Model 3 on the Nurburgring vs. Taycan

[FlyNavy01]

Both cars 100% stock according to the video description. Sebastian estimates a ~7:45 lap time in stock form.

Upgrade the brakes, suspension and tires (like many of us have) and I think the Model 3 would put down low 7:00's easy.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

It's not Seb Vettel, it's Seb Vittel

 

[FlyNavy01]

It's not Seb Vettel, it's Seb Vittel

Ah, good catch! Still a good watch.

Sadly for some reason TMC doesn't allow thread titles to be edited.

 

[XLR82XS]

I drove a Taycan Turbo this past weekend. Incredible vehicle and Porsche did an amazing job as always.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

Ah, good catch! Still a good watch.

Sadly for some reason TMC doesn't allow thread titles to be edited.

Vittel is a handy driver also, so I would value his opinion more than most.
Vettel would probably have been slower based on his current form

 

[wenkan]

Both cars 100% stock according to the video description. Sebastian estimates a ~7:45 lap time in stock form.

Upgrade the brakes, suspension and tires (like many of us have) and I think the Model 3 would put down low 7:00's easy.

I think what he meant was 7:45 BTG without traffic/yellows. 7:45 whole lap seems too good to be true.

Interestingly he mentioned the driver of the taycan 4s (not turbo or turbo s, but still twice model 3 price with reasonable options) is a VLN racing driver. So I must understand that as “taycan is too heavy and extremely hard to driver even for pro drivers”.

 

[wenkan]

Vittel is a handy driver also, so I would value his opinion more than most.
Vettel would probably have been slower based on his current form

If I was Vettel I would rather drive EVs on the Ring than finish that Ferrari tractor 14th in Monza.

 

[MountainPass]

He tagged us on his Instagram post and for a moment my heart fluttered

 

[MountainPass]

Ah, good catch! Still a good watch.

Sadly for some reason TMC doesn't allow thread titles to be edited.

You can report the thread to moderators and request the title be changed

 

[Mash]

I hope nothing will stop me to bring my car in a dry day to the Ring this month. 275 CUP2 tires already installed for that. Plan to spend a day with Misha Charoudin tuning suspension and collecting data to see how to make it survive full hot lap at full power, brakes and tires. Unfortunately tires and brakes temp sensors, suspension travel sensors, seats and aero package won't be on-time. But at least it's not stock otherwise.

 

[Apprunner]

I hope nothing will stop me to bring my car in a dry day to the Ring this month. 275 CUP2 tires already installed for that. Plan to spend a day with Misha Charoudin tuning suspension and collecting data to see how to make it survive full hot lap at full power, brakes and tires. Unfortunately tires and brakes temp sensors, suspension travel sensors, seats and aero package won't be on-time. But at least it's not stock otherwise.

From what i've seen on other videos, the brakes will be the first thing that overheats. I'm jealous...looks like a ton of fun

 

[Mash]

From what i've seen on other videos, the brakes will be the first thing that overheats. I'm jealous...looks like a ton of fun

It's only a matter of finding the right pressure and heat them up quick enough. Top grip of CUP2 is at 35 psi and 180F which should be doable and that would be proper tire load on 275.

I intend to decrease regen to try to save battery temps. I also want to precool everything by sitting in track mode with compressor overdrive and no AC until it will stop pumping it at all.

So then it will be a question of pads and brake fluid boiling. Unfortunately I don't know what is operating range for RB pads, but I'm sure it's not xp20 of ds3.11 range. I have largest rotors 390mm and 6 piston calipers. I will, though put fiberglass tube on abs sensor and remove dust shields. The Ring is very fast, so with some luck it should cool down everything.

Weight wise I will keep interior except rear seats and frunk. In the comments of that video driver said that they spent a week with Tesla there and found that 30-70 power bias is the fastest.

Anyway, let's see.

 

[MovedOn121]

You can report the thread to moderators and request the title be changed

Ship my stuff soon and I'll see if he wants to take mine around

 

[MasterC17]

It's only a matter of finding the right pressure and heat them up quick enough. Top grip of CUP2 is at 35 psi and 180F which should be doable and that would be proper tire load on 275.

I intend to decrease regen to try to save battery temps. I also want to precool everything by sitting in track mode with compressor overdrive and no AC until it will stop pumping it at all.

So then it will be a question of pads and brake fluid boiling. Unfortunately I don't know what is operating range for RB pads, but I'm sure it's not xp20 of ds3.11 range. I have largest rotors 390mm and 6 piston calipers. I will, though put fiberglass tube on abs sensor and remove dust shields. The Ring is very fast, so with some luck it should cool down everything.

Weight wise I will keep interior except rear seats and frunk. In the comments of that video driver said that they spent a week with Tesla there and found that 30-70 power bias is the fastest.

Anyway, let's see.

Hmm, 30% front, 70% rear bias was fastest? Interesting, I suppose that could help with rotation.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

A follow up:

On the 4 points he raises -
1. I've had no problems with wheel nuts loosening. Anyone else?
2. I'd agree on the pressures based on short circuit testing I've done with the PS4S tyre.
3. He's done well with the standard pads/brakes but that shows what a good driver can do when they are familiar with the circuit and confident about carrying speed through the corners.
4. I agree with -10 for SC and that's what I use. Even on -10 there is still TC/SC kicking in sometimes. Personally, with a BBK I want to use <80% on regen as I want to reduce lift-off oversteer and allow the car to run more freely where I'm on a small amount of throttle.

 

[Mash]

1. He just reminds not to use standard nut torque.
2. It very much depends on your tire size and compound. Normally you want to be 35 psi hot. He is right to suggest higher since stock camber is very low. Also, that's what you actually need since tires are too narrow for the load.
3. Few long straights on the ring work as a cooling laps, but, yes - if you know the track well, you can carry speed from the corner. If your main experience with the track is watching Ring Crash YouTube channel, then you won't do that good.
4. I plan to try zero regen - in the beginning you anyway have no regen since battery is full. Before you run out of juice you have like 5/20 minutes of regen charge at 75kW - it's just 8% of lost charge at best while it's ~1.5kW of average heat input into the cooling system. Certainly that's not a good idea for stock brakes. And I also don't like that it breaks when I don't want to.

Other than that, great video, now I know where is this unchartered supercharger. It's smart they didn't put it on a map, otherwise people would use it who are not coming to race.

 

[kbecks13]

Vettel would probably have been slower based on his current form

Don't you dare say these things about Seb, he is a TREASURE lol i blame ferrari, they are totally sabotaging his chassis.

 

[mattack4000]

Sigh, I pay $7 to cross the Dumbarton Bridge and have to pass people sleeping on the left lane.

 

[lbowroom]

Who is Arton?

 

[wenkan]

1. He just reminds not to use standard nut torque.
2. It very much depends on your tire size and compound. Normally you want to be 35 psi hot. He is right to suggest higher since stock camber is very low. Also, that's what you actually need since tires are too narrow for the load.
3. Few long straights on the ring work as a cooling laps, but, yes - if you know the track well, you can carry speed from the corner. If your main experience with the track is watching Ring Crash YouTube channel, then you won't do that good.
4. I plan to try zero regen - in the beginning you anyway have no regen since battery is full. Before you run out of juice you have like 5/20 minutes of regen charge at 75kW - it's just 8% of lost charge at best while it's ~1.5kW of average heat input into the cooling system. Certainly that's not a good idea for stock brakes. And I also don't like that it breaks when I don't want to.

Other than that, great video, now I know where is this unchartered supercharger. It's smart they didn't put it on a map, otherwise people would use it who are not coming to race.

Standard nut torque according to Tsportline wheels guide is already 129 lbft, which is 175Nm. Vittel mentioned 170Nm is actually lower.