Um I did acknowledge it. I said it was an advantage for Tesla. And I said I wished the BMW was lighter. What more would like from me? I also said that the 2 cars are virtually even on the street in terms of range and performance. If you feel like a better man because the Tesla is .1 to .2 faster to 60, all the power to you. I’ll trade the .1-.2 for comfort, a real suspension and yes, a “proper” interior.
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Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]
- Thread starter Daniel L
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Maybe acknowledge the actual reason it's much heavier (it's built on an ICE platform, not a purpose built EV) rather than claim it's only heavier because it has nicer interior materials?
It's not a "choice" for luxury, it's an engineering compromise for cost and lack of resources.
MSRP on the M3P is $50,990.
MSRP on the i4M50 is $69,700- add the driver assist features to make it comparable to the free AP on the Tesla and it's $74,045--- about 1/3rd more money for a car that's not just a couple tenths slower, but 10% less range, and handles like a fat pig. It'd be even more embarrassing if it didn't at least have a few bucks in soundproofing for that extra 20k to get a worse-spec heavier car.
I got $11,000 off my 24 i4. So $62,000. Have you driven one or are you just sitting here throwing grenades? In real world range tests it matches the M3P. Let’s not forget the M3P underperforms its EPA rated range by a lot.
It’s laughable that you call it worse spec. That’s YOUR definition tied solely to zero to 60.
How about that range:
Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds
Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.
www.edmunds.com
Looks like the M3P didn’t perform very well. The M50 they tested had 20s. Mine has 19s and will probably beat the M3P handily. Maybe you should acknowledge that the M3P was the worst performing EV against rated range in the entire test.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
And range.
And price.
And efficiency.
And handling
Remember this one?
BMW i4 Is A Moose Test Disappointment, No Match For Tesla Model 3
The rear-wheel drive i4’s speed through the obstacle avoidance maneuver was 10 km/h or 6 mph off a Model 3 Performance.
insideevs.com
Heck while we're at it:
2022 BMW i4 M50 Earns Its M Badge
BMW's 536-hp i4 M50 brings the brand's most celebrated performance symbol into the electric era.
www.caranddriver.com
2024 Tesla Model 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs
Say what you will about Tesla and its leader, Elon Musk, but the Model 3 EV sedan changed the rules of the EV game, and it gets important updates this year.
www.caranddriver.com
Tesla better in all 5 specs cited here.
Used 2022 BMW i4 M50 Specs & Features | Edmunds
Detailed specs and features for the Used 2022 BMW i4 M50 including dimensions, horsepower, engine, capacity, fuel economy, transmission, engine type, cylinders, drivetrain and more.
www.edmunds.com
Overall length 188.5. It's bigger outside and smaller inside- worst of both worlds.
Cargo capacity all seats in place: 10 cubic feet, turning circle 41 feet. Max payload 926.
Used 2022 Tesla Model 3 Specs & Features | Edmunds
Detailed specs and features for the Used 2022 Tesla Model 3 including dimensions, horsepower, engine, capacity, fuel economy, transmission, engine type, cylinders, drivetrain and more.
www.edmunds.com
Overall length 184.8, shorter but more interior space.
Cargo cap all seats in place 22.9 cu feet, turning circle 38.8 ft
Tesla better in all 7 specs.
But sure, only 0-60 is better on the Tesla.
Apart from how gross dealing with car dealers is, I'm not sure bragging you "only" paid $11,000 more for a slower, heaver, smaller-inside, poorer handling car is the flex you think it is.
EDIT_ my bad--- I totally forgot the Tesla gets the $7500 IRA credit and the BMW does not.
So you're bragging you only paid $18,500 more for a slower, heaver, smaller-inside, poorer handling car... my apologies for the error!
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It’s laughable that you call it worse spec. That’s YOUR definition tied solely to zero to 60.
How about that range:
Edmunds Tested: Electric Car Range and Consumption | Edmunds
Which EVs have the best electric car range? The EPA provides range estimates for every electric vehicle, but they don't test EV range in the real world -- and Edmunds does. Read all the latest real-world EV test results from the Edmunds experts.www.edmunds.com
Looks like the M3P didn’t perform very well. The M50 they tested had 20s. Mine has 19s and will probably beat the M3P handily. Maybe you should acknowledge that the M3P was the worst performing EV against rated range in the entire test.
That was a 2018 M3P. The newer ones are more efficient due to all the improvements (heat pump, battery, etc...).
The test also ran a new M3P and it still underperformed by 10% - well below EPA range. Just not as bad as the 2018.
I don't qualify for any tax credits my man so that means nothing to me. It's good to see that you are able to accept that the M3P may not be god's gift to cars. It's a econobox with a big motor. Maybe you should acknowledge that not everyone wants that. But for you to sit here and crap on the BMW as if it is some sort of POS tells me you are just a blind Tesla fanboy. I asked you if you have driven an M50 and you haven't answered me. So I assume the answer is no. And in that case, your opinion is basically worthless anyway. At least others here can have a spirited discussion over the pros and cons of each car. But then you jumped in and started trolling.And range.
And price.
And efficiency.
And handling
Remember this one?
BMW i4 Is A Moose Test Disappointment, No Match For Tesla Model 3
The rear-wheel drive i4’s speed through the obstacle avoidance maneuver was 10 km/h or 6 mph off a Model 3 Performance.
Heck while we're at it:
0-60 3.5, 1/4 mile 12.1, MPGe 85, curb weight 5050, MSRP comparable over 75k2022 BMW i4 M50 Earns Its M Badge
BMW's 536-hp i4 M50 brings the brand's most celebrated performance symbol into the electric era.
0-60 3.1, 1/4 mile 11.6, MPGe 94, curb weight 4072. MSRP comparable just over 50k.2024 Tesla Model 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs
Say what you will about Tesla and its leader, Elon Musk, but the Model 3 EV sedan changed the rules of the EV game, and it gets important updates this year.
Tesla better in all 5 specs cited here.
BMW front head/leg room: 38.2, 41.5; Rear 36.6, 34.2Used 2022 BMW i4 M50 Specs & Features | Edmunds
Detailed specs and features for the Used 2022 BMW i4 M50 including dimensions, horsepower, engine, capacity, fuel economy, transmission, engine type, cylinders, drivetrain and more.www.edmunds.com
Overall length 188.5. It's bigger outside and smaller inside- worst of both worlds.
Cargo capacity all seats in place: 10 cubic feet, turning circle 41 feet. Max payload 926.
Model 3 front head/leg room: 40.3, 42.7; Rear 37.7, 35.2Used 2022 Tesla Model 3 Specs & Features | Edmunds
Detailed specs and features for the Used 2022 Tesla Model 3 including dimensions, horsepower, engine, capacity, fuel economy, transmission, engine type, cylinders, drivetrain and more.www.edmunds.com
Overall length 184.8, shorter but more interior space.
Cargo cap all seats in place 22.9 cu feet, turning circle 38.8 ft
Tesla better in all 7 specs.
But sure, only 0-60 is better on the Tesla.
Apart from how gross dealing with car dealers is, I'm not sure bragging you "only" paid $11,000 more for a slower, heaver, smaller-inside, poorer handling car is the flex you think it is.
EDIT_ my bad--- I totally forgot the Tesla gets the $7500 IRA credit and the BMW does not.
So you're bragging you only paid $18,500 more for a slower, heaver, smaller-inside, poorer handling car... my apologies for the error!
Gauss Guzzler
Safety Score = 42
I 100% agree with @clerks that this banter about a fraction of a second here and a more supple material there is pointless. Every car has slightly different pros/cons and every owner has slightly different tastes. It's great that a handful of good options exist in this segment.
But cost is a more universally tangible metric and I am shocked by this claim of $62K. One of the huge disadvantages to BMW's is that there's no way anyone could ever know the price without actually buying one. And even that requires an entire day of torture while the salesperson and sales manager beat you down with their same old good-cop/bad-cop routine.
So @clerks, since you're one of the only people in the world to have uncovered the price of a BMW, would you be willing to show the actual MVPA?
Here's mine for good faith:
Why are you citing i4 e35 RWD specs when we are talking about the i4 M50? Just more evidence of trolling.And range.
And price.
And efficiency.
And handling
Remember this one?
BMW i4 Is A Moose Test Disappointment, No Match For Tesla Model 3
The rear-wheel drive i4’s speed through the obstacle avoidance maneuver was 10 km/h or 6 mph off a Model 3 Performance.
Heck while we're at it:
0-60 3.5, 1/4 mile 12.1, MPGe 85, curb weight 5050, MSRP comparable over 75k2022 BMW i4 M50 Earns Its M Badge
BMW's 536-hp i4 M50 brings the brand's most celebrated performance symbol into the electric era.
0-60 3.1, 1/4 mile 11.6, MPGe 94, curb weight 4072. MSRP comparable just over 50k.2024 Tesla Model 3 Review, Pricing, and Specs
Say what you will about Tesla and its leader, Elon Musk, but the Model 3 EV sedan changed the rules of the EV game, and it gets important updates this year.
Tesla better in all 5 specs cited here.
BMW front head/leg room: 38.2, 41.5; Rear 36.6, 34.2Used 2022 BMW i4 M50 Specs & Features | Edmunds
Detailed specs and features for the Used 2022 BMW i4 M50 including dimensions, horsepower, engine, capacity, fuel economy, transmission, engine type, cylinders, drivetrain and more.www.edmunds.com
Overall length 188.5. It's bigger outside and smaller inside- worst of both worlds.
Cargo capacity all seats in place: 10 cubic feet, turning circle 41 feet. Max payload 926.
Model 3 front head/leg room: 40.3, 42.7; Rear 37.7, 35.2Used 2022 Tesla Model 3 Specs & Features | Edmunds
Detailed specs and features for the Used 2022 Tesla Model 3 including dimensions, horsepower, engine, capacity, fuel economy, transmission, engine type, cylinders, drivetrain and more.www.edmunds.com
Overall length 184.8, shorter but more interior space.
Cargo cap all seats in place 22.9 cu feet, turning circle 38.8 ft
Tesla better in all 7 specs.
But sure, only 0-60 is better on the Tesla.
Apart from how gross dealing with car dealers is, I'm not sure bragging you "only" paid $11,000 more for a slower, heaver, smaller-inside, poorer handling car is the flex you think it is.
EDIT_ my bad--- I totally forgot the Tesla gets the $7500 IRA credit and the BMW does not.
So you're bragging you only paid $18,500 more for a slower, heaver, smaller-inside, poorer handling car... my apologies for the error!
Don't be shocked. The market is soft and cars aren't selling. I got my i4 with $7500 lease cash plus an 8% discount off of MSRP. I used a broker. I am buying a car with an MSRP of $74000 for $62,000. I am buying the lease out immediately. I leased it for one month to get the lease cash. If you head over to the BMW forums, you will see that big discounts are available on these cars. So the real world price differences are much smaller. I can give anyone the name of the broker and you can get the exact same deal. Feel free to peruse this thread. $7500 lease cash plus 8% off MSRP and you can immediately buy out the lease and finance the car with a bank of your own choosing.
By the way, for those lamenting the experience of dealing with a car dealer, I highly recommend a broker. I literally walked in to the dealership and picked up the car. No haggling. No nothing. Best $500 I could spend.Don't be shocked. The market is soft and cars aren't selling. I got my i4 with $7500 lease cash plus an 8% discount off of MSRP. I used a broker. I am buying a car with an MSRP of $74000 for $62,000. I am buying the lease out immediately. I leased it for one month to get the lease cash. If you head over to the BMW forums, you will see that big discounts are available on these cars. So the real world price differences are much smaller. I can give anyone the name of the broker and you can get the exact same deal. Feel free to peruse this thread. $7500 lease cash plus 8% off MSRP and you can immediately buy out the lease and finance the car with a bank of your own choosing.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
And not as bad as the range on the i4 M50
All the spec links literally say i4 M50
Beyond that...are you under the impression the e35 magically has a bunch less interior space than the M50 version of the same vehicle to where the version would even matter?
Or did you ONLY read the moose test link and ignore all the other ones directly debunking your nonsense?
Good news, if you don't make enough to have $7500 in tax liability that won't be an issue after Jan 1 anymore, so the Tesla will be nearly 20k cheaper than what you claim you paid for the slower, smaller interior, worse handling, less cargo space, BMW.... (and about [B}$30,000 less than the MSRP on your car[/B])
In fact with the tax credit you could buy an M3P and a normal RWD M3 for about the MSRP on that BMW.
Seems a lot to pay for more soundproofing. Maybe just take the Tesla to a good audio shop, have them dynamat the hell out of it, and pocket the tens of thousands in cash left over while enjoying better performance, more interior space, better handling, more cargo room, more range and efficiency, a vastly better charging network, etc?
Well... perhaps BMWs are not. Tesla will deliver roughly 50% more cars this year than they did last year.
I dunno that I'd call nearly $20,000 with the tax credit "small"
Holy cow dude... you paid someone $500 to negotiate with a dealer for you. To get a car with worse specs for a ton more net cost.
You are the perfect legacy auto customer.
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No dude, I make too much to qualify for any tax credit. Are you that clueless. As far a lease brokers go, you again understand nothing about it. Lease brokers have relationships with dealers and as a result can offer discounts that normal people cannot negotiate. Yes, I paid $500 to save $11,000. What a fool I am. Maybe if you considered for one second that there other cars on the planet not made by Tesla that people actually buy, you would realize that there are other ways to buy a car. Maybe spend some time researching things before dumping on them. Lease hackr.com is a good place to start. And since I've now asked you three times if you driven an M50, I think everyone here knows that you haven't and therefore aren't qualified to comment on them. Enjoy your M3P you blind fanboy, ITS THE GREATEST CAR IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!And not as bad as the range on the i4 M50
All the spec links literally say i4 M50
Beyond that...are you under the impression the e35 magically has a bunch less interior space than the M50 version of the same vehicle to where the version would even matter?
Or did you ONLY read the moose test link and ignore all the other ones directly debunking your nonsense?
Good news, if you don't make enough to have $7500 in tax liability that won't be an issue after Jan 1 anymore, so the Tesla will be nearly 20k cheaper than what you claim you paid for the slower, smaller interior, worse handling, less cargo space, BMW.... (and about [B}$30,000 less than the MSRP on your car[/B])
In fact with the tax credit you could buy an M3P and a normal RWD M3 for about the MSRP on that BMW.
Seems a lot to pay for more soundproofing. Maybe just take the Tesla to a good audio shop, have them dynamat the hell out of it, and pocket the tens of thousands in cash left over while enjoying better performance, more interior space, better handling, more cargo room, more range and efficiency, a vastly better charging network, etc?
Well... perhaps BMWs are not. Tesla will deliver roughly 50% more cars this year than they did last year.
I dunno that I'd call nearly $20,000 with the tax credit "small"
Holy cow dude... you paid someone $500 to negotiate with a dealer for you. To get a car with worse specs for a ton more net cost.
You are the perfect legacy auto customer.
You talk like you are a shareholder and not a car enthusiast. A real enthusiast would recognize that people have different things they prioritize in a car. Your unwillingness to even acknowledge that the BMW is a worthy competitor to the M3 makes you look foolish, arrogant and frankly ignorant.And not as bad as the range on the i4 M50
All the spec links literally say i4 M50
Beyond that...are you under the impression the e35 magically has a bunch less interior space than the M50 version of the same vehicle to where the version would even matter?
Or did you ONLY read the moose test link and ignore all the other ones directly debunking your nonsense?
Good news, if you don't make enough to have $7500 in tax liability that won't be an issue after Jan 1 anymore, so the Tesla will be nearly 20k cheaper than what you claim you paid for the slower, smaller interior, worse handling, less cargo space, BMW.... (and about [B}$30,000 less than the MSRP on your car[/B])
In fact with the tax credit you could buy an M3P and a normal RWD M3 for about the MSRP on that BMW.
Seems a lot to pay for more soundproofing. Maybe just take the Tesla to a good audio shop, have them dynamat the hell out of it, and pocket the tens of thousands in cash left over while enjoying better performance, more interior space, better handling, more cargo room, more range and efficiency, a vastly better charging network, etc?
Well... perhaps BMWs are not. Tesla will deliver roughly 50% more cars this year than they did last year.
I dunno that I'd call nearly $20,000 with the tax credit "small"
Holy cow dude... you paid someone $500 to negotiate with a dealer for you. To get a car with worse specs for a ton more net cost.
You are the perfect legacy auto customer.
Is this really your argument? I just said that the BMW is available with deep discounts. Of course they discount to move cars. In fact, there's another car (err Tech?) company that discounts prices when they want to spur sales. I wonder who they are? Hmmm.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Weird you claim to be the car enthusiast while buying the heavier, worse handling, slower car...
I dunno-- I'm the one who cited multiple sources for the Tesla beating the BMW on a bunch of different specs beyond 0-60 while costing 20 grand less.
You're the one insisting it's just 0-60 and anyone who says otherwise is trolling.
At least we agree someone is clueless in this thread
(speaking of, more on how you could've gotten the credit regardless of income below)
Man, spending more to get less is REALLY complex, so much so you have to pay a third party to figure it out for you... doesn't seem worth it compared to getting the much cheaper, better spec, vehicle--- even if you have to spend a tiny fraction of the tens of thousands saved to add some soundproofing.
BTW- if your lease dude was so good he would've explained to you that you COULD benefit from the $7500 tax credit on the Model 3 Performance via a 3rd party lease-since it ignores the income limits. Which is literally the same way you got the $7500 "lease credit" on your much more expensive but lower spec BMW.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Then why'd you buy the BMW that has less headroom, less legroom (both front and rear for both) and less cargo space, is slower, has less range, worse turning circle and handling, plus a useless transmission tunnel?
The only thing that doesn't SCREAM econobox in comparison is the fact the actual MPGe is worse
Dude, let it go. You're making a fool of yourself. Seriously. Stop.Then why'd you buy the BMW that has less headroom, less legroom (both front and rear for both) and less cargo space, is slower, has less range, worse turning circle and handling, plus a useless transmission tunnel?
The only thing that doesn't SCREAM econobox in comparison is the fact the actual MPGe is worse
