Model 3 Review after Test Drive - "Better than a BMW"

[voip-ninja]

If Tesla can replicate the steering feel and handling of BMW 3 Series cars from the late 90s and early/mid 2000s I will be a happy camper.

That's not possible. The steering feel and handling of your E46/E90 series BMW 3 series were due to the very refined hydraulic steering, which the Tesla (or any modern car for that matter) does not have. There is no electric steering system on any car, at any price, that holds a candle to high performance hydraulic setups.

The primary reason hydraulic is dead is because it was a drain on fuel economy.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

b/c model 3 is not out yet? so the only comparable times are the stats from model S.
so many ppl said model s is fast, but when it comes to fact checks the 70D is even slower than a 228xi and that is just a fact. slower/even on both straight line and much slower on track that is a given.

I find it funny most ppl's argument is, oh EV has instant tq from 0rpm it felt so fast!
but modern turbo cars like BMW's also reaches peak tq just 600-700rpm above idle, the gap is really small.

If we don't have the specs on the Model 3, the replacement isn't a much bigger and heavier vehicle, to compare with the 228ix.

The automotive press doesn't seem to find modern turbos to be comparable to the inherent benefits of BEVs...but you're welcome to your opinion.

 

[Snowdog]

last but not least, for education purposes, a basic 228xi does

2015 BMW 228i xDrive - Instrumented Test
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.0 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.7 sec @ 101 mph

which easily beats or matches a 70D.

Except for the numbers important in the real world that you left out:

BMW 228 xdrive:
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 3.2 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.8 sec

70 D
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.1 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.0 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.1 sec

The 70d is much quicker at everything that matters in the real world. Only a Dragstrip launch gets the BMW close (Either Launch Control, or high RPM brake loading or Clutch dump).

 

[voip-ninja]

The guy in the video piece comes across as an extreme shill and clearly makes his living adoring all things Tesla. Look, I have a Model 3 on order too, but I would actually want to drive it, not just be an idle passenger, before declaring that it's superior to my 340xi which is a beast in terms of driving performance.

 

[rcarpen22]

last but not least, for education purposes, a basic 228xi does

2015 BMW 228i xDrive - Instrumented Test
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.0 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.7 sec @ 101 mph

which easily beats or matches a 70D.

the engine reaches peak at 1450rpm which is just 700rpm above idle.
Power: 240 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 255 lb-ft @ 1450 rpm

Again, I have no agenda. I have always been a fan of German cars and obviously am a fan of Teslas. I own a 70D and a 228ix, both 2015 models. While it may be true that if you wring out a 228ix, it achieves similar numbers to (or perhaps slightly better than) a 70D, in practical terms, it is nowhere near as quick. There is just too much hesitation in the drivetrain, though the 8 speed ZF transmission is quite good for a conventional box. I had a similar discussion once in a Nissan Titan forum. Someone was posting that they blew a V10 VW Touareg off the line in a Titan. I politely responded that I owned a Titan and a V10 Touareg at the time and if that happened, it was because the VW didn't care. Incidentally, the Titan is gone, but I still have the Touareg The bottom line is that we live in a great time. If you want a BMW (or other fine conventional sports sedan), there are many good ones to choose from. If you want an EV, there will soon be great choices in most market segments.

 

[voip-ninja]

Except for the numbers important in the real world that you left out:

BMW 228 xdrive:
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 3.2 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.8 sec

70 D
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.1 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.0 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.1 sec

The 70d is much quicker at everything that matters in the real world. Only a Dragstrip launch gets the BMW close (Either Launch Control, or high RPM brake loading or Clutch dump).

The 70D comes in at about 2X the price of a 228i with the x-drive option, so I would hope that it can match straight line performance. More than likely the 228i would destroy it on a tight roadway.

The model S is a great car, now stop trying to make it the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. Petrol cars still win in many performance metrics and are far less expensive too.

 

[Snowdog]

The 70D comes in at about 2X the price of a 228i with the x-drive option, so I would hope that it can match straight line performance. More than likely the 228i would destroy it on a tight roadway.

The model S is a great car, now stop trying to make it the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. Petrol cars still win in many performance metrics and are far less expensive too.

I didn't make this comparison, I am just correcting the inaccurate statement, that the BMW was as quick as the 70d.

If you have a problem with the comparison, take it up with "BMW ///M3".

 

[tga]

the admin asked me to list

"The admin?" Oh Bulls**t.

Just keep in mind F150 is also aluminum.

The F150's frame is still steel. The only aluminum is the bodywork

-Heat management: some German magazine took a model s to the ring, it craps out under 1/2 lap due to good old overheat. BMW M3, M5 have been used for Ring taxi for decades, lap after lap every day, no issues. for a 150k car I can't even drive on a public road(which the Ring is), its pretty funny.

Time for another correction. The "ring taxi" isn't an official Nürburgring program, or even a real taxi (you don't actually go anywhere, you wind up back at the starting point). Several companies offer "Ring Taxis", including BMW. Who uses BMW cars. Duh. It's called marketing.

Have we declared this a troll thread yet? And the OP a troll? With a name like BMW ///M3, can he be anything else?

 

[JohnSnowNW]

The 70D comes in at about 2X the price of a 228i with the x-drive option, so I would hope that it can match straight line performance. More than likely the 228i would destroy it on a tight roadway.

The model S is a great car, now stop trying to make it the 2nd coming of Jesus Christ. Petrol cars still win in many performance metrics and are far less expensive too.

Using the guys own metric against him isn't unreasonable, or fanatical...

No one is arguing that ICE cars don't have their performance benefit...simply that BEVs offer greater performance during everyday usage. Unless you use launch control, or similar, at every stop light or yield sign.

 

[BMW ///M3]

I agree @voip-ninja, these days the new B series engine uses water-2-air intercooler with less piping and very little lag. once you get to the power band which is defined as peak tq to peak hp, it is a monster whether its B48 2L B58 3L.

its so funny people starts to educate me about 'real world', as long as you can find a piece of tarmac and its legal to do what you do, that is the real world.

so let me summarize this for you, in the real world, a 70d can't even beat a lowly 228xi on a straight line, and will mostly go into limp mode after 2 laps at any fast tracks, pulling into pits while watching the 228xi go by laps after laps.

 

[Jaff]

To me, everything on your "Tesla could learn from BMW list" is rendered totally irrelevant by BMW's tailpipe...you can have your ancient "four cylinders of fury", I, like the majority of EV drivers, am not remotely interested in gadgetry over a clean energy propelled vehicle.

the admin asked me to list the stuff Tesla can learn from BMW, so here it goes: keep it mind when Model 3 comes out in 2018 or 2019 or which ever year you can actually get your hands on, the next 3 series would of been out on the street already. F30 3 series came out in 2012, so 2018 will be the next refresh.

-chassis construction: Model 3=steel mostly, next 3 series=carbon core (aluminum+carbon fiber) same method as the current 7 series. just keep in mind F150 is also aluminum. so I don't what is the big deal about good old steel on the Model 3. seems very backwards to me.

-HUD, LED display steering wheel design: BMW had perfected HUD and performance steering wheels for years, and both are optional on the current 3 series. I drove my friends Model S, no HUD such a disappointment.

-Heat management: some German magazine took a model s to the ring, it craps out under 1/2 lap due to good old overheat. BMW M3, M5 have been used for Ring taxi for decades, lap after lap every day, no issues. for a 150k car I can't even drive on a public road(which the Ring is), its pretty funny.

just FYI, I reserved a model 3 on 3/31 in store, and I will use that car for city and winter driving(beater). For pure driving pleasure, i have other dedicated tools for that.

last but not least, for education purposes, a basic 228xi does

2015 BMW 228i xDrive - Instrumented Test
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.0 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 13.3 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.7 sec @ 101 mph

which easily beats or matches a 70D.

the engine reaches peak at 1450rpm which is just 700rpm above idle.
Power: 240 hp @ 6500 rpm
Torque: 255 lb-ft @ 1450 rpm

 

[voip-ninja]

Using the guys own metric against him isn't unreasonable, or fanatical...

No one is arguing that ICE cars don't have their performance benefit...simply that BEVs offer greater performance during everyday usage. Unless you use launch control, or similar, at every stop light or yield sign.

Plenty of people are arguing that ICE don't have any performance benefit. When someone pipes in about how amazing the off-the-line performance of their Nissan Leaf is (a car I have driven and has 0-60 time of something like 10 seconds) it's just laughable. My 340xi does 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds w/out launch control. The car is pretty much fully loaded and the dealer let it go for $53,000 new.

EVs are really cool. I kind of like how they drive. I have a deposit down on a Model 3 because I'm interested in what the cost/performance ratio will be compared to the German cars I favor... for sure the Tesla will have technology that BMWs won't have at any price for years.

However, there's also reality and reality is that anyone who rides around in the back of a PROTOTYPE as a passenger and then tries to declare that it's game over for the absolute benchmark in sport sedans is taking a real strong drag of something mighty potent.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

However, there's also reality and reality is that anyone who rides around in the back of a PROTOTYPE as a passenger and then tries to declare that it's game over for the absolute benchmark in sport sedans is taking a real strong drag of something mighty potent.

I don't necessarily disagree, but that's not what this current sub-discussion is about. It's about BMW ///M3's flippant remarks concerning BEV performance.

A Model S's track-ability, or lack thereof, does not render its other benefits moot. As was the implication.

 

[Tiberius]

I like BMW, BMW is better, I signed up on teslamotorsclub.com to talk about BMW blah blah blah blah.....

Ok dude we get it, BMW is great. Every single post you've made so far basically says the same thing. Why are you even here then? I'm glad you enjoy your BMW but you're not going to convince anyone here to buy one over a Tesla. Consider your audience.

 

[Jason Bourne]

It's important to note that the people being interviewed in this video are the owners of a website that sells after-market accessories for Tesla vehicles. It's definitely in their best interest for people to love and buy Teslas.

That said, I have no opinion in this particular argument until I drive a Model 3 and if I drive a 3-series BMW.

 

[Snowdog]

My 340xi does 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds w/out launch control.

Seems like a dubious claim:

2016 BMW 340i xDrive - Instrumented Test

Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.2 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 7.1 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 6.5
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3

 

[BMW ///M3]

his could be chipped, a 500 USD jb4 piggy back will give you close to 380/400 tq. another great benefit of turbo cars.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

LOL for a car that can't even complete 2 laps on any decent track before the battery pack overheats.....

This and the majority of those on the forums don't autocross or do any performance driving. I'd gladly own a Model 3 and then buy a used Lotus Elise to smoke these fools on the track.

A Model S is pretty equal to an M3 in autocross but it weighs more and is bigger. same class but
LOL gas

 

[S'toon]

I find it interesting that the entire basis for BMW /// M3's comparison is on the entry level non-performance 70D.

He says he will have two cars, one the entry level Model 3 for beater, and one for fun. When he could just buy the the higher end Model 3 with performance specs, and save himself money. The heat issue has been solved with the improved fuses of the newer Model Ses.

His research is a little lacking.

 

[voip-ninja]

Seems like a dubious claim:

2016 BMW 340i xDrive - Instrumented Test

Zero to 60 mph: 4.9 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.2 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 7.1 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 6.5
Standing ¼-mile: 13.3

You quoting one test seems like a dubious claim considering that C&D, Road & Track and BMW themselves all cite faster 0-60 times.

If there's one thing turning me off to the thought of owning/driving a Tesla it's the near religious zealotry displayed by the Tesla community. You guys make Apple fans look like chill cats in comparison.