Model 3 or wait for Model Y and other questions

[daniel]

Totally a load of bull, I am self made and have done by leveraging good debt in/out at the right times….

There is no such thing as a self-made person. We all benefit or suffer from the circumstances we find ourselves in. We benefit or suffer from the opportunities that society give us or denies to us. We benefit from the wealth built up over generations, which is available for a few lucky people to take hold of. Careful use of debt may have been the vehicle you used to accumulate wealth, but that wealth was there because of generations of hard, back-breaking labor, mostly by people who led miserable lives working for little or no pay. Your education was given to you by a society that systematically provides education to some while denying it to others. And if you borrowed from a bank, you were among the fortunate few that banks are willing to lend to.

I don't deny that you worked hard. But you stood on the shoulders of the generations that came before you and took advantage of opportunities that are denied to most others.

 

[EcoCloudIT]

That may be so, but I don't see how it shows anything about "most".

@cafz - this was said:

"daniel said: - And for every person that gets wealthy this way, a thousand go bankrupt. Really successful enterprises are rare. Most start-ups fail. And most wealthy people don't get that way through debt. Most wealthy people inherit it, marry into it, or steal it."

Most do not get weathy through inheritance, that's a total load of BS....I did not marry in to it and so I guess it is suggested I stole it?

Come on....

 

[EcoCloudIT]

There is no such thing as a self-made person. We all benefit or suffer from the circumstances we find ourselves in. We benefit or suffer from the opportunities that society give us or denies to us. We benefit from the wealth built up over generations, which is available for a few lucky people to take hold of. Careful use of debt may have been the vehicle you used to accumulate wealth, but that wealth was there because of generations of hard, back-breaking labor, mostly by people who led miserable lives working for little or no pay. Your education was given to you by a society that systematically provides education to some while denying it to others. And if you borrowed from a bank, you were among the fortunate few that banks are willing to lend to.

I don't deny that you worked hard. But you stood on the shoulders of the generations that came before you and took advantage of opportunities that are denied to most others.

What the heck is your point?

So, I work my ass off too...saved the hell up over years and bought the right time and slowly did this over and over...I have no idea what your dribble is really about...is it that my hard work is not worth as much as my father or my grandpa?

Give me a break would ya....

 

[lonewolf313]

And for every person that gets wealthy this way, a thousand go bankrupt. Really successful enterprises are rare. Most start-ups fail. And most wealthy people don't get that way through debt. Most wealthy people inherit it, marry into it, or steal it.

Hey Daniel, you do realize this is a thread for Australian posts on TMC

The system for negative gearing using debt to buy investment such as shares or property to offset tax requirements may work differently in Hawaii than it does in Australia.

I have used borrowed money quite effectively buying investment property in Sydney and gained considerable property wealth through strong capital growth.

Perhaps property in Hawaii or other states of the USA may not have the same growth factor as in Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane suburbs in Australia.

I have only held a typical middle income Public Servant position all my life (as a sole income earner in my household) and have made a decent amount of wealth using property that I would not have achieved if I only used my savings from my employment as a source of wealth growth.

Going back to topic, I would wait for the Model Y over the Model 3 purely because it is based like a hatchback over a sedan. This allows for greater flexibility when carrying goods.

 

[Max_G]

To spoil the soup and nudge you back on topic: I decided to buy a M3 now and wait with patience for the MY and once available in AU, swap my 3 for a Y.

 

[paulp]

Hey Daniel, you do realize this is a thread for Australian posts on TMC

The system for negative gearing using debt to buy investment such as shares or property to offset tax requirements may work differently in Hawaii than it does in Australia.

I have used borrowed money quite effectively buying investment property in Sydney and gained considerable property wealth through strong capital growth.

Perhaps property in Hawaii or other states of the USA may not have the same growth factor as in Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane suburbs in Australia.

I have only held a typical middle income Public Servant position all my life (as a sole income earner in my household) and have made a decent amount of wealth using property that I would not have achieved if I only used my savings from my employment as a source of wealth growth.

Going back to topic, I would wait for the Model Y over the Model 3 purely because it is based like a hatchback over a sedan. This allows for greater flexibility when carrying goods.

We also have regulation that avoids things like sub prime mortgages and tight controls on bank lending.
I havnt bought a 3 because I need my car to also be a ute, so has to be a hatch. Thats just my lifestyle, I’m sure others dont cart 10 buckets of crushed glass from their pool filter to the local recycler.

 

[daniel]

@cafz - this was said:

"daniel said: - And for every person that gets wealthy this way, a thousand go bankrupt. Really successful enterprises are rare. Most start-ups fail. And most wealthy people don't get that way through debt. Most wealthy people inherit it, marry into it, or steal it."

Most do not get weathy through inheritance, that's a total load of BS....I did not marry in to it and so I guess it is suggested I stole it?

Come on....

That's where the word "most" comes in.

What the heck is your point?

So, I work my ass off too...saved the hell up over years and bought the right time and slowly did this over and over...I have no idea what your dribble is really about...is it that my hard work is not worth as much as my father or my grandpa?

Give me a break would ya....

The vast majority of people who work their asses off get nothing for it. The poorest people work the hardest, most miserable jobs for the least pay and have zero opportunity to build wealth.

Hey Daniel, you do realize this is a thread for Australian posts on TMC

The system for negative gearing using debt to buy investment such as shares or property to offset tax requirements may work differently in Hawaii than it does in Australia.

I have used borrowed money quite effectively buying investment property in Sydney and gained considerable property wealth through strong capital growth.

Perhaps property in Hawaii or other states of the USA may not have the same growth factor as in Sydney or Melbourne or Brisbane suburbs in Australia.

I have only held a typical middle income Public Servant position all my life (as a sole income earner in my household) and have made a decent amount of wealth using property that I would not have achieved if I only used my savings from my employment as a source of wealth growth.

Going back to topic, I would wait for the Model Y over the Model 3 purely because it is based like a hatchback over a sedan. This allows for greater flexibility when carrying goods.

I did not realize this was an Aussie thread. I apologize for that. I saw the thread title under "recent threads" and clicked on it. But the fact remains that throughout the world opportunity is not equally accessible. Most people do not get the opportunity to borrow money to speculate on real estate and become wealthy. Most people are stuck in low-paying dead-end jobs their entire lives, and work harder than any of the rest of us with no hope of advancement.

My point is simply that those of us who are well-off owe our success to being in the right place at the right time and being offered opportunities by a fickle and capricious society.

 

[Vostok]

Well hasn’t this thread gone off on a tangent… !

 

[EcoCloudIT]

That's where the word "most" comes in.



The vast majority of people who work their asses off get nothing for it. The poorest people work the hardest, most miserable jobs for the least pay and have zero opportunity to build wealth.



I did not realize this was an Aussie thread. I apologize for that. I saw the thread title under "recent threads" and clicked on it. But the fact remains that throughout the world opportunity is not equally accessible. Most people do not get the opportunity to borrow money to speculate on real estate and become wealthy. Most people are stuck in low-paying dead-end jobs their entire lives, and work harder than any of the rest of us with no hope of advancement.

My point is simply that those of us who are well-off owe our success to being in the right place at the right time and being offered opportunities by a fickle and capricious society.

Come live in Australia, most if they work hard can afford a house...period.

 

[RareEarth]

Well hasn’t this thread gone off on a tangent… !

A bit like the Model Y in Australia thread. Must be the tension of waiting getting to people!

 

[Shock-On-T]

There is no such thing as a self-made person. We all benefit or suffer from the circumstances we find ourselves in.

That would imply we have no agency at all.
Surely, in addition to the circumstances we find ourselves in, we have some agency to improve our lot, and that improvement is "self-made".

 

[Shock-On-T]

The poorest people work the hardest

I disagree. In my experience the poorest people seem to be the most idle, whereas all the rich people I know have worked their asses off since kindergarten, and continue to do so.

 

[EcoCloudIT]

A bit like the Model Y in Australia thread. Must be the tension of waiting getting to people!

Some people from other countries think they know it all for all situations in all other countries….most in this particular country in question would struggle to point out where Australia is…stupidly really gets up grrrrr I’ll hold my language….

 

[EcoCloudIT]

I disagree. In my experience the poorest people seem to be the most idle, whereas all the rich people I know have worked their asses off since kindergarten, and continue to do so.

Yep, agreed….I worked my butt off, did not come from a wealthy family and had a government education, I am not a boomer so did not get to ride the wave so to speak….however, hard work with a rinse and repeat and go without attitude has served me well (my father taught me to bite off more than I can chew and chew like buggery), I can now afford the luxuries in life though would never waste $’s on stupidities….however give me a spare $1m and I’ll still donate half to charity….

Boy am I worked up…I think I’ll go watch Dune….

 

[meloccom]

Hi everyone, I think we have exhausted the “Rich versus Poor” debate and I won’t be allowing any more posts on that subject in this thread and will be deleting any from here on.
This thread is about the pending arrival of Model Y, which is still pending at time of writing.

 

[Culfy]

For anyone reading this and still interested in the original topic, please get a 3. The last thing the world needs is another SUV. I know people that bought an SUV just so they can see over the SUVs. They are more expensive, slower, less efficient and handle worse. Additionally, you become part of the problem. For me a big part of buying a Tesla is to be part of the solution. Environmentally and from a road user point of view. I've owned sedans all my life and a couple of 4x4s. There is no chance I'd ever buy a compromised car like an SUV, my 4x4s were for off road stuff when I lived in the bush. I used to travel 600km trips regularly, at night and the ability to dodge things was very useful. You just can't do that in an SUV (though EVs are generally better due to their weight distribution). I do like the X Wing doors on the X though. Not enough to buy one, I'd have an S in a heartbeat to replace my wagon, but not an X.
I haven't got the 3 yet, but the boot is more than adequate (if a little oddly shaped) and coming from a Commodore based vehicle, I do like a big boot. As for SUV space, save your money and rent something for the 1 time a year you need more space.
Of course everyone's opinions are different. That's mine.

 

[Chuq]

That just sounds like personal preference.

I had a petrol station wagon previously, and that's my preferred "form factor" - I found it very useful. Tesla don't make a station wagon but the Y is the closest in terms of functionality. I have 3 tween/teen kids and they're not getting any smaller.

I'm also considering doing Uber with it and the Model Y is perfect for airport pickup/drop offs with heaps of luggage. Great form factor as I can keep "my" stuff in the under-boot or frunk and have the entire rear for customers gear.

I don't need an off-road vehicle, there are plenty of "weekend" destinations on sealed roads in my part of the world.

If you're renting cars a few times a year, it's costing you more money and the car you bought is sitting at home? At what point do you stop saving money?

I don't need to accelerate at rapid speeds. 300 km instead of 350 km doesn't phase me. I don't need a low to the ground car. I'm not going to be taking it to track meets. If for some reason the Model Y didn't come in an SR type spec in Australia, the Model 3 would be my only option and I'd certainly be happy with it - but it would be a compromise car from my point of view.

 

[Stratman]

For anyone reading this and still interested in the original topic, please get a 3. The last thing the world needs is another SUV. I know people that bought an SUV just so they can see over the SUVs. They are more expensive, slower, less efficient and handle worse. Additionally, you become part of the problem. For me a big part of buying a Tesla is to be part of the solution. Environmentally and from a road user point of view. I've owned sedans all my life and a couple of 4x4s. There is no chance I'd ever buy a compromised car like an SUV, my 4x4s were for off road stuff when I lived in the bush. I used to travel 600km trips regularly, at night and the ability to dodge things was very useful. You just can't do that in an SUV (though EVs are generally better due to their weight distribution). I do like the X Wing doors on the X though. Not enough to buy one, I'd have an S in a heartbeat to replace my wagon, but not an X.
I haven't got the 3 yet, but the boot is more than adequate (if a little oddly shaped) and coming from a Commodore based vehicle, I do like a big boot. As for SUV space, save your money and rent something for the 1 time a year you need more space.
Of course everyone's opinions are different. That's mine.

Yep, opinions, perceptions, needs are different, I think some people might disagree with much of your opinion in this post, but then I did sell my Model 3 and now drive an electric SUV, which is really what I preferred in the first place.

 

[daniel]

I hate SUVs. They're too big. They pose a danger to others because you can't see over or around them. It seems to me that most pickup truck drivers know how to drive their trucks, but most SUV drivers cannot keep their damn monstrosity in their lane. They learned to drive a small car and drive their SUV as though it were a small car. As for size, I don't think I've ever seen an SUV even half full, except on some trips where an outfitter transported all us clients in one. I keep hearing that people want the space, but I've never seen anybody using that space. My aunt bought one because she wanted a safer car to transport her grandchildren, but we know that SUVs are LESS safe than the better sedans, due to their roll-over potential. I cannot count the number of times I've had to pull out into traffic blind because a goddamned monstrosity of an SUV was parked (illegally!) too close and blocked the view. And in parking lots, forget it: You're nearly guaranteed to have to back out blind because it's ten-to-one you'll have an SUV on each side!

In my opinion SUVs are a menace and should be taxed out of existence. My 1989 Honda Civic wagon had an enormous amount of space. More than once I took four people (including myself) and all our luggage on multi-day trips in that car. I do think a wagon is a better use of space than a sedan. And the Model 3 liftback comes close to that.

 

[Maximillan]

A Model 3 with a hatch back would have been the sweet spot for me.

I've had an SUV before simply due to space requirements, but I don't like the amount of trade-offs they require as a result.