Hello everyone.I'm waiting for my model 3 it still says Sept.-Nov. but i want to have my charging options already set up.So I have a detached garage with 2 110v outlets.there is also a switch which turns power off to those outlets.My question is will that be enough for my daily commute?I only drive 14 miles round try for work.the breaker that goes to the garage is 20A.Should I change one of the outlets to 15-20?
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Model 3 charging
- Thread starter chicagoM3
- Start date
terrywhite
Member
Not in Chicago in the winter he won’t.
You need a 240V 50A circuit in the winter. I’m sure you drive more than your work commute, and if not you’ll want to once you start driving the Model 3. Just consider installing the 240V circuit as part of the price of the car.
When you make a statement like that, it can be very helpful if you explain why, as opposed to just no. Especially being a Texan that doesn't have the cold.
If there is a switch, first, make sure that both outlets in each socket are switched, not just one. If the switch controls all of the outlets. I'd recommend having the switch removed, not only to make sure that the plugs are on, but to better handle the current.
Might as well put baby proofers in the other outlet so that you aren't tempted to use it as well. I vacuum turned on while charging will probably trip the breaker.
Might as well put baby proofers in the other outlet so that you aren't tempted to use it as well. I vacuum turned on while charging will probably trip the breaker.
Eno Deb
Active Member
I'm currently charging at 120V in my garage as well. My commute is about 20 miles and this works just fine with overnight charging (but I live in CA with always mild temperatures). I usually charge up to 70%, so I always have a little over 200 miles available in case I need to make a longer trip (and there are also plenty of superchargers in the area if need be).
One thing I'd recommend to do is to check the outlets, especially if they are older. When I first started charging I noticed that the plug and outlet got warm and the voltage dropped a bit, presumably since the contacts in the outlet were worn out or oxidized. I installed a new receptacle and now the plug stays cool.
One thing I'd recommend to do is to check the outlets, especially if they are older. When I first started charging I noticed that the plug and outlet got warm and the voltage dropped a bit, presumably since the contacts in the outlet were worn out or oxidized. I installed a new receptacle and now the plug stays cool.
I will chime in on this... in the winter months before the car can charge it must first heat the battery, the 120 volt outlet will not provide enough power to heat the pack in sub zero temperature. This will result in an inability to charge when you need it most, as EV’s use more energy in the colds months as heating pack and cabin use considerable amounts of energy. For example I have 240v 30 amp outlet in my garage it provides 6KW this is just barly has enough to run the cabin heater or the battery heater but not both as they are roughly 6KW each. Now say I wanted pre heat the car and finish a chagre to 100 percent I can’t do all three and I have 6 times the KW available that a 120v plug has. (Roughly)
Hope this helps. ( :
As others have said, you need way more than what a 120V outlet can provide during the wintertime. >MAYBE< if you immediately start charging the moment you get home(and therefore the battery is already warm) you'll actually be able to charge. More than likely, you won't get any charging at all.
I was about to say 50 amps is more than you really need, but I trust Rogue one's comments regarding the cabin/battery heater power. Once you have someone running a new circuit, the marginal cost for better wire should be pretty low.
I was about to say 50 amps is more than you really need, but I trust Rogue one's comments regarding the cabin/battery heater power. Once you have someone running a new circuit, the marginal cost for better wire should be pretty low.
Soo... apparently there's no true battery heater in the model 3. It sounds like they use waste heat from the motor/inverter even when the car is parked to heat the battery. I can't imagine they actually feed 6kw into the inverter and its stationary motor and don't cause something to burn.
eprosenx
Active Member
Do you also have lights in the garage? Are they off that same circuit or a different one? Are there any other electrical devices in the garage whatsoever?
Is that circuit that goes to the garage *only* for the garage?
So that switch may likely be a mandated "disconnect" when running power to a different building. I have seen this before. You might want to check to make sure the switch is 20a rated.
I nearly always will recommend something more than a 120v circuit for home charging. I can't comment on the cold weather charging situation as others have, but I don't disagree with what has been said here. Your range needs do sound very limited though.
I absolutely would upgrade one of those receptacles to 5-20 as long as the circuit breaker is 20a and the wire is 12 gauge (or larger). You want the least number of connections in the circuit for EV charging, so if you can, it would be good to plug the car into the first receptacle in the chain in the garage (but this all depends on the layout). From a NEC standpoint for EV charging circuits you are only allowed to have a single receptacle (not even a duplex receptacle), but since this is not like a new circuit specifically for EV charging I doubt it breaks any rules. You will need the Tesla 5-20 adapter naturally as well (this give you a pretty big speed boost in charging over the 5-15).
Is the wire in conduit to the garage? If you were lucky, you might be able to re-use a conduit relatively inexpensively to upgrade to a 240v circuit of some kind (maybe do a sub-panel). Feel free to post pictures of everything (including your main panel with the cover on and off and the sticker on the door) and we can look at it for you.
As noted above, the switch may be a code requirement just FYI. As long as it is rated for 20a it should be OK.
Well done. Having a new receptacle for an EV charger is a great idea. Cheap insurance!!!
So when you run electricity through the coils in an electric motor as it is operating the wire heats up. The same thing happens with an electric resistive heater. Someone at Tesla realized that they could just run wire through the motor but I think without running power through the opposing coils and so it causes heat to build up without actually creating any torque. Thus using the motor as a resistive heater. It seems like maybe a bad idea, though let's assume it is 6kW worth of heating. I suspect that when actually driving the motor is using a lot more than 6kW, so perhaps it is not an issue? (the cooling system does run when they do this - it uses the coolant to move the heat to the battery)
I have only used 120v to top off charging and have never relied on it for charging so take this with a grain of salt.
IMO, you're spending $50k on the car. Another $1-2k (or less if you can do your own electrical work) for a new circuit & a HPWC is well worth it so that you can fully enjoy the car without thinking about charging (unless you're on a road trip). Everyone's financial & living situation is different so you do the best you can but that's what I did and I couldn't be happier about it.
IMO, you're spending $50k on the car. Another $1-2k (or less if you can do your own electrical work) for a new circuit & a HPWC is well worth it so that you can fully enjoy the car without thinking about charging (unless you're on a road trip). Everyone's financial & living situation is different so you do the best you can but that's what I did and I couldn't be happier about it.
Question for you guys in regards to installing my wall charger...
1. Cost. A loca Tesla certified electrician says since my current 200amp Home panel is overloaded he needs to add a sub panel below it in order to install the 60amp wall charger and also move some of my current slots down to the sub panel. He says the new install with the sub panel and running everything from my basement to the garage will cost $2300. Does that sound reasonable?
2. Location of installation. Should we install the wall charger on the left front wall of the garage or in the middle pillar between the 2 garage doors? I feel like the middle pillar gives us more options of where we can park but the front left side of the wall is where we park most of the time. We have the 24’ cord.
3. I would like the wall charger to run through my current whole house generator but my electrician says that is not recommended by Tesla. It’s a 22kw Generac generator for a 4500 sq ft house- won’t that be able to handle the wall charger if the power goes out? If the power does go out for an extended amount of time I don’t want to be stuck with a car I can’t charge. He says he doesn’t know why Tesla doesn’t recommend charging through the generator. Can anyone shed any light on this?
1. Cost. A loca Tesla certified electrician says since my current 200amp Home panel is overloaded he needs to add a sub panel below it in order to install the 60amp wall charger and also move some of my current slots down to the sub panel. He says the new install with the sub panel and running everything from my basement to the garage will cost $2300. Does that sound reasonable?
2. Location of installation. Should we install the wall charger on the left front wall of the garage or in the middle pillar between the 2 garage doors? I feel like the middle pillar gives us more options of where we can park but the front left side of the wall is where we park most of the time. We have the 24’ cord.
3. I would like the wall charger to run through my current whole house generator but my electrician says that is not recommended by Tesla. It’s a 22kw Generac generator for a 4500 sq ft house- won’t that be able to handle the wall charger if the power goes out? If the power does go out for an extended amount of time I don’t want to be stuck with a car I can’t charge. He says he doesn’t know why Tesla doesn’t recommend charging through the generator. Can anyone shed any light on this?
Yes, I just did the math, and at 60mph(60 miles x 300wh/mi = 18000wh), there's a constant 18kw being turned into motion and heat. I'm sure under max load its several times that. I'm still a little leery about intentionally using motor windings for heat, but I guess I gotta trust the engineers... and my warranty.
jdcollins5
Member
Using an inverter to switch the motor windings and produce zero torque is used all of the time in industries, rather than turning on and off. No big deal and innovative on Tesla’s part rather than using resistive heat.
1) overloaded, or not enough free breaker slots... there's quite a difference. If its really "overloaded", then putting a subpanel off the main panel won't do anything to lighten the load on the main panel. There would be a decent sized breaker feeding that subpanel, and all the power going to that subpanel would be flowing through the main panel/breaker for the house. If its really "not enough free breaker slots", then you might(or might not) be able to change some of the breakers currently there into tandem breakers, where there are two circuits fed by a single breaker slot(and the tandem breaker has two triplevers, so it really is still two separate circuits). Not all panel manufacturers allow for tandem breakers, and there's at least sometimes(like mine, supposedly) a limit to the number of tandem breakers you can have in a panel. They even make duplex tandem breakers, but those are sort of concerning to me...
2) Sounds like you have largely the same situation as me. I didn't want to be dragging the cord back and forth all the time, or stepping over it. Initially I planned to install mine on the center pillar with an 8.5' cord, then decided to swap car locations with the ICE car of the family so I could mount it on the left wall and avoid conduit. Eventually I got a deal on a 24' cord HPWC and found my best-of-most-worlds solution.... I keep my right bay, and run the wire over the left garage bay door opening. If you want to try this... do yourself a favor and mark off a garden hose or somesuch at 24' and see if your installation will work. my 12' garage ceiling complicated the issue, since 24' isn't quite enough to go all the way up, across ~12', and all the way back down...
3) Can't really comment on the generator, but a quick search of the interweb says its possible, but hit-or-miss. That said, a 22kw generator is pretty big, and some of the nasty non-sine ness of cheap generators might not be an issue.
eprosenx
Active Member
FWIW, I don't think cheap generators have bad sine waves (cheap inverters do - but generators are physical things that spin so they should have fine sine waves). I think the bigger issue is worse voltage stability and harmonics and such? I don't exactly know, but yeah, larger generators I am sure are better in general. It probably also depends on what loads you have on the generator. If they are stabile consistent loads that is good, but if you have really bursty workload your voltage may be all over the place as the generator throttle tries to react.
Yes, I agree entirely. Inverters are much more commonly associated with garbage waves. That said, I tried running a big plasma screen(max load like 800 watts, usual load more like 250) on a >6000 watt generator, and it was having a heap of trouble, enough so that I opted to do anything else.
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