Model 3 Autopilot suddenly tried to turn off

[CertLive]

You realize that's not a Tesla document, and at no point did Tesla ever promise you any specific level of SAE automation, right?


I mean, your AC system has a HIGH setting, that doesn't mean it's SAE level 4 autonomous.

Tesla are using well established terms in the automotive industry to describe the goals. It sounds as if some people here are nervous these cant be reached by the cars? I hope they do as advertised with a full self driving computer / software purchase. I hope they make it. But there is no mistake with the terms used for FSD.

 

[CertLive]

Or Autonomous Driving – five steps to the self-driving car Level 5

 

[CertLive]

 

[Knightshade]

Tesla are using well established terms in the automotive industry to describe the goals.

Really?

Can you please cite anything from tesla where they cite promising any specific SAE autonomy level to FSD buyers, especially post-march-2019 buyers?

I mean- you just told us they did- should be easy.

We'll wait.

(apparently we need to wait since you keep spamming the thread with non tesla documents right now)

Te But there is no mistake with the terms used for FSD.

There's not. And yet somehow you keep doing it.

 

[CertLive]

So that self driving taxi fleet Elon talks about I believe is level 5? This is the term “ Full self driving “ known anywhere in the auto industry.

 

[CertLive]

Really?

Can you please cite anything from tesla where they cite promising any specific SAE autonomy level to FSD buyers, especially post-march-2019 buyers?

I mean- you just told us they did- should be easy.

We'll wait.

(apparently we need to wait since you keep spamming the thread with non tesla documents right now)






There's not. And yet somehow you keep doing it.

Yes “ FSD “

 

[Knightshade]

Yes “ FSD “

FSD is a proprietary term for something Tesla sells with a specific set of features.

In fact, it has 2 entirely different sets of promised features based on when you bought it.


Nowhere, in any Tesla published document, do they define it based on SAE driving levels.

So....no.

 

[CertLive]

Of course they could and should call it limited self driving which would properly inform the customer what to expect

FSD is a proprietary term for something Tesla sells with a specific set of features.

In fact, it has 2 entirely different sets of promised features based on when you bought it.


Nowhere, in any Tesla published document, do they define it based on SAE driving levels.

So....no.

What was the first set of promised features?

 

[Knightshade]

Of course they could and should call it limited self driving which would properly inform the customer what to expect


What was the first set of promised features?

The pre-march-2019 one? It still didn't use SAE level descriptions, but it would most closely map to (at least) level 4... (and I only disclaim that down from 5 because they mention "in almost all circumstances"

 

[Mr. Frodo]

From the latest software update, my model 3 suddenly turned to the left on an area with straight lanes only and flashed a red message that I couldn't see because it was instantly gone once I corrected. I never had that happen to me since I drive the same path to work, so it definitely caught me by surprise. I don't have any footage of it, but something triggered it to make a hard left turn immediately at 75 mph...

 

[DopeGhoti]

The pre-march-2019 one? It still didn't use SAE level descriptions, but it would most closely map to (at least) level 4... (and I only disclaim that down from 5 because they mention "in almost all circumstances"


View attachment 512237

Also note that all of these futures were quite specifically and deliberately placed in the future tense. You will [eventually] be able to do these things.

 

[mswlogo]

Well...keep in mind that FSD wouldn't have done that because the car would have had a destination in mind - just like you did as a human. You didn't tell the car what to do. You just told it to center itself in the lane and it did it - even though the lane started to get wider.

Remember FSD does more than just lane keep. FSD would have stayed to the right and would have indicated its intent on the screen.

More importantly.....your car didn't pull you anywhere. It was keeping itself between the outside lane lines. The car thought the lane was getting wider and it perfectly tried to center itself between those outside lane lines that were getting wider and wider.

DO this..... watch the blue outside lines whenever this happens again and watch those blue lines get wider and wider in your scenario. The car knows nothing about an exit or anything in lane keep.

True but Navigate On AutoPilot (NoA) does know where it’s going and doesn’t handle that situation any better. Some day.

 

[Garlan Garner]

True but Navigate On AutoPilot (NoA) does know where it’s going and doesn’t handle that situation any better. Some day.

Yes it does handle the situation better. Indeed it does.

NoA knows the defined route and hugs either the left or right side of the road based on the destination.

It happened to me this morning.

Now keep in mind that in order for this to happen like I'm saying......you have to allow NOA to change lanes without confirmation.

 

[Garlan Garner]

So that self driving taxi fleet Elon talks about I believe is level 5? This is the term “ Full self driving “ known anywhere in the auto industry.

Which means what in this discussion?

You just can't stop talking about FSD can you? You even suggested to stop talking about it.

You don't own it and yet complain and criticize and...….

What is your mission? Are you regretting you didn't get it cheaper? Do you really want it and are looking for someone to convince you to take the plunge?

Are you the CEO of Porsche or Nissan or...…?

 

[Garlan Garner]

Of course they could and should call it limited self driving which would properly inform the customer what to expect


What was the first set of promised features?

You should expect what is written down and that you approve when you activate it in the car.

Just READ. geesh.

Its the fault of the buyer if you don't read. Now …. if you don't know how to read....that's different.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I have some Beautiful Land down in Florida for $1 per acre.

Don't read the description - just send me money.

How much do you want?

Who's first?

 

[mswlogo]

Yes it does handle the situation better. Indeed it does.

NoA knows the defined route and hugs either the left or right side of the road based on the destination.

It happened to me this morning.

Now keep in mind that in order for this to happen like I'm saying......you have to allow NOA to change lanes without confirmation.

Yeah it stays out of the right lane sometimes to avoid it. It will still center itself as a lane widens up due to poorly marked exits and then jump back once you pass it.

It may do better at junctions it needs to decide on. But just cruising along with poorly marked exits I have not seen fixed. I’ve seen it do better but still not reliable.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Yeah it stays out of the right lane sometimes to avoid it. It will still center itself as a lane widens up due to poorly marked exits and then jump back once you pass it.

It may do better at junctions it needs to decide on. But just cruising along with poorly marked exits I have not seen fixed. I’ve seen it do better but still not reliable.

I ran this test this morning for the sake of this thread.

I went to an area on the expressway where I know the exit lane is improperly marked where my P3D ALWAYS centers itself in a widening lane that eventually exits on AP.

I turned on AP ( no NoA at all ).

Sure enough my car veers to the right and then sees what the situation is and moves back to the left hand ( original ) lane of the split. I can see where the car recognized the lane split because the right blue lane line jerked over to the left. Then the car re-centered itself to the left hand non -exit lane.

I turned around and tried the whole thing again with FSD / NoA on. Same exit....my car turned on the left turn signal and hugged the left lane marker without ANY attempt to center itself. The left turn signal came on for about 4 blinks and turned off.

Conclusion: AP and NoA didn't do the same thing. <------- and this is the beta version of both.

________________________________________________________________
If anyone wants to test this in the Chicagoland area......

Get on I88 going east from Naperville Il.

When you test with FSD put in a destination of the Bollingbrook SuperCharger. That will cause FSD to get into the right lane to take the exit to 355. Once you are on the ramp between 88 and 355 there is a split on the right towards Ogden.

AP will try and center itself between the Ogden exit and the route to the Bolingbrook Supercharger.
FSD will temporarialy turn on the left turn signal to show the people behind you - and will stay left with no attempt to center itself at all.

___________________________________________________________________

Most importantly - NoA will not try and center itself in lanes like AP does when it knows what the route is.


That's one such non-communicated FSD advantage that TESLA does not mention. It just works. ​

 

[Garlan Garner]

True but Navigate On AutoPilot (NoA) does know where it’s going and doesn’t handle that situation any better. Some day.

That's totally untrue. Look at my post above this one.

 

[CertLive]

I ran this test this morning for the sake of this thread.

I went to an area on the expressway where I know the exit lane is improperly marked where my P3D ALWAYS centers itself in a widening lane that eventually exits on AP.

I turned on AP ( no NoA at all ).

Sure enough my car veers to the right and then sees what the situation is and moves back to the left hand ( original ) lane of the split. I can see where the car recognized the lane split because the right blue lane line jerked over to the left. Then the car re-centered itself to the left hand non -exit lane.

I turned around and tried the whole thing again with FSD / NoA on. Same exit....my car turned on the left turn signal and hugged the left lane marker without ANY attempt to center itself. The left turn signal came on for about 4 blinks and turned off.

Conclusion: AP and NoA didn't do the same thing. <------- and this is the beta version of both.

________________________________________________________________
If anyone wants to test this in the Chicagoland area......

Get on I88 going east from Naperville Il.

When you test with FSD put in a destination of the Bollingbrook SuperCharger. That will cause FSD to get into the right lane to take the exit to 355. Once you are on the ramp between 88 and 355 there is a split on the right towards Ogden.

AP will try and center itself between the Ogden exit and the route to the Bolingbrook Supercharger.
FSD will temporarialy turn on the left turn signal to show the people behind you - and will stay left with no attempt to center itself at all.

___________________________________________________________________

Most importantly - NoA will not try and center itself in lanes like AP does when it knows what the route is.


That's one such non-communicated FSD advantage that TESLA does not mention. It just works. ​

Could you upload the video of the test it would really give people peace of mind to see it correct itself after? Because also we need to know if AP would pull me off the road left and FSD does not. Which makes AP more unsafe than FSD? I am mainly playing devils advocate here but understand my logic I do not expect AP to do anything other than keep me on the road line with all the safety avoidance features sold with the car. The choice at that moment for the car to want to join the other road is built into AP or FSD logic crossing over? I mean a patch might come out and totally correct what was happening in my video but its happening, its unexpected and this is probably easy because it has a huge runoff. Other experiences have been an interesting angle.