Model 3 Only 1 Screen Officially

[ikjadoon]

Do you think this never occurred to Tesla? You think they will sell a car that their entire company depends on with a HUD that is hard to see in glare? Seriously? You are actually concerned they might just have forgotten to think about the driving-into-the-sun scenario? lols

You should read my signature.

Tesla also didn't think much about rebooting/frozen clusters ("Do you think this never occurred to Tesla?"), Tesla also didn't think much about attaching a lock to the frunk storage compartment ("Do you think this never occurred to Tesla?"), Tesla also didn't think about idiots who tried AP without holding the steering wheel ("You think they will sell a car..."), etc. The list is endless.

I think this has been mentioned ad nauseum: few reservation holders will cancel. Maybe some of the potential buyers, who don't know much about Tesla, could be dissuaded.

 

[ummgood]

Shhhh, don't let @McRat hear you....

Seriously though, I want a Model 3, but was willing to entertain a Bolt. My sadness for it was mainly stemming from lack of L2 autonomy features, and the apparent refusal to include a EVSE that can use different adapters to charge at different rates (but that isn't just them).

Yeah I really want the autonomous features too. That is what actually might get me to pull the trigger even though the interior might not be up to what my expectations are.

Too easy of a target. Somebody who thinks a Tacoma is sex on wheels, and has the high aspiration of someday owning a German taxicab as a fashion statement is simply leading with their chin. Besides folk buy Ford trucks, and Camry cars, when they aren't shopping for SUVs, not Bimmer and Audi sedans.

I don't think my Tacoma is sex on wheels. That was purchased in a different part of my life. It has served me well and I am ready for something more exciting and more expensive. At the same time I really have to weigh all my options. For example is not having a 2nd screen and direct vents worth an electric drivetrain to me? I know for now the electric drivetrain isn't worth it to be in something like a Leaf, Bolt, etc...

German Taxicabs are E-Class Mercedes. I have spent many hours in them in Munich, Berlin, and Frankfurt (even though more recently they are driving Prius). I have even rented them before for drive tests for my work. I want something more enthusiastic than that. Honestly there are lots of options but if I didn't get the Tesla I might be looking at a used Porsche Macan, Audi S4 (new or used depending), or maybe a 335i sport. One other car that recently got my attention is the Jag XE-R. I don't really know what I'll end up with. I sure hope it is the Tesla because I love the looks and appearance. Just waiting to see what the end product and pricing is like.

 

[eisbock]

There have been tons of threads on this after the first reveal event. It's legal. It will be fine. It's being done with Autonomous driving in mind.

I can't be assed to read through 16 pages to see if my concern has been voiced, but here it is:

How will autopilot work with one screen? I don't see how you can have an instrument cluster, "buttons", navigation, and autopilot readout all jammed onto one tiny screen. Seems like there's just not enough room to display everything on a regular car, nevermind one with advanced self-driving software that adds an extra element to display (I guess they could just not display autopilot information, but that seems backwards).

I understand a HUD is the logical answer to that question, but man I just don't see how that's any cheaper than another screen. Plus, HUDs aren't exactly reliable in all environments.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

I can't be assed to read through 16 pages to see if my concern has been voiced, but here it is:

How will autopilot work with one screen? I don't see how you can have an instrument cluster, "buttons", navigation, and autopilot readout all jammed onto one tiny screen. Seems like there's just not enough room to display everything on a regular car, nevermind one with advanced self-driving software that adds an extra element to display (I guess they could just not display autopilot information, but that seems backwards).

I understand a HUD is the logical answer to that question, but man I just don't see how that's any cheaper than another screen. Plus, HUDs aren't exactly reliable in all environments.

One thing to keep in mind:

These regulations aren't new enough to address autonomous driving information displays, etc.... So it's likely something has to give in that department.


But in level 1.... Aka just you driving with no assistance, the single screen is entirely within regulations.

 

[Sonny Daze]

How will autopilot work with one screen?

Well, one answer was that there will be no EAP, only FSD, which would eliminate the need for the driver to continuously monitor. Other than that, no new ideas arose (that I recall).

 

[stopcrazypp]

I can't be assed to read through 16 pages to see if my concern has been voiced, but here it is:

How will autopilot work with one screen? I don't see how you can have an instrument cluster, "buttons", navigation, and autopilot readout all jammed onto one tiny screen. Seems like there's just not enough room to display everything on a regular car, nevermind one with advanced self-driving software that adds an extra element to display (I guess they could just not display autopilot information, but that seems backwards).

I understand a HUD is the logical answer to that question, but man I just don't see how that's any cheaper than another screen. Plus, HUDs aren't exactly reliable in all environments.

Well the prototype cars already have the instrument cluster and buttons, nav, entertainment integrated on the same screen. It just didn't show how the autopilot display would be integrated.

Keep in mind that even though the screen is smaller than for the Model S, it's still a 15 inch screen, which is large by automotive standards. I believe a typical entry level premium navigation/infotainment screen size is now 8 inches (wide screen type, so surface area is actually smaller), so there is roughly 4x the surface area Tesla can work with. The extra space would be used to replace the cluster, buttons, entertainment, etc.

The UI would have to be designed to minimize clutter and provide visual separation, but it's not impossible to make everything fit.

 

[ikjadoon]

Well, one answer was that there will be no EAP, only FSD, which would eliminate the need for the driver to continuously monitor. Other than that, no new ideas arose (that I recall).

Tesla used the word "Autopilot" more than a few times at the reveal and after the reveal (this is when they were still using MobileEye). Not sure why EAP (i.e., Autopilot which Tesla has repeatedly explained is very different from FSD) has been nixed. Have I missed something? Why is it now FSD and not (E)AP?

----

FSD's progress, judged by Autopilot in the latest firmware update this week, is way behind Elon's tweet (at least 10x later than Elon predicted). We'll see if the pace accelerates, but I don't see how this autonomous LA to NYC drive is happening this year, either.

---

In that vein...I think people who use anything short of perfectly functioning FSD will want some sort of visual indicators. Maybe they'll get creative with those 15 inches, but it does a tad cramped.

 

[Sonny Daze]

I wonder what he meant when he said (paraphrased) it'll be pretty close to what we saw, but in some ways a lot better?

I too was a bit confused by this comment, especially in relation to the one he made after the reveal. I know these are not thought out and well planned statements, but he seems to pull back from the "spaceship" controls until he adds "it will be a lot better" at the end (which could mean lots of things).

"Wait until you see the real steering controls and system for the 3. It feels like a spaceship." (tweet from 3 April 16)

"It’s going to be pretty close to what I showed at the Model 3 unveiling, but with more polish and refinement and a few more details that are added. So it’ll be better than what was unveiled and I guess in some ways it will be a lot better." (earnings call from 22 Feb 17)

For what it's worth, here is the interior and controls of the SpaceX Dragon 2 that will be taking 2 tourists around the moon:

 

[Sonny Daze]

Tesla used the word "Autopilot" more than a few times at the reveal and after the reveal (this is when they were still using MobileEye). Not sure why EAP (i.e., Autopilot which Tesla has repeatedly explained is very different from FSD) has been nixed. Have I missed something? Why is it now FSD and not (E)AP?

EAP

FSD

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Tesla used the word "Autopilot" more than a few times at the reveal and after the reveal (this is when they were still using MobileEye). Not sure why EAP (i.e., Autopilot which Tesla has repeatedly explained is very different from FSD) has been nixed. Have I missed something? Why is it now FSD and not (E)AP?

----

FSD's progress, judged by Autopilot in the latest firmware update this week, is way behind Elon's tweet (at least 10x later than Elon predicted). We'll see if the pace accelerates, but I don't see how this autonomous LA to NYC drive is happening this year, either.

---

In that vein...I think people who use anything short of perfectly functioning FSD will want some sort of visual indicators. Maybe they'll get creative with those 15 inches, but it does a tad cramped.

I think they're just keying on the linguistic connotations of Full Self-Driving, as opposed to Enhanced AutoPilot.

FSD conjures up a higher level of capability, at least in my mind.

 

[JeffK]

Tesla used the word "Autopilot" more than a few times at the reveal and after the reveal (this is when they were still using MobileEye). Not sure why EAP (i.e., Autopilot which Tesla has repeatedly explained is very different from FSD) has been nixed. Have I missed something? Why is it now FSD and not (E)AP?

We were just suggesting earlier that EAP might not be a thing in the future to avoid confusion among consumers. Although that might made a few Model S/X owners angry in the short term.

FSD's progress, judged by Autopilot in the latest firmware update this week, is way behind Elon's tweet (at least 10x later than Elon predicted). We'll see if the pace accelerates, but I don't see how this autonomous LA to NYC drive is happening this year, either.

No, although it is later than expected, ten times later than 2-3 months is 20 - 30 months. So if EAP does not have parity with AP 1.0 by the end of 2018 then you can repeat yourself.

As far as the tweet you cited goes, the rollout of many of the autopilot features did start to the first 1000 cars on Dec 31st. If you look at the 22nd on the calendar then the "end of next week" is Dec 31st. The morning of Jan 1st many users reported the firmware update. It wasn't full parity, and was quite limited... but it was released.

 

[Wolverinegeoff]

I too was a bit confused by this comment, especially in relation to the one he made after the reveal. I know these are not thought out and well planned statements, but he seems to pull back from the "spaceship" controls until he adds "it will be a lot better" at the end (which could mean lots of things).

"Wait until you see the real steering controls and system for the 3. It feels like a spaceship." (tweet from 3 April 16)

"It’s going to be pretty close to what I showed at the Model 3 unveiling, but with more polish and refinement and a few more details that are added. So it’ll be better than what was unveiled and I guess in some ways it will be a lot better." (earnings call from 22 Feb 17)

For what it's worth, here is the interior and controls of the SpaceX Dragon 2 that will be taking 2 tourists around the moon:

"Did I say one screen? I meant one screen.....plus four more that swing down instead of mirrors! And it can dock with the Dragon capsule and be shot to the moon! Shazam!"

 

[Garlan Garner]

He owns his own trucking company

Maybe partially at fault in real life, but legally 100% at fault according to the FHP report.

I agree with any report where the owner of the car is at fault.

A man was in his bedroom sleep. He owned a car in the drive way. The kids let the dog out. The dog somehow jumped into the car in the driveway and got the car into neutral and the car rolled down the driveway out into the street and hit another car.

The man who was sleep in his bedroom was found liable in the courts. Verdict. The courts said - The person insuring the car is the one liable/responsible for the car.

 

[eisbock]

Well, one answer was that there will be no EAP, only FSD, which would eliminate the need for the driver to continuously monitor. Other than that, no new ideas arose (that I recall).

To be frank, this is ridiculous. You can't launch a car outfitted for autonomous driving when the technology for that does not exist yet. Sure, we're getting close, but we're so far and away from it being reliable enough that you can just eliminate informational displays.

Model 3 will have the same autopilot functionalities as S/X when it is launched. I guarantee it.

 

[eisbock]

One thing to keep in mind:

These regulations aren't new enough to address autonomous driving information displays, etc.... So it's likely something has to give in that department.


But in level 1.... Aka just you driving with no assistance, the single screen is entirely within regulations.

Yeah, I understand that one display is legal and will work, but the autopilot display is a crucial part of what makes Tesla Tesla. I can't see them getting rid of that for the sake of minimalism and simplicity. Seems a little dangerous actually if you can't continually monitor what the black magic that's driving your car is doing. Tesla touts safety.

 

[ecarfan]

Yeah, I understand that one display is legal and will work, but the autopilot display is a crucial part of what makes Tesla Tesla. I can't see them getting rid of that for the sake of minimalism and simplicity. Seems a little dangerous actually if you can't continually monitor what the black magic that's driving your car is doing. Tesla touts safety.

Having a single display does not mean "you can't continually monitor" AP. Of course you can. All you do is move your visual focus a few degrees to the right instead of a few degrees down. It will likely just take an hour or two of driving the 3 to adjust to the change, just like it took a bit of time to adjust to the feel of regenerative braking when first driving an EV.

 

[eisbock]

Having a single display does not mean "you can't continually monitor" AP. Of course you can. All you do is move your visual focus a few degrees to the right instead of a few degrees down. It will likely just take an hour or two of driving the 3 to adjust to the change, just like it took a bit of time to adjust to the feel of regenerative braking when first driving an EV.

I'm more referencing the tight fit on the screen. One of the awesome things about a Tesla is the huge display (which is smaller on the 3), but now you're basically splitting it up into a bunch of tiny, regular-sized ICE displays that happen to be all crammed together in the same spot. Doesn't seem as revolutionary as Model S was. In fact, it seems a bit primitive.

 

[ModelNforNerd]

Yeah, I understand that one display is legal and will work, but the autopilot display is a crucial part of what makes Tesla Tesla. I can't see them getting rid of that for the sake of minimalism and simplicity. Seems a little dangerous actually if you can't continually monitor what the black magic that's driving your car is doing. Tesla touts safety.

well, that's just the thing.......

who's to say the information displayed on the single screen doesn't change depending on what driving mode the car is in?

I would imagine when you're in EAP or FSD, the info displayed will be different than if you're in complete control.

 

[Model 3]

All you do is move your visual focus a few degrees to the right instead of a few degrees down.

Correction: Replace "instead of" with "in addition to".

 

[eisbock]

well, that's just the thing.......

who's to say the information displayed on the single screen doesn't change depending on what driving mode the car is in?

I would imagine when you're in EAP or FSD, the info displayed will be different than if you're in complete control.

But wouldn't you want nav on all the time, especially in EAP? I can see FSD needing fewer displays, but EAP is what's shipping with the car and that's going to require the most (read: all) displays. We're still a long ways off from FSD to the point where we can turn off our informational displays. And even in such a case, I would still always want nav on to make sure my car isn't taking me to a shipping container where I'd spend the next couple weeks out at sea.