100% range on new Model Y LR with 3 miles on it calculates to 301 miles

[Rocky_H]

Range indication is only an estimate, based on various parammeters,

Yes! This, exactly!

such as your previous driving consumption

Such as....everything except that. That's just about the only thing it doesn't use. The number values shift based on the car's estimation getting a little fuzzy on trying to determine the amount of energy it thinks is in the battery, but then it is scaling it by a fixed ratio of amount of energy per rated mile that isn't based on anyone's driving behavior or efficiency.

 

[chidong113]

My new Telsa MYP with less than 100 miles has 2.4% battery degradation. Is this normal? Shouldn't my battery health should be close to 100% if not 100%?
Appreciate in advance for your expert feedbacks.

 

[SO16]

That is just an estimation which can fluctuate. That’s why many people just tap the number to show percentage instead of mileage anyway since it’s just a “guess o meter”. I still leave it on miles because even though it can be a ways off when full, it seems to get more accurate when closer to empty.

(My gas car full tank mileage estimation even fluctuates up to 15 miles.)

You will notice some degradation the first year more than following years anyway. Biggest drop typically happens in first year which still really doesn’t impact usage.

Most likely nothing to worry about and if the battery did experience a massive degradation within the first 8 years/120k miles, it’s under warranty anyway.

Details here: https://www.tesla.com/support/vehicle-warranty

 

[chidong113]

I am not talking about charge percentage but actual battery health. Since it being a brand new car, shouldn't it have higher battery health?

 

[jjrandorin]

I am not talking about charge percentage but actual battery health. Since it being a brand new car, shouldn't it have higher battery health?

How exactly are you determining this battery health? if you are using ANY third party tool to try to determine battery health for a new vehicle, its not relevant.

if you actually mean what you said "appreciate in advance expert feedbacks", that feedback would be that although your account is brand new here, there are probably 10,000 posts on "battery health" in some form or other on this site, so there is plenty of reading you can do without creating a new thread on battery degradation.

Even if your new car does have "degradation" of 2.4% (which is highly unlikely), there is zero that Tesla or anyone else can do about it unless the car reaches the battery warranty thresshold, which is 30%.

It doesnt matter if your new car has no degradation, or 10%, unless it has actual battery errors that show up to Tesla, nothing will be done by them unless or until it hits 30%.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

What is wrong with my brand new car?

Since it being a brand new car, shouldn't it have higher battery health?

Please use the method!!! Energy is all that matters.

This gives you energy (or the degradation threshold, which is ~79.5kWh for 2024 AWD Y, the max cap value these cars will show with this method, even if actual energy is higher). It includes the buffer energy.

Model Y 2024 EPA energy was around 79kWh (for reasons we do not understand, it is less than prior years of 81kWh-82kWh 2021-2023 when new).

The rated miles matter a LOT (unlike many people say here). They are a direct reflection of the BMS’s best estimate of energy available. You just have to know how much energy each mile contains (this can be derived from the vehicle energy screen as well - just switch to rated miles display at any reasonable SOC and do the same calculation to calculate energy per rated mile, which is a constant for a given car model). Yes, the BMS algorithm can have error of a couple percent and the number can go up and down. But if the BMS thinks you are out of energy, it will shut down, so the estimate is what matters. Maybe you’ll get more energy out than it estimates, but not guaranteed (you may also get less which is why there is a buffer). The estimate is the best estimate in the world of your current pack energy - there’s nothing better.

You can use the rated miles at 100% to track your capacity loss. Note that when energy exceeds the degradation threshold, rated miles are also capped. So it may take some time for your rated miles to start reducing, then when passing below that (304 miles at the moment), the rated miles will reduce at their maximum rate you will see, then as more months pass, the rate of loss will level out to very low levels after 2-3 years.

For optimizing, if you wish:
Storing the car below about 55% will give about half the rate of capacity loss as storing over 60%. There is a huge step here of very high returns. Lower values are even better, but with diminishing returns, and it poses serious usability & convenience concerns.

Charging the car to 100% is a non issue; can do it routinely whenever it is needed, and whenever the extra energy is all used up promptly to bring below 55%. Not a problem at all. Just charge to what you need, store the car below 55%, and charge all the time (every day).

Storage is occurring whenever the car is not in use and SOC there is the primary determinant of capacity loss. So for most people the car is being stored at least 90% of the time.

 

[CoolBuddy]

“i just picked up 2024 Model Y LR with less range than Tesla claims”

You and every person who’s ever purchased a Tesla

Not true with regards to displayed range. My 2018 Model 3 Performance still showed the rated range 8 months after purchase at 100%. More info from Tesla's website:

Displayed range in your Tesla is adapted based on fixed EPA test data, not your personal driving patterns. It's natural for this to fluctuate slightly based on how you charge the battery throughout its life and how the onboard computer calculates range."

 

[PearlyMM]

Looking for highest range for model Y (310 miles), I decided to order it with 19 inch wheels, 5 seats (not 7) with no towing hook, nothing else, after waiting for 2 weeks, I took delivery of 2024 Model Y Brand New, 19 inch wheel, which is supposed to have 310 miles. it was charged to 80% but showing only 243 miles (this corresponds to 303.75 miles for 100% SOC), charging it fully to 100%, showing on the screen "Limit 304 miles under 100%" . I tried to drive on Chill mode, slow, no AC, extremely low wh/mile, charge to 80%, 100% whatever, the 304 mile limit for 100% SOC on the screen is not changing. The limit/projected miles for this SOC is dependent on voltage reading of the BMS on full charge.
Opened a ticket with Tesla service (twice) for a brand new car in San Diego Best Service Center (for this issue and few other observations/issues unacceptable for brand new car), I was told nothing wrong with the car, no error found after battery testing and BMS etc tests.
So I assume that those low cost 4680 batteries come with the original low voltage pack Compared to 2170! I am reading lots of Barnd New Model Y deliveries Feb/March/April comes with 301-304 Miles for 100% charge.

Those cars come Brand New with the "original factory installed option of low mileage - 304 miles for each 310 miles advertised"

 

[Ostrichsak]

Really? 304 miles is now "much lower" now? Less than 2% variance is reason to create a thread and get up in arms over? You know that's an estimate, right?

Just enjoy your vehicle and searching for reasons to play the victim.

 

[PearlyMM]

Really? 304 miles is now "much lower" now? Less than 2% variance is reason to create a thread and get up in arms over? You know that's an estimate, right?

Just enjoy your vehicle and searching for reasons to play the victim.

Stupidly Funny.

 

[PearlyMM]

Was the car actually charged to 100% or did you calculate what you think it would say at 100% based on current state of charge? The cars BMS on a new car may not have a ton of readings, so if you want to see what it is at 100%, charge it to 100% and let it finish charging, even if it sits at 100% for a while and is still charging.

Both calculated, and actual after charged to 100%

 

[ucmndd]

So I assume that those low cost 4680 batteries come with the original low voltage pack Compared to 2170!

Not sure what you’re implying here but your car does not have 4680 batteries.

We also picked up a new LR Y last quarter. Ours also charged to 304 miles at 100%.

Oh well.

Tesla isn’t going to do anything for you.

 

[PearlyMM]

Right, they indicated that. What is not right is that Model Y has those batteries since 2022.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Those cars come Brand New with the "original factory installed option of low mileage - 304 miles for each 310 miles advertised"

All that matters is the energy. That’s actually what is advertised (even though they give a miles number, a particular energy content backs that number up, and is all that matters, in combination with vehicle efficiency).

You could have 3 rated miles at 100%, and it would be just fine, as long as the energy checks out. The rated efficiency would be a little low (~25000Wh/mi!), but of course incorrect. That unit is super important.

It's known that these vehicles show 304 rated miles (maximum) for the time being, but they show ~79.5kWh of energy at 304 miles per the method, so it's fine.

Use the method and rest easy. Note that when it shows 79.5kWh, that is a MINIMUM value. It could be as high as 81kWh. 79.5kWh is the max it shows for this particular vehicle - that is the degradation threshold for 2024 Model Y Long Range at the moment.

Really? 304 miles is now "much lower" now? Less than 2% variance is reason to create a thread and get up in arms over? You know that's an estimate, right?

It really does matter, actually, if it reflects a reduction in energy or low initial energy. The miles matter, but you have to know the units. The units can change. (Also @PearlyMM did not create the thread...)

In this case all is well. 304 miles is in fact approximately equal to 310 miles, using 256Wh/mi as the unit for the latter value. If you denominate in 2023 units, the 2024 with 304rmi2024 actually has 79.5kWh/79kWh * 315rmi2023 = 317rmi2023!!!

So, @PearlyMM, think of your vehicle as having 317 miles, in terms of 2023 miles.

(It's actually not this simple since the vehicles had different degradation thresholds, and the 2023 definitely typically started over 79kWh, but for the sake of argument. As far as we know the 2023 and 2024 have the same range when new (some uncertainty on the pack, covered below).)


Remember that rated miles are a unit of energy, and they are different for different models, and different model years. On rare occasions, Tesla will update the units after shipping the vehicle. That may still happen. The 2024 Tesla numbers don't show on fueleconomy.gov yet and when they do it is possible there will be an update. It may not happen, but it doesn't matter, regardless. I suspect it will, unless they adjust the advertised number down, which would be unusual. It will likely be retroactive to 2024s, but it may not be.

In general, this constant does not change after the vehicle ships, with exceptions.

There is still some uncertainty as to why the EPA test showed less energy pulled from this pack (79kWh) for 2024, than it did for 2023 and earlier (around 81-82kWh). Could be just a one-off test article difference.

2024 constant: ~262Wh/mi (screen line at ~267Wh/mi). For now. 2023 constant: ~251Wh/mi (screen line at 256Wh/mi). (Will not change)

 

[ucmndd]

Right, they indicated that. What is not right is that Model Y has those batteries since 2022.

I’m gonna need you to be a bit more articulate about what you’re taking about, because you’re really hard to follow.

 

[PearlyMM]

I’m gonna need you to be a bit more articulate about what you’re taking about, because you’re really hard to follow.

Point taken. I was joking about those cars come with lower range than what's actually advertised, even brand new with no mileage. The range in brand new battery and new car is a reflection of the total nominal voltage at the final terminals, poor quality control and letting mediocre cells go into the battery pack result in this phenomenon many experiencing.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

total nominal voltage at the final terminals, poor quality control and letting mediocre cells go into the battery pack result in this phenomenon many experiencing.

As explained above, this is incorrect. Just use the energy method and then make pronouncements.

2023 MYLR vehicles typically started above 79kWh. Not always, but nearly always. After a couple cycles they nearly all went above that value. If they showed 315 rated miles, they had 79kWh or more of energy.

2024 MYLR vehicles showing 304 miles have 79.5kWh or more.

 

[PearlyMM]

As explained above, this is incorrect. Just use the energy method and then make pronouncements.

2023 vehicles typically started above 79kWh. Not always, but nearly always. After a couple cycles they nearly all went above that value.

2024 vehicles showing 304 miles have 79.5kWh or more.

So what's the true cause? BMS alone can not explain it, unless I'm missing something

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

So what's the true cause? BMS alone can not explain it, unless I'm missing something

I explained above. It's the units. Again, your miles could show 1000, or 30. It's the same value, potentially. All that matters is the units of the miles, and how many you have. You can't just take the number of miles and draw any conclusions, if you don't know the units.

Remember that (rated) miles are not a unit of distance. They're a unit of energy. In this context. And the units differ depending on the car and model year. Each model and year (sometimes subsequent years are the same but not in this case) will have different energy content per mile. And all of this information is available in the vehicle using the energy app (in Model 3/Y, anyway).

This is a really simple concept, but people seem to not grasp it initially. I would just encourage you to focus on the TOTAL energy (see the method) and forget about the units, number of miles, etc. The energy your pack contains (in combination with your vehicle efficiency for that particular drive, of course) is what will determine how far you can go. And yes, the energy your pack contains at 100% WILL go down with time.

Your vehicle, since it shows 304 miles at 100%, will give you 79.5kWh using the method (AFAIK - I don’t own one of these vehicles so relying on the reports of others here). It’s healthy. Feel free to report back what you get. Remember this value includes the 4.5% buffer, and if it is 79.5kWh for MYLR, it could actually be higher.

If you are concerned about battery health, and want the max energy content of your pack to go down at a fairly low rate, keep your battery below 55% when storing the vehicle (storing means parked). It's not an issue at all to go to 100%. Just store it at 55% or below. And charge every day. Use higher charge levels if you need them. If you don't need it, use 55% or 50% or whatever. 60% is a lot worse, not that much different than 70%, 80%, 90%, etc., approximately twice the rate of capacity loss as 55% storage or below (very roughly).

Again, using higher charge levels is not an issue at all. Just think about keeping the storage level low. Cars are stored 90%+ of the time, for most people.

 

[N..8]

As stated above and shown with me posting my new 2024 Model Y (Tesla Spy info) it appears (My Opinion) that Tesla is soft locking the battery to have a Nominal Full pack of 79.6 ish out of the factory. It's also my opinion that it's not a real concern because I think it's by design (I didn't see this in my older Model S or my 2021 Model Y) This seems like they are trying something new. I'm not sure of the problem they are trying to avoid, time will tell.