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Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]
- Thread starter Daniel L
- Start date
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
580 at the motors per CANBUS data
And a bit over 520 at the wheels, per actual physical dynos-
Here's 522 and 523 on a physical dyno where they tested two different M3Ps
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Do you seriously think a 4,100 lb car can do an 11.17 @ 120 mph with a fixed gear and only 460 HP?
The HP numbers Tesla puts on the spec sheets are just a complete lie. It isn’t remotely close to 460 HP. They must be giving an average HP or something because that isn’t a reasonable number for max HP.
I have seen 609 HP at the battery and 535 whp is realistic if you fully precondition a 100% SOC battery. They never precondition for the Dyno runs. It makes a GIGANTIC difference.
This graph shows the HP difference between Track Mode with a lower SOC and a fully preconditioned battery.
CarWow always runs in Track Mode with a depleted battery. They intentionally cripple the Tesla vehicles because their viewers don’t want to see them win every time.
There seems to be conflicting data on the HP output but I stand corrected.
Regardless of what the true hp is at, I hope that the new version will not run out of pace above 100 mph vs its EV /ICE competitors. That's what I personally want to see.
ODWms
Member
I absolutely love this car. Best I’ve owned by leagues. But I agree an Achilles heel of the P3D is the “fall off” at speed. I would love to see this improved in the Highland. It would be a crime if not.
There is definitely conflicting information out there and Tesla is definitely not reporting accurate information to the EPA. Look at this screenshot from the EPA website. Tesla is reporting that the 2023 Model 3 Performance has a combined 321 KW of power. That is 430 HP. That is laughably absurd, and they told the EPA this information, and the EPA printed it.
It is important to note why electric single speed transmission vehicles are so different for dyno pulls. With a normal ICE vehicle you typically test in the 1:1 gear ratio which is normally 4th-5th gear. You are probably doing 100+ mph when you hit max HP with an ICE car. As RPMS increase torque decreases for constant HP.
When you test at a high vehicle/tire speed you have low wheel torque even for moderate HP.
However, with single speed EVs you have to start the dyno run at basically 0 mph(vehicle/tire speed) to get the full torque curve. You hit max torque by 6 mph and you hit max HP by 55 mph instead of over 100+ mph in some cases with ICE cars. Torque at 55 mph is DRASTICALLY different than torque at 110 mph for the same HP value. This is why the dynos freak out sometimes and say torque limit reached for EVs.
A physical Dyno pull is not really that relevant for EVs because the dynos aren't designed to measure the full curve of a single speed transmission EV. Honestly, the rolling dyno pulls are much more accurate and relevant. They give you an accurate and precise measurement of the entire power curve coming out of the battery for a real acceleration test. That data is so much more useful than someone putting it on the dyno and saying we couldn't go full throttle for much of the torque curve because our dyno can't handle it.
People should stop worrying about the max HP that the Model 3 Performance makes and only worry about the 60', 0-60 mph, 1/4 mile, and 60-130 mph times it can reliably produce. The HP curve for the Model 3 isn't even flat right now. The reason max HP is so relevant for ICE vehicles is that their HP curves are typically flat through most of the rev range between gears. Once you are out of 1st gear in an ICE car you basically maintain max HP for the rest of the run at full throttle. For ICE cars max HP tells you a lot of information for every acceleration metric except the 60'.
For EVs max HP is pretty much only relevant for the 50-60 mph time. That is it.
I find it very interesting that the upcoming Hyundai Ioniq 5 N is rated for 448 KW or 601 HP in the normal mode. The highest KW value I have seen in my 2022 Model 3 Performance as a real-time measurement was 448 or 602 HP when rounded. Model 3 Performance has an 82.1 KWh battery and the Ioniq 5 N has an 84 KWh battery. I am guessing that Tesla will state a HP value finally for the Tesla Model 3 Ludicrous and it will at the very least exceed the 478 KW(641 HP) value for the Ioniq 5 N Grin Boost mode.
Someone already claims to have tested an Ioniq 5 N on Dragy and here are the results. Expect the much lighter Tesla Model 3 Ludicrous to exceed these numbers by a fair bit.
Someone already claims to have tested an Ioniq 5 N on Dragy and here are the results. Expect the much lighter Tesla Model 3 Ludicrous to exceed these numbers by a fair bit.
If it will dip into the 10s in the quarter mile, I will eliminate the BMW M3 as one of other choices. Love to have a Plaid, but it is such a big heavy car to my liking. Plus it may not fit into my single car garage. lol..
I am sure BMW will eventually have an EV M4 that will will be quite impressive. I like the Plaid too but I have the same issue with the size and weight of it. I can't fit it in my garage.
I think we are 3-4 years away from some serious performance EVs. I can't image what BMW/Audi and others are going to do with all electric RS/M cars as battery breakthroughs allow for less weight, better range and more power. It's going to be good to be alive.
11.1 @ 123? That's faster than 99.9999% of all Tesla Model 3 Performances out there. But, the North American version seems to be headed to a price range closer to the Model S Long Range, which is the faster car. If I'm spending that much (and dealer markup needs to be factored in as well) I'd rather get a Model S Long Range that does 10's @ 129 than the Ionic.
Tesla Model 3 Performance locked in for early 2024 debut
Tesla Model 3 Performance locked in for early 2024 debut
Tesla Model 3 Performance locked in for early 2024 debut
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE from link]Tesla has confirmed it will revive the Tesla Model 3 Performance variant early in 2024.
And buyers looking for big performance in the EV should be ready for a few surprises – at least according to Daniel Ho, the Australian chief engineer who helped pull the covers off the first arrivals of the heavily updated Model 3 Rear-Wheel Drive and Long Range in Sydney today.[/QUOTE]
But then it gives no sourcing, and all the links that SEEM like they'd be sourcing or direct quotes, go to much older stories that aren't.
Then the content of this story is almost entirely speculation about what COULD be in a performance variant, even that being super vague like we already have track mode but tesla controls software so we could get more! type stuff.
I spent a minute seeing if there was better sourcing/direct quotes around but couldn't find any at this time.
But then it gives no sourcing, and all the links that SEEM like they'd be sourcing or direct quotes, go to much older stories that aren't.
Then the content of this story is almost entirely speculation about what COULD be in a performance variant, even that being super vague like we already have track mode but tesla controls software so we could get more! type stuff.
I spent a minute seeing if there was better sourcing/direct quotes around but couldn't find any at this time.
[/QUOTE]
You are definitely right on all aspects of that. However, I think their assertions will actually turn out to be true. There is so much more they could do with that car even without having a tri-motor setup.
Just the Model S LR motors alone would significantly change the acceleration of this car. Wider and better tires in the rear and update the suspension and this car would be a whole different animal.
Having put wider tires and better dampers on an M3LR with AB, I concur. I hope the wheels on the new M3P will be something other than 20” pothole magnets, though. 275/35R19 on 19x9.5 (or 19x10, for that matter) is extraordinarily sticky.
The Model S Plaid Track Pack puts 285/35R20 tires on the front and 305/30R20 tires on the back, both 100TW Supercar 3Rs. The rears are 20x11, which wouldn’t fit the Model 3 without aggressive bodywork. But the equivalent fronts (19x10 +35 or so) could fit an M3P front and rear. The odds that you’d break loose 275mm tires even with 750bhp equivalent are… low.
It has been repeatedly noted by many different people that wider tires and better dampers are the two best things that can be added to a model 3. This is because it’s true. Would be great if Tesla prioritized funsies over range and practicality in the new M3P. It’s such a fun platform, why not let it rip…
About 200lbs. I actually had this exact thought while having a windshield replaced, so the sales lady and I calculated the net difference. If you also increase the battery to 100kWh, the 450 pound difference between an M3P and an MSLR is essentially a wash.
