Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]

[Izzyz28]

A lot of wishful thinking in here. Realistically, it's going to have some new seats, no stalks, slightly different headlights and styling that no one outside a Tesla nerd will notice, and a Ludicrous mode of some kind. If it is able to run a 10.80 or better I will be absolutely astonished. An upgrade from the current P for sure, but who honestly thinks Tesla is going to pack 800+ horsepower in the car and keep the price anywhere close to attractive, nevermind coming in under $55K tax credit cap? A lightly used Plaid can now be had for $65K-$80K, so keep that in mind if you want the real deal.

 

[terranx]

Good point. Yeah, I think it should be faster than the LR. Definitely 0-60. Quarter mile might be hard. The LR S has the exact same battery as the Plaid, so it can pull really high peak kW. So, the long range is limited by the two motors at low speeds, but can start to pick up speed later in the quarter since it isn't limited by the battery.

Same two motors in the model 3 with 700 lbs less weight would be pretty fast, but slightly limited by the battery in the 3.

Did they update the voltage on the highland 3? A quick search seems like no. So, lower voltage in the 3 won't help either.

So I did some data logging of the X LR, I think the front motor is being limited pretty hard.

Speed vs Power

RPM vs Power/Torque (rough calculation from power/speed)

Voltage / Current vs Speed (SoC 77%)

The rear motor in the model 3 performance is the same as the S/X LR, so we can see there is room to increase the power on the M3P rear motor. And sticking the S/X front motor and uncorking it should give it pretty impressive performance off the line and to the 1/4 mile. Front motor should be capable of similar power to the rear, but it is geared longer so its peak power would come in later.

Power wise, I think at least at 100% SoC the M3P should be capable of holding 350v @ ~1400ish A which seems to be the peak the X hit (at 77% SoC)

 

[clerks]

Agree to disagree. The m-line is not real M. They are much closer to the base models than they are to true M cars. They don't use S series motors developed by M. They don't have any suspension components from the real M cars. It's just an appearance pack with more power and some standard performance options like adaptive suspension and "sport" seats that you can get on the base car anyway. In some ways I'd say the current M3P is akin to an m-line car over the dual-motor.

This the quote I was responding to: "and the M-Line is just the appearance package..."

That quote is not correct. M-Sport models have increased performance, brakes and suspension versus the next model down. You can get some but not all of the same options on lower models - the powertrain being the one that you cannot get without going with the M-sport. No one said M-sports are true M Cars. Not even BMW. The BMW hierarchy is very clear: base, M-Sport, M. M-sport has increased performance - not just looks. They sell a ton of them because the M-Sport line finds a balance between sport/performance upgrades and daily driving (and cost). It's the same as what Audi does: base, S, RS. The M-Sport models now occupy the S slot. The question for Tesla is do they want the M3P to compete with an Audi S, BMW M-Sport or an Audi RS and a BMW M. At least in 2018, it was the latter.

 

[clerks]

A lot of wishful thinking in here. Realistically, it's going to have some new seats, no stalks, slightly different headlights and styling that no one outside a Tesla nerd will notice, and a Ludicrous mode of some kind. If it is able to run a 10.80 or better I will be absolutely astonished. An upgrade from the current P for sure, but who honestly thinks Tesla is going to pack 800+ horsepower in the car and keep the price anywhere close to attractive, nevermind coming in under $55K tax credit cap? A lightly used Plaid can now be had for $65K-$80K, so keep that in mind if you want the real deal.

With the market on the S and Plaid where it is, Tesla has to be careful on threading the needle here. Cannibalizing your own product is a big deal. Not everyone will cross shop the two but many will. I could definitely see a buyer saying "why not get a Model S for $5k more?" Maybe they will just kill the Plaid and S anyway at this point as there is virtually no market for them at current prices. I even think 55k on the m3p will be pushing it in today’s market although I can't see it being less than that. i4 M50s are currently being sold brand new with discounts/incentives at or around 60k (75k msrp). Not trying to start a flame war over which is better etc. - it's just an example of the current EV market for what is likely the M3P's closest current competitor (yes, I know about the Hyundai and I know the M3P is faster/lighter etc). At least in the US, the anti-EV sentiment is really driving prices on EVs down.

 

[n2mb_racing]

With the market on the S and Plaid where it is, Tesla has to be careful on threading the needle here. Cannibalizing your own product is a big deal. Not everyone will cross shop the two but many will. I could definitely see a buyer saying "why not get a Model S for $5k more?" Maybe they will just kill the Plaid and S anyway at this point as there is virtually no market for them at current prices. I even think 55k on the m3p will be pushing it in today’s market although I can't see it being less than that. i4 M50s are currently being sold brand new with discounts/incentives at or around 60k (75k msrp). Not trying to start a flame war over which is better etc. - it's just an example of the current EV market for what is likely the M3P's closest current competitor (yes, I know about the Hyundai and I know the M3P is faster/lighter etc). At least in the US, the anti-EV sentiment is really driving prices on EVs down.

I cross shopped the Taycan turbo S and the Lucid Air. The Plaid is still the best for half the price. Maybe different when they all get NACS next year, but for now it's hard to buy anything else.

 

[clerks]

I cross shopped the Taycan turbo S and the Lucid Air. The Plaid is still the best for half the price. Maybe different when they all get NACS next year, but for now it's hard to buy anything else.

I mean the plaid doesn't handle like a Taycan but certainly can argue it doesn't need to for half the price.

Anyway, the question being asked here is whether you would play $55k plus for an M3P when an S and maybe even a Plaid is in shooting distance of that?

 

[terranx]

I mean the plaid doesn't handle like a Taycan but certainly can argue it doesn't need to for half the price.

Anyway, the question being asked here is whether you would play $55k plus for an M3P when an S and maybe even a Plaid is in shooting distance of that?

I wouldn’t consider $75k and $90k to be in shooting distance of $55k.

 

[n2mb_racing]

I mean the plaid doesn't handle like a Taycan but certainly can argue it doesn't need to for half the price.

Anyway, the question being asked here is whether you would play $55k plus for an M3P when an S and maybe even a Plaid is in shooting distance of that?

I couldn't feel a dramatic difference when driving the Taycan turbo S. Maybe some bias going into the reviews knowing the Taycan costs twice as much, so it must be better. The lap times around various tracks don't show a big difference either. Except the upcoming Taycan gt....

 

[terranx]

I couldn't feel a dramatic difference when driving the Taycan turbo S. Maybe some bias going into the reviews knowing the Taycan costs twice as much, so it must be better. The lap times around various tracks don't show a big difference either. Except the upcoming Taycan gt....

Those lap times are with the car being short like 400hp though. That’s a lot of power to make up with handling.

 

[Tiger]

I wouldn’t consider $75k and $90k to be in shooting distance of $55k.

Back in the day M3P did cost that and with inflation even more.

 

[momo3605]

I couldn't feel a dramatic difference when driving the Taycan turbo S. Maybe some bias going into the reviews knowing the Taycan costs twice as much, so it must be better. The lap times around various tracks don't show a big difference either. Except the upcoming Taycan gt....

Difference was night and day to me. Even the lucid compared to plaid. Steering feel and suspension damping, lack of body roll are on another level.

 

[n2mb_racing]

Difference was night and day to me. Even the lucid compared to plaid. Steering feel and suspension damping, lack of body roll are on another level.

Did you try track mode? That's night and day on the plaid.

 

[clerks]

I wouldn’t consider $75k and $90k to be in shooting distance of $55k.

You would if you could get a 1 year old used S or plaid for 60 to 65k which one can do right this second. At least I would.

 

[clerks]

I couldn't feel a dramatic difference when driving the Taycan turbo S. Maybe some bias going into the reviews knowing the Taycan costs twice as much, so it must be better. The lap times around various tracks don't show a big difference either. Except the upcoming Taycan gt....

It’s fine to like/love the Plaid but it doesn’t handle like a Taycan. This is well settled at this point.

 

[gearchruncher]

Even the lucid compared to plaid.

It's interesting to bring the Luicd into this, as it's quicker than the Plaid in a straight line, and the the Savagegeese reviewers basically call the Luicd Sapphire the best car they have ever driven with impccable handling qualities. The thing runs near GT3 lap times on PS4S street tires and no aero while the GT3 is on Cup 2 R's and runs huge aero. While it doesn't get the press the Porsche does, in reality it's probably the EV benchmark for both quarter mile and lap times.

 

[n2mb_racing]

You would if you could get a 1 year old used S or plaid for 60 to 65k which one can do right this second. At least I would.

I've been watching those too, but all I see are 2021 Plaids for $69k. They usually include FSD and 21s, so that's a nice upgrade. A 2022 sold for $75k around me which I considered, but it was before the '22 updates, so for all purposes, it was a 2021. I see some '23s in the $80k range, but for that price, might as well spend $89k and go new...

 

[n2mb_racing]

It’s fine to like/love the Plaid but it doesn’t handle like a Taycan. This is well settled at this point.

<shrug> Maybe I didn't get to really drive it hard enough with the sales guy in the car? It felt good, but basically the same as my old Plaid. Also important to note that when the Plaid first launched, the suspension settings probably didn't do anything. They were fixed in software years later. Tesla quality right there....

 

[Lolo780]

I've been watching those too, but all I see are 2021 Plaids for $69k. They usually include FSD and 21s, so that's a nice upgrade. A 2022 sold for $75k around me which I considered, but it was before the '22 updates, so for all purposes, it was a 2021. I see some '23s in the $80k range, but for that price, might as well spend $89k and go new...

Yep, the people saying you can get a Plaid for 60k haven't actually looked at those junky cars.

 

[clerks]

I've been watching those too, but all I see are 2021 Plaids for $69k. They usually include FSD and 21s, so that's a nice upgrade. A 2022 sold for $75k around me which I considered, but it was before the '22 updates, so for all purposes, it was a 2021. I see some '23s in the $80k range, but for that price, might as well spend $89k and go n

A quick search on TrueCar shows several 2022 plaids listed around 70k in my area. Given current EV pricing and car dealers desires to rid themselves of anything EV related, I think 65k is achievable but even at 70k, that's close. A better comp might be a regular S anyway.

 

[terranx]

Back in the day M3P did cost that and with inflation even more.

But that's not today.

You would if you could get a 1 year old used S or plaid for 60 to 65k which one can do right this second. At least I would.

Those under 70k Plaids are pretty rare. And not every one wants a used car. Especially a used Tesla