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Miles per kWh

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We're in the process of buying a new house for the Tesla (and for us) that has 2 meters -- one for the electric charging station (current owner has EV) and one for rest of house. I like that system because then I will always know how much energy went into car.
 
I have had the car for about 3 weeks now. In that time, I have driven 580.8 miles. According to the trip meter in the car, that is 236.2 kWh of energy consumed at an average of 407 Wh/mi. The meter on my line reads 311 kWh of energy consumed for a real average of 535.5 Wh/mi. The car is in an underground garage at night where the temperature is about 55 degrees. But during the day, it has been parked outside where the temperature has been ranging from 19 - 30 degrees. So the battery pack has had to heat up each time.
 
Unfortunately I got waylaid a bit when one of the torsion springs on my garage door decided to break last week, and had to spend a couple of hours today pulling out the old springs and tensioning up some new ones (don’t try this at home unless you know what you are doing….good way to break an arm, or your noggin…)

I'll do a lot of things around the home, but when I realized how much energy is stored in those garage door torsion springs, I called a garage door company when mine broke a couple of years ago.

I’m using a four-channel HOBO data logger which will record voltage, current and the air temperature at the floor of the garage (so I can get a temp reading at the level of the battery pack).

That's very cool. I'll just be adding another MTU to my TED setup, but having temperature as well will give some good insights into seasonal consumption patterns.
 
I really wish Tesla would just do this in the car itself. I'm far more interested in the car telling me about its "energy profile and history" than about the ability to browse the web. I realize the web support is flashier, and thus why they were motivated to implement it first.

The EV manufacturers are also less interested in telling us how much energy actually came out of the wall, since that exposes the inefficiencies in the charging loop as well as losses from battery balancing, and the omnipresent "vampire" loads. Much better to market the kWh/mile drawn from the battery only....
 
The EV manufacturers are also less interested in telling us how much energy actually came out of the wall, since that exposes the inefficiencies in the charging loop as well as losses from battery balancing, and the omnipresent "vampire" loads. Much better to market the kWh/mile drawn from the battery only....
Hopefully Tesla will show itself to be above such shallow tactics.

Also, such an approach is penny-wise but pound-foolish.

The intelligent company sells me (and everyone I talk to) on the brand, not on a single vehicle. Trust, loyalty, integrity builds lifelong customer retention.
 
The EV manufacturers are also less interested in telling us how much energy actually came out of the wall, since that exposes the inefficiencies in the charging loop as well as losses from battery balancing, and the omnipresent "vampire" loads. Much better to market the kWh/mile drawn from the battery only....

I don't believe there is a nefarious intent to deceive; however as a rule, EPA and manufacturer claims for fuel efficiency are often under ideal and unrealistic conditions. Tesla’s own claim of 300 miles is qualified by saying at 55 MPH on flat roads with no HVAC etc. (they are clear about this). Similarly, ICE fuel efficiency ratings are often hard to achieve, and I believe Toyota got a bit of heat over Prius MPG claims.

I really just want a mechanism to recording and verifying my own “fuel” consumption over time and under various conditions. I record every drop of fuel and every mile driven in my current ICE vehicles and log same into a database app I have on my phone. It would be nice if Model S had some mechanism for reporting how many kWhs flow in through the port, because the data points I may be missing is consumption from chargers other than my plug at home.
 
Similarly, ICE fuel efficiency ratings are often hard to achieve, and I believe Toyota got a bit of heat over Prius MPG claims.
And it cost Hyundai and Kia more than a few shekels to settle their MPG claims.

But to your main point, @mknox, it is a shame that a car with the technology of the Model S doesn't provide owners with a log of all these details.
 
I really just want a mechanism to recording and verifying my own “fuel” consumption over time and under various conditions.... It would be nice if Model S had some mechanism for reporting how many kWhs flow in through the port, because the data points I may be missing is consumption from chargers other than my plug at home.
Perhaps after you get some data points from your home TED, you will be able to extrapolate how much extra to add for the amount of extra juice lost between the plug and the battery when you charge elsewhere.
 
Perhaps after you get some data points from your home TED, you will be able to extrapolate how much extra to add for the amount of extra juice lost between the plug and the battery when you charge elsewhere.

I have a Chevy volt and a ted5000 (and a p16,4xx reservation). The conversion efficiency is pretty consistent. 240v charging is about 85% efficient (12.5kwh metered to recharge 10.6kwh for the battery). At 120v it is around 80% efficient.
 
I don't believe there is a nefarious intent to deceive; however as a rule, EPA and manufacturer claims for fuel efficiency are often under ideal and unrealistic conditions.

More correctly, they are using a set of repeatable conditions. Why they didn't use an index like the UTQG does is beyond me--someone really messed up there. By using MPG they are just begging for trouble because one number can't possibly work for all conditions. However, an index works for everyone because if you have an index of 100 and another of 150, it's very likely the 150 will get 50% more than the 100.
 
More correctly, they are using a set of repeatable conditions. Why they didn't use an index like the UTQG does is beyond me--someone really messed up there. By using MPG they are just begging for trouble because one number can't possibly work for all conditions. However, an index works for everyone because if you have an index of 100 and another of 150, it's very likely the 150 will get 50% more than the 100.
However, It's nice to see the degredation in mileage that occurs in the winter test; although, they should really test at a much lower temperature. For most of us, this is our worst case scenario, and we need to make sure that our daily commute is less than that, if we want to be able to drive the car in the dead of winter.
 
I got a 78.9% "wall to battery" efficiency this week.

Data from my home power monitor:

  • Charging Duration (minutes): 253.5
  • Average kW to Model S during charge: 9.632
  • Total kWh drawn by Model S during charge: 40.697

Data from car (since prior charge):

  • Miles: 101.4
  • kWh (from battery): 32.1

Wall to car charging efficiency: 78.9%


Conditions:

  • Ambient temperature during charging: upper 60s (deg F)
  • This charge and prior charge both done at standard charge level (not max range)
  • Charging from a 240V 40A line
  • 85 kWh battery

Raw data is attached for anyone else interested in crunching on it.
View attachment ChargeCycle67DegCorrected.xlsx
 
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I'm seeing some strange charging rates and trying to see why it would change based on amps selection in the car.
Kwh used from battery approx 11 but SCE is saying for the charging period it used over 22 kwh. I lowered the amps down to approx 15 to take advantage of the low rate period at night. 2 nights ago I set it for a normal 40 amp charge ( this is all on a Nema 14-50 with same kwh driven. I am still waiting for SCE to update that days info. So I am curious if and why it would be different to charge at a lower amp or normal 40 amp. Should know more later today.

To update my post. Approx 10.5 kwh used on 23rd, charged starting at midnight on 24th at 40 amps and used 16.69 kwh according to SCE. So so far, it seems to be more efficient to charge at full amps, Instead of reducing amps to charge in low rate time period. Doesn't make sense to me.
 
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I'm seeing some strange charging rates and trying to see why it would change based on amps selection in the car.
Kwh used from battery approx 11 but SCE is saying for the charging period it used over 22 kwh. I lowered the amps down to approx 15 to take advantage of the low rate period at night. 2 nights ago I set it for a normal 40 amp charge ( this is all on a Nema 14-50 with same kwh driven. I am still waiting for SCE to update that days info. So I am curious if and why it would be different to charge at a lower amp or normal 40 amp. Should know more later today.

To update my post. Approx 10.5 kwh used on 23rd, charged starting at midnight on 24th at 40 amps and used 16.69 kwh according to SCE. So so far, it seems to be more efficient to charge at full amps, Instead of reducing amps to charge in low rate time period. Doesn't make sense to me.

My Volt experience is similar. 85% efficient at 240v (3.3kw) and 80% efficient at 120v (1.4kW).
 
ENERGY USE IN WH/MILE FOR THE FIRST 2,000 MILES

Here below is my energy use for the first 2,000 miles of driving. Below, I'll estimate the total cost based on my cost of kWh/mile, and I'll be happy to add what I actually paid when the bill comes, as the car is on its own meter.

IMG_3712.jpg


About 800kWh to go 2,000 miles.

My average of 395 Wh/mile includes many inefficient test rides (sharing the Tesla Smile), some very cold weather driving (several days below 10 degrees, several below zero), mountain driving (read: Hills). At home, I pay - off peak - 5.5 cents/kWh. But I charged in Nh as well at about 16 cents/kWh. My average (a guess) would be about 8 cents/kWh, or about $64 to travel 2,000 miles. This does not account for mileage lost during cold days with the car sitting at my workplace, which I'd estimate is more considerable than I'd have guessed pre-onwership. But I think it fair to say I lose no more than 40 miles/ full charge cycle to the cold, or about 9 full cycles, or 360 miles lost to the cold. At 8 cents/kWh that is about $29, for a total estimated cost of $64 plus $29, before insensible (charging AC-DC conversion related) losses. If these are about 10%, then let's add $8.30 for that and call it $64 plus $29 plus $8.30 = Oh let's call it $90 for 2,000 miles.

$90 of gas = 26 gallons at $3.35/gallon, and my old car, RIP, would have gone 28 miles/gallon, so 28 miles/gallon x 26 gallons = about 750 miles, or about a 3:1 cost difference/mile.

That is, I think, the grimmest measurement I can do, optimizing the ICE costs and maximizing the electrical charging costs, driving INefficiently and at cold temps. When I estimate this in a more favorable light, I see a cost of about $70 total for 2,000 miles of driving.

Update: at 2,500 miles I had used almost precisely 1000kWh, or 2.5 miles/kWh. That, it appears, is my realistic winter mileage. Disappointing a bit that my mileage is well-below the 3.3 miles/kWh I'd anticipated, but warm-weather will improve mileage significantly. But, in reality, I drive this car much faster than I might have anticipated, and therefore, my mileage will not be as ideal as my driving experience...

Here's an update as of May 9, 2013, at 9,000 miles: I have got a total of 8843 measured miles (my actual mileage is 9177, but I did not start measuring my usage until a little after getting the car). I have averaged 367 watt hours per mile over that time, but that includes deep winter, much of it in New Hampshire and below or at 0°. During that time I averaged 395 watt hours/mile.

Over the past 3000 miles (about April 15th-now), I have burned over 900 kWhours (about $70 :smile:) for a total of exactly 326 watt hours per mile. Even that is high compared to my more recent mileage, where I am averaging at or below 300 watt hours per mile. In fact, over the past three days, I have averaged over 300 miles per charge. And though I'd like to tell you I drive slowly, I do not...

I think there are two reasons for this significant decrease in energy use/mile - one is the warmer weather, in which the car is about 10% more efficient, on my own experience. The second, however, is that the more I drive the car, the more I learn to be more more efficient in the way that I drive, while still fully enjoying this car's tremendous acceleration. In short, my driving is becoming more and more efficient although I fully enjoy the tremendous benefits this electric drivetrain provides. My total cost of charging for 9000 miles is about $200. Wow.
 
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ENERGY USE IN WH/MILE FOR THE FIRST 2,000 MILES

Here below is my energy use for the first 2,000 miles of driving. Below, I'll estimate the total cost based on my cost of kWh/mile, and I'll be happy to add what I actually paid when the bill comes, as the car is on its own meter.

View attachment 15293

About 800kWh to go 2,000 miles.

My average of 395 Wh/mile includes many inefficient test rides (sharing the Tesla Smile), some very cold weather driving (several days below 10 degrees, several below zero), mountain driving (read: Hills). At home, I pay - off peak - 5.5 cents/kWh. But I charged in Nh as well at about 16 cents/kWh. My average (a guess) would be about 8 cents/kWh, or about $64 to travel 2,000 miles. This does not account for mileage lost during cold days with the car sitting at my workplace, which I'd estimate is more considerable than I'd have guessed pre-onwership. But I think it fair to say I lose no more than 40 miles/ full charge cycle to the cold, or about 9 full cycles, or 360 miles lost to the cold. At 8 cents/kWh that is about $29, for a total estimated cost of $64 plus $29, before insensible (charging AC-DC conversion related) losses. If these are about 10%, then let's add $8.30 for that and call it $64 plus $29 plus $8.30 = Oh let's call it $90 for 2,000 miles.

$90 of gas = 26 gallons at $3.35/gallon, and my old car, RIP, would have gone 28 miles/gallon, so 28 miles/gallon x 26 gallons = about 750 miles, or about a 3:1 cost difference/mile.

That is, I think, the grimmest measurement I can do, optimizing the ICE costs and maximizing the electrical charging costs, driving INefficiently and at cold temps. When I estimate this in a more favorable light, I see a cost of about $70 total for 2,000 miles of driving.

Update: at 2,500 miles I had used almost precisely 1000kWh, or 2.5 miles/kWh. That, it appears, is my realistic winter mileage. Disappointing a bit that my mileage is well-below the 3.3 miles/kWh I'd anticipated, but warm-weather will improve mileage significantly. But, in reality, I drive this car much faster than I might have anticipated, and therefore, my mileage will not be as ideal as my driving experience...

This is really great real world data. I live in Mass. with a Model S being built 85kwh. I have been wondering what is a reasonable real world range you could count on in the winter if you were going to drive to a location in the morning at normal speed (70-75), not charge, and drive back at the end of a workday. 125miles, 150miles? 175miles?. How many kwh's can you use with a standard charge? I have a Volt and my winter efficiency is exactly the same as yours w/comfort heating levels and normal speeds, which works out to about 65% of EPA rated miles.
 
Going 75 would make you burn 26% extra "rated" miles to reach your destination. I'm not sure of typical temps there, but HVAC at 32 degrees would cost you 13%.

Standing water or snow could be another big hit, but then you'd probably slow down. Unless there's elevation involved, let's say you'd use about 139% of rated miles. That would give you a range of about 190 miles (although of course you'd want to keep a buffer in case it's windy or something, and not really try to go that far!).

Tesla appears to let you use about 81.5kWh, and a standard charge is 90% of that so about 73kWh. That gives you a range of 171 in those conditions on a standard charge.

These numbers came from THIS thread.
 
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FWIW, this morning my 60 reported that it went 124.0 miles on 40.5 kWh since last charge. My kWh meter says it used 41.4 kWh from when I plugged it in at 10pm until I unplugged it this morning at 10am. I charged it on 240v, at 23 amps (to stretch it out overnight). (4.2 software)

That looks like 97.8% charging efficiency to me.

Correction: I should have included a previous 12.5 kWh charge in the calculation. So it was 53.9 kWh from the kWh meter for the 40.5 kwh reported by the car.

It looks like the car only used 75.1% of the power delivered under these conditions, more in line with what others have seen.
 
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