Model 3 SR+ LFP Battery Range, Degradation, etc Discussion

[karlos22]

It’s going to be fascinating eh - when these cars are ten years old - what range are they getting, what are they worth etc. Even if they’re still at 70%, if the other mechanicals are holding up, they should have decent value as a used car.

Indeed. I am watching the 2020 LFPs closely as I’d like one for a second car. I’m waiting to see if the facelift will push prices down a bit more on the older models.

Back on topic, I expect the LFP to degrade 10% or so then level off. I saw a post on a solar forum from a guy who had a LFP home storage, 10 years old and several thousand cycles at 90% capacity. Impressive if true.

 

[AAKEE]

Indeed. I am watching the 2020 LFPs closely as I’d like one for a second car. I’m waiting to see if the facelift will push prices down a bit more on the older models.

Back on topic, I expect the LFP to degrade 10% or so then level off. I saw a post on a solar forum from a guy who had a LFP home storage, 10 years old and several thousand cycles at 90% capacity. Impressive if true.

But the first LFP’s was on the 2021 M3 SR+…
Model year 2020 had NCA.

 

[DuncanM]

Not enough current to calibrate? What makes you say that? My understanding was that ‘calibration’ is happening right at the end of the charge when it’s sitting at 100% but still drawing a tiny current for like 30 mins or so. (My actual car says 100%, but the app says 99% for ages and draws super low current before hitting 100%)

The car has never displayed "calibrating" unless it's been connected to an L2/30amp or a DCFC.

 

[tgrobbo]

The car has never displayed "calibrating" unless it's been connected to an L2/30amp or a DCFC.

Yes I think the theory is that the cars only say that on public chargers, so you can hang around and calibrate if you want to, but you can also just unplug and go. At home the car will still cell balance & calibrate, but as you’re not normally about to go anywhere it just drops the current right down and might sit at 99% on the app for a while. When you see the amps drop down at around 99%, it should be balancing and ‘calibrating’ then. Hopefully someone can confirm this - as like a lot of Tesla stuff - this is just a theory I found on the internet lol.

 

[hgmichna]

I have had calibration phases several times at the end of charging at a Tesla Supercharger. It took 10 to 20 minutes.

 

[Bouba]

The calibration at the end of a supercharge only works if you are alone....otherwise it’s...’97% is enough let’s go !’

 

[AAKEE]

I have had calibration phases several times at the end of charging at a Tesla Supercharger. It took 10 to 20 minutes.

It is part of the balancing process.
You get it when using a WC as well.

The term ”calibration” is rather new ( somewhere around 1 year) but the charging process itself is not changed.

There is no need for any ”calibration” really, but to make all cells reach 100% or close enough the cells with higher voltage is shimmed of by burning some energy off, allowing the car to fill the ”low” cells closer to 100%. This is called balancing the cells (to reach the same voltage).

This because the cells are coupled in series and charging is done by pushing charge trough all cells at the same time. When the first cell has reached 100% you can not increase the voltage to push more to the low cells, but you can keep the charge voltage and wait for the low ones to slowly catch up.

 

[gtg465x]

The calibration at the end of a supercharge only works if you are alone....otherwise it’s...’97% is enough let’s go !’

97%!? For me, it’s “60% is enough, let’s go!” if I’m at a supercharger.

 

[m73b54]

My M3 RWD 11 months old with almost 30k miles shows 264mi at 100%. But interestingly, for the first 3-4 miles after full charge the range value doesn't decrease - it stays at 264. Does anyone notice something like that?

That is what I am talking about. The car is fully charged, and calibrated.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

That is what I am talking about. The car is fully charged, and calibrated.

View attachment 974527

(Edit: I guess we do need to ask if your drive started with a downhill, just to confirm that is not the reason for the initial plateau…I see a -0.4 which is 0.7 worse than expected…so expected was -1.1…which is significant…but anyway this is probably not the issue…)

This is interesting since it suggests a slightly different treatment of capacity in excess of the degradation threshold (of about 60.5kWh).

In the non-LFP cars they would start decreasing right away even if excess energy existed. (Perhaps this behavior has changed, but it used to work this way, with each mile being a bit more energetic.)

Anyway, now it is apparently behaving more like a traditional “top buffer” where there is range above 100%.

Would be interesting to see how this worked on SMT now, and then compare to old posts showing the older behavior with SMT (we did get confirmation posts with SMT data at some point showing the expanded rated miles, the prior behavior).

 

[Razor*87]

My 2022 model 3 with LFP battery charges to 259 at a 100%. A little over 11,500 miles. Tesla says the 2022 model should be 272. On my door it says 11/21. Confusing to me. So wondering is it really a 2021 but with the 2022 upgrades. I have the heated seats and steering wheel. Or is the range lost just that bad and a possible service call is needed.

Thanks for any insight.

 

[Black306]

Tesla started following other manufacturers by calling fall models by the following year in 2019; cars made in ~Oct ‘19 were ‘20 models. So your car is a ‘22 model year. You can confirm this by posting your VIN on websites like CarFax.

259 from 272 is less than 5% degradation which, IMO, is not bad. Tesla isn’t going to do anything until degradation reaches 30% anyway, so I wouldn’t worry about it.

 

[E90alex]

Normal degradation.

 

[ucmndd]

Or is the range lost just that bad and a possible service call is needed.

1) It's not "that bad". It's perfectly normal.

2) There is no need for a service call. You need to lose another 25% of range before you have any warrantable claim to discuss with Tesla.

 

[eevee-fan]

3 mo old 2023 Model 3 with 11k miles, thanks to free 3 mo Super Charging.
During the summer, my garage temp would be between 82F and 97F.
My 100% went down from 272 mi to 263 mi, so 3.3% degradation. Not sure if this is due to the high summer temp in the garage.

Free Super Charging ends in a few days, so I will be L2 charging at home and DCFC on trips.

 

[Randy-12]

My 16 month old car has just over 30K km's on it.
When new rated 438 kms (272 miles) now it shows 420 kms (about 261 miles)
So a loss of 18 kms works out to about 4.1%
From what I read this is about where it should be at this point.

 

[tgrobbo]

I gots an LFP car but it’s not an M3 - it’s a RWD MY and it had 433km when new and is now 427km after 12,000km and 10 months. A loss of 1.4%. It is street parked and only plugged in to charge when it gets below 20%. But as it’s a work charger I often have to leave before getting to 100% so sometimes go a month or more without hitting 100%. If it does go to 100%, it will also often sit like that for 15+ hours on the street afterwards. Basically I haven’t been nice to the battery in any sense, but it’s lost exactly the same as the other MY’s of the same age that have posted their range.

 

[DrChaos]

I gots an LFP car but it’s not an M3 - it’s a RWD MY and it had 433km when new and is now 427km after 12,000km and 10 months. A loss of 1.4%. It is street parked and only plugged in to charge when it gets below 20%. But as it’s a work charger I often have to leave before getting to 100% so sometimes go a month or more without hitting 100%. If it does go to 100%, it will also often sit like that for 15+ hours on the street afterwards. Basically I haven’t been nice to the battery in any sense, but it’s lost exactly the same as the other MY’s of the same age that have posted their range.

Actually you have been very nice to the battery keeping the average state of charge pretty low. You might have a bit worse BMS calibration charging to 100% less often but you'll have less battery degradation. Keep it up.

 

[SecurityForces]

Wonder if have a 2021 M3 LR with a lithium battery and needs a battery replacement will they just replace with a lithium or swap it to a LFP? anyone know?

 

[804son]

Wonder if have a 2021 M3 LR with a lithium battery and needs a battery replacement will they just replace with a lithium or swap it to a LFP? anyone know?

You will get the equivalent of your current battery, before the issue occurred that necessitated the replacement.