Model 3 Mule Sightings

[Foxhound199]

Model 3 could have been a better car than it seems to be turning out as.

I think it's a little much to project your personal preference on every car buyer in the world. I've owned both types of cars, and while I kind of liked the hatch (We called them fastbacks on my Toyota Supra, but I don't see that term much here), it definitely had its downside, such as having to fumble with a cover if you wanted to hide purchases or keep stuff out of direct sunlight. Sedan trunks are perfectly fine in my book.

 

[Piney999]

We need more mules!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

That's a bit premature since it's not even on the road yet.

Everything is, obviously, subject to changes if the product changes. I base this on what we (think we) know.

Yes, Model S is an alternative.

Well, not really an alternative to the average Model 3 buyer. Even myself I am not interested in a second large car in addition to the Model X (and previous Model S). Model 3 being a sedan makes me apprehensive, I am currently thinking of the I-Pace instead. It's not just the price either, but also the size... Model Y is interesting, but it is further away it seems.

Buy 400K pre-sales for the TM3 shows interest in this type of vehicle.

Of course. There is plenty of interest in a well implemented, large-battery BEV at a lucrative price-point. Model 3 will do just fine even with its shortcomings, because there is a market to be saturated. That said, I think it could have covered even a wider range of customers with a hatchback design similar to Model S.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I think it's a little much to project your personal preference on every car buyer in the world. I've owned both types of cars, and while I kind of liked the hatch (We called them fastbacks on my Toyota Supra, but I don't see that term much here), it definitely had its downside, such as having to fumble with a cover if you wanted to hide purchases or keep stuff out of direct sunlight. Sedan trunks are perfectly fine in my book.

That is not my intent. As I said, I think Model 3 will sell well, especially lacking competition. And yes, the notion that Model 3 could have been a better car that it seems to be turning out, is my personal preference and opinion only.

That said, I do think there is some broader market research/sentiment that is relevant beyond these subjective comments. Hatchbacks and station wagons are immensely popular especially in many parts of Europe and sedans are not that well liked. A lot of European posters on TMC have noted how few sedans they can actually spot on the roads. I guess it is not quite as bad as station wagons and the U.S., but sedans are kind of rare in Europe still. That will be some headwind for Model 3 here, no doubt. Not disasterous, but headwind still.

Making a car that can be sold as a sort of sedan in the U.S. and a sort of hatchback/station wagon in Europe makes a lot of sense IMO, if variants can not be offered (as most manufacturers do, but Tesla really can't). Model S is such an example that makes a lot of sense IMO, given the differences in the markets.

As for trunk covers, only Tesla seems to have a problem with having them in the premium class. All premium vehicles I've owned prior to Tesla that were hatchbacks or stations wagons or SUVs had adaptive and/or automatically rising trunk covers (that were removable) hiding the stuff. Of course Model S one that is a bit crap and Model X has none these days, so there is that. But on average I don't see that as any kind of issue in modern hatchbacks...

 

[jdevo2004]

We need more mules!

Here you go!

 

[stopcrazypp]

The comparison is not how well sedans sell, but how well a hatchback could have sold in comparison to only sedan. Both Toyota and Hyundai offer hatchback and station wagon versions of Corolla and Elantra in addition to the sedan. Tesla is not expected to have an alternative to the sedan on market (within the price-range) in several years.

Had Model 3 been a sporty hatchback like Model S, it could have covered a wider swath of the market in one single model of the car - it would have been sedanish enough for markets that dislike hatchbacks/station wagons, while offering the practicality of a hatchback for those markets that do expect that.

I'm not sure I would call it a mistake necessarily. I do call it unfortunate. Model 3 could have been a better car than it seems to be turning out as.

A sporty hatchback like Model S is the perfect compromise between a sedan and a station wagon, if only one of the three alternatives can be offered. Model S nailed it perfectly.

I'm not convinced it would have been for the better if they made a compromise and went with a hatch design. Usually compromise designs do not give you the best options either way (it's not a good sedan because of poor rear headroom, and it's not the best hatchback either because of the sedan shape). That's why the high volume brands have two distinct variants rather than trying to come up with a compromise design.

And for the hatchback variant, I think the narrative is that CUVs will erode on the need to make a hatchback variant. They can make a sedan and CUV variant and that will pretty much cover all bases. And the CUV variant would definitely have better cargo capability than any sedan-like hatchback variant.

 

[Model 3]

I'm not convinced it would have been for the better if they made a compromise and went with a hatch design.

What consist a compromise or not depend on your point of view... From my point of view they needed more headroom in the rear seats, and to get that they compromised and removed the lift-back and made it a pure sedan

 

[ex-bimmer]

Wow. Production must be really ramping up.
First time we've seen three at once.
And is that a model Y we see in the background?

 

[BluestarE3]

Wow. Production must be really ramping up.
First time we've seen three at once.

Nah, those are the three alpha prototypes. Note how long in the tooth they are.

 

[NeverFollow]

At 11:59 PM PST...

At least after 2 pm PCT (or 5 pm Eastern Time) after the Stock Market close.

 

[NeverFollow]

And is that a model Y we see in the background?

Which picture?

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

That is not my intent. As I said, I think Model 3 will sell well, especially lacking competition. And yes, the notion that Model 3 could have been a better car that it seems to be turning out, is my personal preference and opinion only.

That said, I do think there is some broader market research/sentiment that is relevant beyond these subjective comments. Hatchbacks and station wagons are immensely popular especially in many parts of Europe and sedans are not that well liked. A lot of European posters on TMC have noted how few sedans they can actually spot on the roads. I guess it is not quite as bad as station wagons and the U.S., but sedans are kind of rare in Europe still. That will be some headwind for Model 3 here, no doubt. Not disasterous, but headwind still.

Making a car that can be sold as a sort of sedan in the U.S. and a sort of hatchback/station wagon in Europe makes a lot of sense IMO, if variants can not be offered (as most manufacturers do, but Tesla really can't). Model S is such an example that makes a lot of sense IMO, given the differences in the markets.

As for trunk covers, only Tesla seems to have a problem with having them in the premium class. All premium vehicles I've owned prior to Tesla that were hatchbacks or stations wagons or SUVs had adaptive and/or automatically rising trunk covers (that were removable) hiding the stuff. Of course Model S one that is a bit crap and Model X has none these days, so there is that. But on average I don't see that as any kind of issue in modern hatchbacks...

Probably good to look at the Asian market too, which I believe is more sedan-heavy. Its also much, much larger than the European market. They also seem to actually care about climate change and are passing some great laws to encourage EV adoption. Not a terrible idea to cater to them a bit too!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Probably good to look at the Asian market too, which I believe is more sedan-heavy. Its also much, much larger than the European market. They also seem to actually care about climate change and are passing some great laws to encourage EV adoption. Not a terrible idea to cater to them a bit too!

Well, I guess my point is that a hatchback would have catered to them as well as a sedan. For China, Tesla really would need a stretch like Audi's A4L to be optimal, though. That's a bit of a special market.

Still, as I said, even the sedan will do fine. There is demand and nobody else is answering it properly. Just too bad it is not the small Model S in the trunk department.

 

[N5329K]

We need more mules!

Here's one but I'm pretty sure its a GM.
Robin

 

[MP3Mike]

Well, I guess my point is that a hatchback would have catered to them as well as a sedan.

No it wouldn't. If that was the case sedans wouldn't exist. I don't want a hatchback, I want a traditional sedan. (And lucky for me that is what a Model 3 is.)

A Model Y will probably be a hatchback, and therefore it won't be for me. But you are welcome to like, and buy, one. (Once they are available.)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

No it wouldn't. If that was the case sedans wouldn't exist. I don't want a hatchback, I want a traditional sedan. (And lucky for me that is what a Model 3 is.)

A Model Y will probably be a hatchback, and therefore it won't be for me. But you are welcome to like, and buy, one. (Once they are available.)

While I'm sure a portion of the market exists that refuses to buy hatchbacks of any sort, I would wager a lot of the sedan-buying audience is willing to buy a hatchback that looks like a sedan.

If a company can offer the variety, do so by all means to appease everyone, but sedan as the only compromise is unfortunate. IMO hatchback is the perfect compromise between sedan and station wagon. Model S nailed it.

I appreciate that you disagree, no problem with that.

Model Y looks to be a CUV/SUV and certainly if it were available alongside Model 3, I would consider it. The current timing suggests Jaguar I-Pace will be out before Model Y and continues to be the greatest threat to my Model 3 reservation. Trunk is a big part, I expect.

 

[22522]

Starting to feel like mules are being disrespected...

 

[TEG]

SLUMPING SEDAN SALES SIGNALING THE DEATH OF AN AMERICAN STAPLE
Is the family sedan an endangered species?

Yep, it wouldn't surprise me if that is a DIRECT result of all the people who put down deposits and are waiting for Model 3.
400K+ reservations could put a notable dent in recent sales.
Just like what Model S did to the Luxury sedan market...
Tesla Model S Crushes Luxury Sedan Competition In Q3 US Sales

( apologies for being off topic... although I think all the mule-is-an-animal talk is already showing this thread is a vacuum without new car sightings... )

 

[alseTrick]

Is the family sedan an endangered species?

Probably because this is happening. Will I buy a 3 yes, but it will be the first sedan I've owned in a long long time.

SLUMPING SEDAN SALES SIGNALING THE DEATH OF AN AMERICAN STAPLE
Is the family sedan an endangered species?

Lol.

Sedans aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[Laban]

That said, I do think there is some broader market research/sentiment that is relevant beyond these subjective comments. Hatchbacks and station wagons are immensely popular especially in many parts of Europe and sedans are not that well liked. A lot of European posters on TMC have noted how few sedans they can actually spot on the roads. I guess it is not quite as bad as station wagons and the U.S., but sedans are kind of rare in Europe still. That will be some headwind for Model 3 here, no doubt. Not disasterous, but headwind still.
.

But does this matter if they can sell all the Model 3s that they can produce until the Y is released ? Disregarding your personal preferences here and looking at the broader market sentiment. Maybe i should add my personal preferences here as well, i want a I-Pace "station wagon" crossover and would never have bought a sedan if it wasn't a Tesla.