Model 3 Highland Performance/Plaid Speculation [Car announced 04.23.2024]

[Sam1]

Tesla didn't even have a car on the market in the early 2000s. First delivery of a roadster 1st gen was 2008.

Which is something most people ARE aware of

You can learn something too.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/motor-city

But we don’t. Like the GM cars, and like other AC electric car motors, we feed the motor with a variable frequency AC waveform, using frequency to regulate torque and therefore speed.

 

[gearchruncher]

You can learn something too.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/motor-city

OMG, The dunning kruger here is so strong.

A blog from 2006 talking about how Tesla uses AC motors instead of DC ones like the GM EV1 from 1996? The AC motors that every single EV has basically used since then once computers and power electronics became affordable and isn't special to Tesla in any way in 2024 (just like the blog says)? The same AC motor drive that you can buy for $10 today for a cheap RC car?

Yes, an AC motor requires a frequency drive to be commutated. Only been known since the 1880's!

Please, please, please look up motor drive inverters and learn more. Yes, they are variable frequency drives. That frequency however is based on the speed of the motor- your AC wave needs to be twice as fast if the motor is spinning twice as fast. This has nothing to do with current and torque, only commutation. Once you learn that, then you can learn about how you have to purposefully create small phase lags in order to induce current due to back EMF, and how it's this precise control of phase lag that causes torque, not "frequency."

None of this is "not something most people are aware of." This is about the most basic thing you can know about a Tesla and their motors, and is known by everyone that has any knowledge of any EV that has an AC motor (which is all of them). It's not 1999 anymore.

 

[eivissa]

The issue here is that you're the one that actually posted this on Twitter:

" 430Nm of torque! (up from 3D3=240Nm)"

• Is this reporting what Tesla claims to be max torque for the 3D3 and 4D3B? Yes, absolutely!
  
  

When it appears that you are well aware this motor doesn't actually outperform the 3D3 in torque because of how Tesla "Certifies" motors. Seems very much like you're being sensational for clicks with all your superlatives (even though you claim to just be reporting the "facts")

• Do I think these claimed torque values are reasonable and actually achievable? Yes, absolutely!

This is a M3P 2021 with 3D3/3D1 with claimed torque figures 240Nm front and 420Nm rear:

According to CANBUS Data, the car is overperforming.

So, yes, I stand by this statement, whichever way you look at it.

 

[Nabush]

No they don't.

You are mis-interpreting PWM'ing the DC link to create the AC phase currents needed to commutate and control a motor. But the primary control is duty cycle, not frequency, and the point of this is to control the CURRENT in an inductor (the motor windings) not the "Frequency." You'll note that it's Pulse WIDTH Modulation. Not Frequency modulation. Every motor inverter does this. It's how they all work, and isn't special to Tesla. And yes, there is a frequency associated with PWM, and yes it changes because there are good efficiency reasons to manipulate this. But the motor doesn't change torque because of this. Torque in a motor is phase current, period. And there is no getting away from physics, where power = torque * speed.

But hey, I could be wrong. You learned what you think you know somewhere. Post a link to this fact that "not most people are aware of"

EXACTLY

 

[Sam1]

OMG, The dunning kruger here is so strong.

A blog from 2006 talking about how Tesla uses AC motors instead of DC ones like the GM EV1 from 1996? The AC motors that every single EV has basically used since then once computers and power electronics became affordable and isn't special to Tesla in any way in 2024 (just like the blog says)? The same AC motor drive that you can buy for $10 today for a cheap RC car?

Yes, an AC motor requires a frequency drive to be commutated. Only been known since the 1880's!

Please, please, please look up motor drive inverters and learn more. Yes, they are variable frequency drives. That frequency however is based on the speed of the motor- your AC wave needs to be twice as fast if the motor is spinning twice as fast. This has nothing to do with current and torque, only commutation. Once you learn that, then you can learn about how you have to purposefully create small phase lags in order to induce current due to back EMF, and how it's this precise control of phase lag that causes torque, not "frequency."

None of this is "not something most people are aware of." This is about the most basic thing you can know about a Tesla and their motors, and is known by everyone that has any knowledge of any EV that has an AC motor (which is all of them). It's not 1999 anymore.

Ok, will check back in when the official data is released and we get to watch what you say is impossible to do does happen.

 

[gearchruncher]

we get to watch what you say is impossible to do does happen.

I will buy you a M3P highland if Tesla ever makes a motor that can:

so when the operating frequency is changed, the power can go down and torque up or vice versa, however they want it to.

At the same RPM.

 

[Lolo780]

I will buy you a M3P highland if Tesla ever makes a motor that can:

At the same RPM.

Any bonus if the Roadster hits 60mph in under 1 sec?

 

[Knightshade]

You can learn something too.

https://www.tesla.com/blog/motor-city

Perhaps you can as well- like the fact 2006 isn't early 2000.

Also what Gearcruncher mentions

 

[Watts_Up]

White Model 3 Ludicrous spotted in San Francisco.
The wheels were 19", not 20", which was the case for the M3P in China.
No Front camera can be noticed.

The VIN Number is not common: LRW3E7ET8PCR00287 (2023 Made in Shangai ???)



1-3 Manufacturer

5YJ = Passenger Vehicle - Model 3 - Model S​

7SA = MPV Vehicle - Model Y - Model X​

LRW = ????​

4. Model Type

3 = Tesla Model​

​

5. Body Type

E = Sedan 4 Dr / LHD​

6. Restraint System

7 = ????​

7. Fuel Type

E = Electric​

F = Electric - Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery​

8. Motor/drive unit

T = ????​

10. Model Year

2022 model year: N​

2023 model year: P ????​

2024 model year: R​

11. Manufacturer Plant

A = Austin, Texas​

F = Fremont, California​

N = Reno, Nevada (for Tesla Semi)​

B = Berlin, Germany​

C = Shanghai, China ????​

 

[eivissa]

8. Motor/drive unit
T = ????

T = Dual Motor Performance

The Korean Docs suggest 3D3 front / 4D2 rear, not 5D1 as expected back then.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1704937463767044520

 

[FastLaneJB]

Would be good if they give a choice of 19’s and 20’s. Roads can be pretty shocking in the UK in places so more sidewall is needed to avoid cracking and damaging rims. Needs a better design than that though.

 

[Lets go Plaid]

So is the front motor in this car going to be the 3D3 or the 4D3B?

 

[eivissa]

So is the front motor in this car going to be the 3D3 or the 4D3B?

4D3B is wishful thinking I guess. The plain numbers from Korea suggest 3D3A, because only that motor matches peak power and rpm at peak power exactly.

I am expecting more data for motor updates on the MYP. Reading into those docs will probably confirm it.

 

[Nabush]

White Model 3 Ludicrous spotted in San Francisco.
The wheels were 19", not 20", which was the case for the M3P in China.
No Front camera can be noticed.

The VIN Number is not common: LRW3E7ET8PCR00287 (2023 Made in Shangai ???)

View attachment 1028818

1-3 Manufacturer

5YJ = Passenger Vehicle - Model 3 - Model S​

7SA = MPV Vehicle - Model Y - Model X​

LRW = ????​

4. Model Type

3 = Tesla Model​

​

5. Body Type

E = Sedan 4 Dr / LHD​

6. Restraint System

7 = ????​

7. Fuel Type

E = Electric​

F = Electric - Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery​

8. Motor/drive unit

T = ????​

10. Model Year

2022 model year: N​

2023 model year: P ????​

2024 model year: R​

11. Manufacturer Plant

A = Austin, Texas​

F = Fremont, California​

N = Reno, Nevada (for Tesla Semi)​

B = Berlin, Germany​

C = Shanghai, China ????​

View attachment 1028814 View attachment 1028816 View attachment 1028812 View attachment 1028815 View attachment 1028813 View attachment 1028817

Once again, same brakes as previous M3P, which is not a good news... OEM brakes are cooked even before the battery overheats on the track... Hopefully this is just a drivetrain test car and brakes will be upgraded...
Funny how everyone here is stuck on the motor specs and not things that actually matter on a sport car ie brakes, cooling and suspension...

 

[Lets go Plaid]

It’s a bit hard to compare? Bigger you think?

 

[Adam3]

It’s a bit hard to compare? Bigger you think?

Calipers and rotor size looks like same as before to me.

 

[Lolo780]

Once again, same brakes as previous M3P, which is not a good news... OEM brakes are cooked even before the battery overheats on the track... Hopefully this is just a drivetrain test car and brakes will be upgraded...
Funny how everyone here is stuck on the motor specs and not things that actually matter on a sport car ie brakes, cooling and suspension...

Brakes and suspension are the easiest to change, and no serious track day enthusiast is running stock parts anyways.

 

[Nabush]

Brakes and suspension are the easiest to change, and no serious track day enthusiast is running stock parts anyways.

Lot of cars come with decent brakes and suspension stock. Camaro SS 1LE has excellent suspension and brakes, E-diff, cooling from factory for example and is/was a cheap car.
Cooling is not easy to add for M3P and is critical...

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Once again, same brakes as previous M3P, which is not a good news... OEM brakes are cooked even before the battery overheats on the track... Hopefully this is just a drivetrain test car and brakes will be upgraded...
Funny how everyone here is stuck on the motor specs and not things that actually matter on a sport car ie brakes, cooling and suspension...

Not everyone does road course racing or Autocross. The current brakes are fine for drag racing.

 

[Nabush]

Not everyone does road course racing or Autocross. The current brakes are fine for drag racing.

Drag racing is an American thing. You forget 90% of the rest of the world. Typical American...