I would find the documents produced on discovery fascinating. What preparations if any were done to deliver the $35k version of the car before the 9 month delay.

Is there a shortage of less batteries? Or steel roofs, Or non open pore wood trim?

Elon is entitled. And he deserves a massive lawsuit.

I would be happy to be part of that lawsuit. Any attorney is welcome to contact me.

 

[Surfer]

Roughly 90 percent of previous Tesla owners deferred on the first production build. They either want a 35k toy Model 3 or AWD or a P Model 3.

I have two outstanding reservations. If the 35K option was available, you would be looking at 80 percent adoption rate. You wouldn’t even be close to a Model 3 right now because the first 160,000 or more would be going to owners.
Existing owners could live without EAP on a toy purchase so Tesla would be out 20K per car across 160000 cars. That is a lot of money left on table and it would kill them.

A dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow.

Going to kill them? They are a public company, WTF didn’t they know it was going to kill them before they made their pronouncements?
Exaggerating is what Elon does it’s some green washed version of the sh** show we have a for a president. Elon also as a revolving door on his executives. The Musk/Trump parallels are a little startling.

 

[Surfer]

It's marketing. DUH. Can't you read the situation and look at the content of the book versus the cover of the book? Relative to the S and, X - the 3 is mass market. Mass market to the level of a Dodge Caravan? NO.

BMW will also never be selling half a million 3 Series again. Tesla is going to put an end to that.



You can keep waiting forever. God forbid you own a Tesla, start driving one rather than complain about something you have no practical experience in.

Don't flatter yourself with the $1K interest free loan which would get you $50 over 2 years. Tesla burns $8000/minute. They don't need your $1,000 and they don't need to be selling $35,000 cars at a loss when they can sell every $70,000 car they make. Just need to build out that PAWDLR Model 3.



You don't even have a deposit yourself but you are white knighting for people already in the wrong expecting Tesla to shoot themselves in the head for their self centered benefit.

Tesla isn't actually selling $49K cars instead of $35K cars. They are selling $55K cars.

Economic Study: If Model 3 was NOT for resale, did you purchase EAP?

You are acting like I can buy a i-Pace, find out it's going to take me 6 months to road trip from CA to NY based on Jaguar calling it a 'Tesla killer'. Think I can sue them?

Or can I sue Jaguar for showing a misleading vehicle of an iPace beating a Model X when one has a 3rd row and one doesn't?

The challenge of dealing with entitled people is they think their entitlement is normal. Only a bigger whiner than they are is "entitlement".

Do you, or have you at any point actually owned a Tesla? I have a feeling I'm talking to a virgin explaining to me how kids are made.

Virgin? It’s better than being the opposite on Tesla’s behalf. LMAO. AND ATTACKING consumers that HAVE BEEN harmed.

 

[MXWing]

I would be happy to be part of that lawsuit. Any attorney is welcome to contact me.

No damages, no tort. You are free to cancel your Model 3 reservation. In fact, you had almost a year or even longer. If you have such a strong case, you can start the class action yourself.

Or is this all talk and no game?

Seems you are not complete disgusted as you are STILL HERE. Even after Tesla COULDNT FIND YOUR CAR.

 

[Surfer]

Going to kill them? They are a public company, WTF didn’t they know it was going to kill them before they made their pronouncements?
Exaggerating is what Elon does it’s some green washed version of the sh** show we have a for a president. Elon also as a revolving door on his executives. The Musk/Trump parallels are a little startling.

March 16th 2018


I took a lot of flak for my posts, the number of news articles comparing Musk to Trump are stacking up, though I did not read any before my post.

Here is an opinion piece today in the "FAKE" New York Times comparing Trump and Musk:

"He’s sold himself as an establishment-crushing iconoclast when he’s really little more than an unusually accomplished B.S. artist"

Opinion | Elon Musk, the Donald of Silicon Valley

And also a settled lawsuit on the over promising for V2 AP:

https://gizmodo.com/tesla-agrees-to-settle-class-action-suit-over-essential-1826347101

There is also a shareholder lawsuit, yep not at all like Trump

I think Tesla lost their way when they installed AP in cars. There is something guiding Elon Musk, but it is definitely not saving the planet.

Here are some likely future, present or past facts:
1. $35K Model 3 was/is a scam. First it was delayed for simplicity, now it is delayed for not financially feasible? Up until early this year my cancelled reservation said I could get that car in a month or two. Why give a projection, that they know is not financially feasible?
2. Solar City buyout was a scam.
3. Specs on Tesla Semi, impossible.
4. AP 1, 2 and 2.5 installation was a safety scam.
5. Full autonomy not happening anytime soon scam.
6. Super Chargers will become a not become a profit center-scam.
7. Trade in values are scam.


Disagree with me all you want, but doesn't this all seem very obvious?

 

[vinnie97]

To paraphrase a certain president, it's sad that you have to necrobump a thread that hasn't had any activity for over 2 months and then quote your own post to make some kind of point that supports your preconceived bias. Let the TDS (and EDS) flow through you, though. I couldn't care less about an NYT editorial, which of course isn't the least bit biased in any particular direction. /s I'd be the least bit more concerned about the eruption in your backyard than how Elon is ruining your life.

To revert this back to the topic at hand: As for #6, how are superchargers becoming a profit center pray tell?

 

[jelloslug]

March 16th 2018


I took a lot of flak for my posts, the number of news articles comparing Musk to Trump are stacking up, though I did not read any before my post.

Here is an opinion piece today in the "FAKE" New York Times comparing Trump and Musk:

"He’s sold himself as an establishment-crushing iconoclast when he’s really little more than an unusually accomplished B.S. artist"

Opinion | Elon Musk, the Donald of Silicon Valley

And also a settled lawsuit on the over promising for V2 AP:

https://gizmodo.com/tesla-agrees-to-settle-class-action-suit-over-essential-1826347101

There is also a shareholder lawsuit, yep not at all like Trump

I think Tesla lost their way when they installed AP in cars. There is something guiding Elon Musk, but it is definitely not saving the planet.

Here are some likely future, present or past facts:
1. $35K Model 3 was/is a scam. First it was delayed for simplicity, now it is delayed for not financially feasible? Up until early this year my cancelled reservation said I could get that car in a month or two. Why give a projection, that they know is not financially feasible?
2. Solar City buyout was a scam.
3. Specs on Tesla Semi, impossible.
4. AP 1, 2 and 2.5 installation was a safety scam.
5. Full autonomy not happening anytime soon scam.
6. Super Chargers will become a not become a profit center-scam.
7. Trade in values are scam.


Disagree with me all you want, but doesn't this all seem very obvious?

I think you need to read up on what the word "scam" means.

 

[SageBrush]

Disagree with me all you want, but doesn't this all seem very obvious?

No

 

[Finder]

I am fairly certain you will not like the model 3 once it is delivered. Better to get your deposit money back and move on to something else where you feel you aren't being ripped-off. Attitude is everything.

Gotta agree here. If you are not excited about it, don’t buy it. No fun if you are not excited.

 

[Surfer]

To paraphrase a certain president, it's sad that you have to necrobump a thread that hasn't had any activity for over 2 months and then quote your own post to make some kind of point that supports your preconceived bias. Let the TDS (and EDS) flow through you, though. I couldn't care less about an NYT editorial, which of course isn't the least bit biased in any particular direction. /s I'd be the least bit more concerned about the eruption in your backyard than how Elon is ruining your life.

To revert this back to the topic at hand: As for #6, how are superchargers becoming a profit center pray tell?

Cost per KWH at Washington State supercharger is $0.25. Cost for electricity in WA state is about $0.08. I expect more increases as well.

 

[vinnie97]

If only that was the sole cost vector to building and maintaining superchargers. Tesla bleeds cash if you hadn't noticed. Supercharger buildout is but one component of that.

 

[Surfer]

I think you need to read up on what the word "scam" means.

1.Scam:
a dishonest scheme; a fraud.
"an insurance scam"
synonyms: fraud, swindle, fraudulent scheme, racket, trick;
pharming;
informalcon, hustle, flimflam, bunco, grift, gyp, shakedown
"the scam involved a series of bogus investment deals"

Fraudulent Scheme applies. "And of course it will be $35,000.00" -Elon Musk.

 

[Surfer]

If only that was the sole cost vector to building and maintaining superchargers.

I agree it isn't the only cost. Lets see how much cheaper the no profit Tesla Super Chargers are compared to the for profit networks by VW, etc. It will become a profit center. Another lie or scam.

 

[vinnie97]

Gotta agree here. If you are not excited about it, don’t buy it. No fun if you are not excited.

The OP had to eat crow, seems he's a happy M3 owner after all.