Model 3 - 175 miles from a 277 mile charge?

[mreynolds767]

Dumb question: I don't like the look of the Aero wheel covers so I took them off. How much would that impact the range? I know it depends on what kind of driving and MPH the car goes, but I'm curious if anyone can put a figure on it. I haven't seen this information anywhere.

Believe it is stated to be approx. 5%
I took them off as well.

 

[Nocturnal]

I find this thread to be both very informative and dumbed down enough for a new owner like me to understand. It makes sense why my range was getting killed over the weekend when I was driving 75 mph for a few hours. I kept thinking it was the heat/defrost so I was playing with those settings quite a bit.
Dumb question: I don't like the look of the Aero wheel covers so I took them off. How much would that impact the range? I know it depends on what kind of driving and MPH the car goes, but I'm curious if anyone can put a figure on it. I haven't seen this information anywhere.

Heater can make a big difference for sure. IIRC, aero wheel savings are substantial. around 3% maybe? I'm sure someone will chime in with the actual.

On long trips when it's really cold out, I bring a big blanket. Let's met keep the heater on a lower setting (while using seat heaters which are more efficient) and is far more comfortable than wearing a coat. But again, that's only on long trips. 95% of the year I don't worry.

 

[Twiglett]

A gas car rated at 24mpg will only get that fuel economy based on certain (usually gentle) conditions.
Slow and gentle driving gets you better range, fast and aggressive gets you less.
None of that changes for an EV.
However, the Tesla will give you specifics in terms of wh/mile

For my car I get pretty close to rated most of the time, but my lifetime average on 25K miles is 234 wh/mile
Some folks get more range because their average is <230 wh/mile
I'll bet your average wh/mile is somewhat higher, but I'll bet you're enjoying it

 

[mreynolds767]

A gas car rated at 24mpg will only get that fuel economy based on certain (usually gentle) conditions.
Slow and gentle driving gets you better range, fast and aggressive gets you less.
None of that changes for an EV.
However, the Tesla will give you specifics in terms of wh/mile

For my car I get pretty close to rated most of the time, but my lifetime average on 25K miles is 234 wh/mile
Some folks get more range because their average is <230 wh/mile
I'll bet your average wh/mile is somewhat higher, but I'll bet you're enjoying it

For me personally I have not in the past 20 years not bettered the EPA combined averages on the gas cars I have owned.
That is mainly because I drive mostly highway and gasoline cars especially one with ample size engines are very efficient at highway cruising speeds. I could drive 80+ on my all highway commute and get better than my rated MPG range on my last car or in my wife's current car.

If I get stuck in bumper to bumper traffic in my Tesla for many miles I can get the rated range or even better than rated if traffic is awful for the entire drive, if not on the highway I never do get 230 at the speeds I drive even with the heater off.
I don't think driving 75 on an interstate is going unreasonably fast, I think that is often keeping up with the pace of traffic.

I am not sure if Tesla's have a range for Highway vs. City driving like MPG cars but I think they should.
The dual motor cars are also definitely less efficient than the RWD models, which they also do not communicate.

Happy with the car and the range but glad I researched this before purchasing because the rated ranges are much more unrealistic in my opinion than MPG ratings are with an ICE.

 

[Rockster]

I don't mean to single out the OP by suggesting this because this is a common misconception but I think we should have a sticky with a subject line something like "New Owners, Read This to Understand Why Your Range Differs from What Was Advertised." I'm not saying OP did this, but some new owners post here, outraged that they're not getting the range that Tesla "promised them," only to read that they're driving 75 or 80 mph, uphill, in the rain, with a headwind, while tooling around carrying five Russian weightlifters and a bag of cement..

This post could clearly explain that those numbers are derived from testing the car's range under very specific conditions that are mandated by the EPA, not Tesla, just like ICE vehicle MPG ratings, and that Tesla isn't guaranteeing or promising a specific range under all conditions.

 

[jjrandorin]

I'm not saying OP did this, but some new owners post here, outraged that they're not getting the range that Tesla "promised them," only to read that they're driving 75 or 80 mph, uphill, in the rain, with a headwind, while tooling around carrying five Russian weightlifters and a bag of cement..

I litterally spit out my coffee reading this line, LMAO.

 

[vickh]

chill mode a big factor? or can you "overcome" it with a heavy foot?

 

[esrandl]

OP,
Like others said, check your life time Wh/mi and see where you lie. I came out of a P85, got a M3P and am currently getting 273 Wh/mi lifetime with 6k mi exactly. Obviously I am putting my foot in it quite a bit The good news is, 1) I was happy if I hit 290 lifetime in the P85 so M3P is still way more efficient, 2) I have done several trips where I kept car at 70ish on autopilot and actually did get down in the 240 range for the trip, so it can be done.

Waiting to see how it goes in winter, but my P85 sucked electrons in a big way when I turned the heater on. BUT, the cost is still about a quarter of what you would spend in gas even if you have high Wh/mi... so just sit back and enjoy! I've given up on trying to hypermile even if it can be done. I drive the car the way it's supposed to be driven. I always get a chuckle about people getting revved up about 1K in free supercharger miles, which frankly is less dollars than I suspect all of us have in are wallets right now.

The only exception to above is on very rare trips when I want to pass by a few superchargers, then I just dial it back and yes you can get rated (or better) range.

 

[mreynolds767]

I am 100% someone who says drive how you want and enjoy the drive.
Still cheaper than gas no matter how you drive and the range combined with SC and destination chargers make it no problem for 99.99% of trips I will ever take.
I just dislike how things are kind of hidden until you own the car or talk to an honest owner.

One of the first questions I get asked is about the range. I cannot honestly say 310.

 

[toolman335]

Russian body builders and cement!

Yeah that just ruined my afternoon coffee by spitting it out too. Awesome lol.

 

[toolman335]

Totally agree that hypermiling isn't going to be happening in my car. If you stare at the energy consumption every day you will not enjoy the car.

 

[mtndrew1]

310. 325. Max mileage wasn't the main point. Getting 175 miles from a 275 mile charge is my concern. My 50 mile round-trip commute to work, in the spring and fall (when not using heat or A/C) doesn't improve the mileage substantially. I bought the car in Feb and Tesla told me to expect a sizable degradation in mileage due to the cold (the physics of batteries). Not much improvement was realized when it warmed up this past summer, however. It is almost exactly 200 miles to our place on the shore and I can't get 3/4ths the way there on a FULL charge (which, with the update, has been well over 310 miles).

Would you take a pic of your trip meters so we can see what kind of Wh/mi you’re getting? That’s all that matters here. If you’re using up 350 Wh/mi then the low range would make sense.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

My dual motor performance Model 3 is supposed to have a 325 mile range (+/-). When I charge to 80% it registers about about 277 miles when charging stops. I've driven the car in the summer. I've driven the car in the winter. I've driven city and I've taken road trips. Regardless of the temp outside OR the type of driving I do, I don't get ANYWHERE NEAR the advertised miles (like, not even close). Did Tesla find a 325 mile downhill slope somewhere to test mileage? I've owned the car just under a year and have put about 10,000 miles on it. Anyone else have this issue?

Due to the vampire drain, any estimate of range has to be done for one continuous drive. You can't measure it over days, as the loss due to vampire drain (and feature drain for overheat protection, smart summon standby, and sentry) can be considerable.

As others have suggested, your numbers suggest you've been getting 370Wh/mi (277rmi/175mi*234Wh/rmi), but likely the real number is lower due to these other losses.

Again, it's not relevant to talk about range if you are not talking about one continuous drive, or at least all driving completed within a 12-hour span, with minimal feature use.

That being said, pretty much the norm for a Performance 20" in ideal conditions (no elevation, winds, or rain) at freeway speeds (70-80mph) is about 300Wh/mi, which means about 180-200 miles between Superchargers. You can stop with about 5-10% left and recharge.

 

[joebruin77]

Does this affect vampire drain much?

Not that I can detect. The app gives an indication as to how much vampire drain your M3 experiences. The app designer states that the app does not contribute to vampire drain. I suspect that it is similar to the Tesla app, in that if you check it very frequently and wake up the car each time, then that will create more phantom drain. But otherwise, it does not contribute to phantom drain.

The app has helped me to see that using Sentry Mode definitely contributes to more phantom drain.

 

[DJKappeler]

As well as your 325 / 310 being off ; the 80% showing 277 cannot be accurate either.
If you see 277 after charging I suspect you have charging set to 90% not 80%

I do think for the performance Telsa should list it a little lower than the 310 rating the EPA gives (same for AWD and AWD Performance) the tire and rim difference alone means they should more accurately list it at 290 or at max 300 for buyers to understand this better.

As mentioned by others you need to achieve 230 wh/mile to get the rated miles. Right on your screen it shows you what you are getting since last time car was in park, since last charge, since lifetime, etc... so you can compare what you are actually getting.
Like you I do not average 230 wh/mile.
I average 260 and that is with an AWD (non performance) and with 18" wheels (aero covers off)
If I had a performance on the 20's I am sure that would be closer to 275

The biggest factor is high speed. Above 70 the car is not efficient. Above 75 it gets even worse. Based on one chart I saw, the car loses about 20 miles of range per 5 miles an hour above 65. So drive 70 instead of 65 you are going to get close to 20 miles less. 75 instead of 65, 40 miles less. 80 instead of 65, 60 miles less. To me that is a huge difference between say a V6 ICE car where cruising at 75 is very efficient. An electric car it is much more efficient to sit in stop and go traffic on the highway than cruise along with no traffic at 70+

EPA testing is likely not going over 65 for any length of time so makes sense how the car can be rated at 230 wh/mile and a 310 range.

If you slow your highway speed to 65 max you will notice a big efficient boost with a Model 3
While I am aware of this, I am still not ready to routinely drive that slow. I do on average drive slower top speeds on the highway than I used to though.

Thanks for the response. I'm sure I'm not the only "Sammy Hagar" driver in this group. Besides the highway speeds (70-ish) I'm sure I'm killing the electrons with my constant acceleration (hearing my wife snapping about her head banging off the head rest never gets old).

 

[Meros]

Maybe there is something wrong with one of your brakes. I've heard of one Model 3 owner who had wildly high consumption (400wh/mi) that varied a lot. Turned out that one of the brakes was rubbing and dragging. It was identified by driving the car for a bit and using a thermal camera to look at the brakes. One of them was really hot and the other 3 were cool. If you use some caution, you might be able to diagnose it by carefully touching the brakes with the back of your hand.

 

[dhrivnak]

My dual motor performance Model 3 is supposed to have a 325 mile range (+/-). When I charge to 80% it registers about about 277 miles when charging stops. I've driven the car in the summer. I've driven the car in the winter. I've driven city and I've taken road trips. Regardless of the temp outside OR the type of driving I do, I don't get ANYWHERE NEAR the advertised miles (like, not even close). Did Tesla find a 325 mile downhill slope somewhere to test mileage? I've owned the car just under a year and have put about 10,000 miles on it. Anyone else have this issue?

I frequently get rated range in my LD RWD. Now I normally drive close to the speed limit (67 MPH) and have the Aero Wheels which I hear help. My best was 375 miles but that was on 50-55 mph roads.

 

[TimothyHW3]

I explain why you can't get the 100% charge even if you drive at the EPA constant in this video.

In this video I talk about what vampire drain is, which OP probably also experiences, and how to limit it

And in this video I talk about the HVAC consumption.

Between these 3 videos, if you watch them carefully, anyone can understand how to reach their designated range and what causes what drain.

 

[TimothyHW3]

I frequently get rated range in my LD RWD. Now I normally drive close to the speed limit (67 MPH) and have the Aero Wheels which I hear help. My best was 375 miles but that was on 50-55 mph roads.

And how did you calculate the 375 miles? You drove 375 miles from 0-100% or you drove 100miles at X consumption and thought you will get 375miles at 0%?

Because if it is the second, it is not very accurate.

I am not saying 375 miles is not possible on an RWD, but at 55mph constant, it is very, very, very highly unlikely and to actually achieve that you have to go from 100% to as close as 0% you can get on a very flat road at nice weather without the HVAC running. And that without stopping for longer periods to avoid some vampire drain.

 

[rickdogg82]

For me the math doesn't work out. If you were rated at 325 an 80% charge will be approximately 260 miles. But 310 at 80% is 248. Are your numbers correct?

Ultimately rated range means nothing. Thirty drivers could start with equal 325 leaving their driveway but a mile down the road they will all be different. Send the 30 for a 200 mile drive and ask them to pull over and record their remaining % and they will be vastly different.