Model 3 Coolant Specification

[acarney]

They said the same thing about the engine coolant on recent vehicles. I can find thread after thread on the VW forums about the coolant deteriorating over time, ultimately turning into brown muck. GM had similar issues with Dexcool back in the day.

I always take these "lifetime" recommendations with a grain of salt and do my own research. Trust but verify, although in the case of VW, don't trust.

I would suspect high temperatures would be much harder on coolant then what probably is a fairly "small" working temperature range with the Tesla. I wouldn't think battery temperatures get much above 100 to 120F, even when supercharging (especially when factoring in active cooling with the air conditioner). There are reports from a couple years back of battery temps around 113F while supercharging at ~95kW and the AC not cycling on. 250kW might peak that temp some, but the AC could be turned on to keep it at a manageable level (say 140F or so), and it's a very large mass to heat up and peak supercharging speeds usually don't hold for more then 10 minutes or so.

A car routinely keeps that coolant at near 200F. I'm also not an expert with how the cooling systems on an internal combustion car are built, but there might be more opportunity for contamination to enter the coolant from metal or friction surfaces compared to just circulating though a system that isn't moving or creating friction.

 

[Big Earl]

I would suspect high temperatures would be much harder on coolant then what probably is a fairly "small" working temperature range with the Tesla. I wouldn't think battery temperatures get much above 100 to 120F, even when supercharging (especially when factoring in active cooling with the air conditioner). There are reports from a couple years back of battery temps around 113F while supercharging at ~95kW and the AC not cycling on. 250kW might peak that temp some, but the AC could be turned on to keep it at a manageable level (say 140F or so), and it's a very large mass to heat up and peak supercharging speeds usually don't hold for more then 10 minutes or so.

A car routinely keeps that coolant at near 200F. I'm also not an expert with how the cooling systems on an internal combustion car are built, but there might be more opportunity for contamination to enter the coolant from metal or friction surfaces compared to just circulating though a system that isn't moving or creating friction.

You're right on all counts - operating temperature, contamination and friction. An EV's coolant should hold up very well long term - I just think it's prudent to not take "lifetime" change intervals at face value.

 

[Magnets!]

Changing coolant is typically not a difficult job. Proper disposal is important, but beyond that i'd say on the DIY list it's pretty safe if someone wants to do it themselves.

For an ICE vehicle yes, for a Tesla, I would disagree unless you have a way to open all the necessary valves and pump the fluid out of all the battery channels and then pump the new fluid into all the proper channels with out air gaps. Take a look at the coolant diagram of the 3, it is rather complex.

 

[Feathermerchan]

I agree with questioning 'lifetime'. I always ask "Whose Lifetime?"
A coolant consumable is the anti corrosion chemicals. Ethylene and Propylene Glycol don't expire.
In ICE engines, there can be several types of metal in the cooling system that would cause galvanic corrosion if not for the inhibitors in the coolant. The water pump impeller is typically steel and the pump housing, and heads are Aluminum. The engine block may be cast Iron or Aluminum.

Heat sinks for electronics are usually Aluminum. The drive unit oil-coolant heat exchangers in Teslas looks to be Aluminum. The pump(s) and valves look to be plastic, and I think the battery passages are nonmetallic.

So coolant in Teslas may not need much in the way of anti corrosion properties just anti freeze properties.
At least as far as I know. I do think it would be prudent to check it for level and chemical properties after warranty just to be sure.

Changing it is probably not difficult but I could imagine using a service menu to activate pumps and valves to drain the system. Does anyone know the procedure?

 

[acarney]

You're right on all counts - operating temperature, contamination and friction. An EV's coolant should hold up very well long term - I just think it's prudent to not take "lifetime" change intervals at face value.

Well at least we can all agree that the oil is a life time item with our EVs

 

[Feathermerchan]

Lifetime oil? Never heard of it.
Although our cars do have a filter that looks to be about the size of the one in my wife's Kia engine.
It could be designed to filter out any contaminates that enter thru the air vent and small pieces of metal that occur due to wear.
And there's probably a magnet.

 

[TomB985]

Something that's every few months, I could see, but you're skeptical of a maintenance item that has a change interval of about twice per decade?! That's some next level stuff.

You probably won't ever need to know. The coolant should not be replaced by the end user.

I have a garage full of tools that were acquired replacing things that should never have been replaced by the “end-user“. Some of us don’t like paying a mechanic through things we are capable of on our own.

I’ve been on automotive forums for over 15 years, and this will be the first time I’ve ever been referred to as an “end user”. I’ve been a curious “car guy” my entire life, and I don’t intend on stopping now.

 

[Street_Tuna]

Thanks for all the replies. G48 it is - and coolant spec is VERY important - particularly when its channelled around the battery pack in a possibly electrostatically charged environment. The reason I am asking will become clear in time!

 

[mrfixit]

They said the same thing about the engine coolant on recent vehicles. I can find thread after thread on the VW forums about the coolant deteriorating over time, ultimately turning into brown muck. GM had similar issues with Dexcool back in the day.

I always take these "lifetime" recommendations with a grain of salt and do my own research. Trust but verify, although in the case of VW, don't trust.

listen to big earl im a auto mechanic for 40 years all automotive fluilds break down over time antifreeze,transmission fluilds, and differential never listen to the manufacturers on service they want you to buy a new car

 

[Feathermerchan]

So Consumer Reports rates cars based on (among other things) cost of ownership. If the trans fluid, differential oil, coolant, etc never need to be replaced, the cost of ownership goes down. Hmmm.

Example of do it yourself: I have had a time with aftermarket TPMS on my Model 3. Had one fall off the valve stem inside the tire. Then one that replaced it I could not program. Replaced them all with Tesla OEM via Discount Tire. Rotated tires myself yesterday. While rolling a tire to its new location, I could hear something in the tire. It was another TPMS (Autel not Tesla). DT did not find it while doing the replacement. I doubt if they ever would have found it.

Another: Power steering pump replaced on minivan by dealership BC I was too busy to do it and is was a big job. Got the van back and wife said it would not shift. Checked and it was about 2 qts low on trans fluid. I think dealership drew oil out of trans instead of PS before pump removal then did not replace or even check.

Another: Dealership installed serpentine belt and routed it incorrectly turning WP backwards. Wife said it was making a funny noise. She was right. Ribbed side of belt was running on a flat pulley! The diagram is on a decal under the hood too. Sheesh.

 

[SSedan]

Auto repair techs are parts swappers rewarded for speed speed speed and up-selling, relatively few really understand it all.

 

[diamond.g]

I would suspect high temperatures would be much harder on coolant then what probably is a fairly "small" working temperature range with the Tesla. I wouldn't think battery temperatures get much above 100 to 120F, even when supercharging (especially when factoring in active cooling with the air conditioner). There are reports from a couple years back of battery temps around 113F while supercharging at ~95kW and the AC not cycling on. 250kW might peak that temp some, but the AC could be turned on to keep it at a manageable level (say 140F or so), and it's a very large mass to heat up and peak supercharging speeds usually don't hold for more then 10 minutes or so.

A car routinely keeps that coolant at near 200F. I'm also not an expert with how the cooling systems on an internal combustion car are built, but there might be more opportunity for contamination to enter the coolant from metal or friction surfaces compared to just circulating though a system that isn't moving or creating friction.

IIRC the same coolant goes through the stator and it's temps can reach in the 90's C.

The biggest worry is how all of that is interconnected (yay superbottle) and how air in the lines can really be an issue. Heck IIRC the MCU/AP computer in the 3 is also cooled by the (I think) same coolant and we know they had issues with air in the lines on the HW3 upgrades. @wk057 may know if Tesla Toolbox is required for coolant changes (valve actuation, etc) or if canbus messages can be injected manually to accomplish the same.

 

[woodguyatl]

This is an odd question, so some context on why you need to know this would be more useful.

The battery is not "user-servicable" and knowing a particular detail like this would be for Tesla engineers and reverse-engineers only.

I'm guessing that you are not trying to service the battery, so probably you are mistaken about needing this information.

I looked up the info about a year ago after my dads model s emptied its coolant in my driveway. In particular, my stupid dog drank some. Some information in the manual would have been helpful to the vet.

 

[user212_nr]

I looked up the info about a year ago after my dads model s emptied its coolant in my driveway. In particular, my stupid dog drank some. Some information in the manual would have been helpful to the vet.

Well not so stupid considering that "Propylene glycol is also used in various edible items such as coffee-based drinks, liquid sweeteners, ice cream, whipped dairy products and soda."

Current dog licks the dirt off the floor on occasion along with grass. Last one at his own excrement.

http://www.pethealthnetwork.com/dog-health/dog-behavior/pica-why-do-dogs-eat-strange-things

 

[woodguyatl]

Well not so stupid considering that "Propylene glycol is also used in various edible items such as coffee-based drinks, liquid sweeteners, ice cream, whipped dairy products and soda."

Current dog licks the dirt off the floor on occasion along with grass. Last one at his own excrement.

Pica: Why Do Dogs Eat Strange Things?

The coolant uses ethylene glycol which is fatal in fairly small doses.

 

[Big Earl]

IIRC the same coolant goes through the stator and it's temps can reach in the 90's C.

The biggest worry is how all of that is interconnected (yay superbottle) and how air in the lines can really be an issue. Heck IIRC the MCU/AP computer in the 3 is also cooled by the (I think) same coolant and we know they had issues with air in the lines on the HW3 upgrades. @wk057 may know if Tesla Toolbox is required for coolant changes (valve actuation, etc) or if canbus messages can be injected manually to accomplish the same.

If I remember correctly, the drive unit components are cooled by oil that is in turn cooled by the coolant through an oil-to-water heat exchanger. The coolant doesn't come in direct contact with the motor.

 

[brkaus]

Auto repair techs are parts swappers rewarded for speed speed speed and up-selling, relatively few really understand it all.

Would you like an air filter with that?

 

[Kevy Baby]

Auto repair techs are parts swappers rewarded for speed speed speed and up-selling, relatively few really understand it all.

We still take our ICE vehicle to our mechanic about 25 miles away. Yeah, it's a PITA to go there, but I absolutely trust the guy as I have for 25 years. Never tries to talk me INTO something: he's usually talking me OUT of doing something.

He is probably going to retire soon and I really don't know what I'm going to do.

 

[Big Earl]

We still take our ICE vehicle to our mechanic about 25 miles away. Yeah, it's a PITA to go there, but I absolutely trust the guy as I have for 25 years. Never tries to talk me INTO something: he's usually talking me OUT of doing something.

He is probably going to retire soon and I really don't know what I'm going to do.

Sell your ICE car.

 

[Kevy Baby]

Sell your ICE car.

The one thing my wife wants in a car is to sit high (she has a Toyota Tacoma). The X doesn't sit high enough. She doesn't like the look of the CybrTrk, but I have a couple of years to swing her (assuming it sits high enough).