Model 3 Supercharging Capable Discussion

[marcmailer]

SuperChargers in model 3 what about the queues
charging will be included or be optional
very unlikely pay per charge

what about the queues
we know that tesla plan a software update to track how busy a super charger is.

in addition I expect ability to reserve your place in the queue to charge when you arrive.

Also if you have autopilot enabled, maybe any tesla can park in a waiting bay, and will move itself get charged and move back.

we know snake chargers that automatically connect are in development.

if all that I predict comes to reality and the tesla software can calculate everyone's battery charge requirements, the charge time, they can say it will take xx mins to charge inc wait time when you arrive.

you will know before you arrive at the charger how long a wait approx it will be before you leave.

IMAGINE THIS
You leave at 9.30am you know you plan to stop in about 2.5 to 3 hours at a charge station you reserve your charge spot, on screen the est charge inc wait time is 30 mins so maybe you have lunch or a coffee, toilet break.
Now you arrive you park in the waiting bay, the car moves and charges itself, you get an alert on your phone, charging has started and will complete by 12.30, when you come out your car is back in the waiting bay, so charge bays are always clear.

You arrived after 170miles with about 20% battery at the station, and leave with 85% battery charged, effortless just as telsa planned it.

 

[mhan00]

It's going to be free. Seriously, i'm sure the average person will use the supercharger 6x in a year. It's only going to cost $50 a year per car. they're not going to charge for it.

It shouldn't be free per use. Sure, most people will likely charge at home, but the minority who decide to abuse the superchargers will ruin the experience for everyone else. Don't underestimate people's willingness to wildly inconvenience themselves for something they perceive as free.

I used to top up my Leaf at my local Costco around 11pm for about 20 minutes after playing tennis while I grabbed a double double from the In and Out half a block away. I stopped being able to do it because soon there were three or more electric cars who started parking their overnight to take advantage of the free charge (only two available spaces, so it was a first come first served basis, I guess). I passed by a few times and saw guys getting picked up by their spouses after plugging in, so they were leaving the cars there all night and getting dropped off in the morning to pick them back up. A HUGE inconvenience, but from what I saw they were doing it every night until the Costco just started putting padlocks on the chargers at night. A local Chase branch has two chargers that get hogged every weekend when they leave them on and I see people sitting there reading or working for hours at a time to charge.

People will abuse the eff out of anything if you give them a chance. Most are pretty good and will try to be considerate, but you only need a few who will be selfish about it, which will inspire more people to be selfish u til the whole thing just sucks. The best solution would be for Tesla to figure out a way to charge cars for parking in the spot on a per minute basis to encourage owners to move their car when they're done charging, otherwise people WILL just leave their car their all day, keeping a charger occupied.

 

[R.S]

I wouldn't have a problem if it was pay per use, or even some kind of monthly payment. I personally don't think that it will be some kind of $2000 upgrade, but it could very well be. That would make the Model 3 a $37000 car, in my opinion, but it would still be $2000 well spent.

 

[smak]

You could also limit use by where the SuperCharger is. There are pretty distinctively different locations. Some are specifically on the way between major destinations, and some are in the city near big population centers.

You can do things differently based on that

-smak-

 

[Mark Z]

I will keep my options open. If cars are lining up at Superchargers during cross country road trips, I will use a gasoline vehicle for those trips. Zero time at the Superchargers equals fewer days of travel. Those savings can be used for fuel costs. It's a win-win for maximum convenience. The frustration is, what ICE vehicle performs like a Tesla?

At that point, the Model S, ☰ or X will continue to be charged at home for local use and driven on longer day trips when Superchargers are available without a line of cars to access the station.

 

[AUSinator]

It's simple : you pay for your super charger use, your more likely going to have a good experience, you will have alot more super charges to choose from ,your going to help Tesla make better cars and better super chargers. For us it's a low expense but worth it.

 

[IsellCisco]

I like pay per use as well. I only see myself using it maybe once or twice a year, but would like access when needed. I cannot see paying an upfront fee to only use it so infrequently. I do not think I will ever see a return.

Disclaimer: I already drive a Leaf so I do understand EV charging and how infrequently I require charging outside of my home.

 

[Jason Bourne]

Link to source?

A quick Google returns these:
Tesla Sends Out Supercharger Abuse Emails - Model S Owners Not Impressed
Tesla Letter To “Frequent” Supercharger Users Ruffles Feathers & Raises Several Questions

 

[diamond.g]

From what I understand Tesla cannot charge per kWh, they can only charge for time. The one EVSE I have seen walking around Crystal City charges 40 cents a minute and 75 cents for an hour, so you would end up with similar issues where it is cheaper to leave your vehicle on the EVSE for an hour than it is to use if for 30-45 minutes.

Chipotle | Arlington, VA | Electric Car Charging Station | PlugShare

 

[Jason Bourne]

From what I understand Tesla cannot charge per kWh, they can only charge for time. The one EVSE I have seen walking around Crystal City charges 40 cents a minute and 75 cents for an hour, so you would end up with similar issues where it is cheaper to leave your vehicle on the EVSE for an hour than it is to use if for 30-45 minutes.

Forty cents a minute, or 75 cents for an hour? How does that make any sense (no pun intended)? Who would charge for literally only a minute?

 

[realtycoon]

First time poster, long time Tesla follower and Day One Model 3 Reservation Holder.

I get where Tesla is going with this. I would suggest that for Model 3's, an annual limit of Free Supercharger visits be included, set it an a number to cover road trips, while discouraging local daily use. Call is"Supercharger Standard" Perhaps a limit of 100-200 Supercharger visits per year and a pay per use after that point, and offer higher batteries and trim levels to have it included for free.

I don't know if I would pay $1000-2000 for unlocking supercharging, for the occasional road trip use. At that price, I'd most likely end up taking my Gas SUV for trips and that would be counter to the Tesla vision of EVs.

 

[ummgood]

I want to make note that in the drive test videos not one had a driver open the charging port. I remember someone asking about it and they just pointed out "this is where it is" but they didn't open it. When asked they were willing to open the trunk but not the charging port. Why do you think that is?

My thought is they are changing the charging port to make it easier for automation to plug it in. Imagine with every car having auto pilot hardware you could pull up into a waiting spot at a supercharger station and tell your car that you want to charge and how much. Then you leave your car and it waits for the next available stall. When one comes available it automatically pulls into the spot and the charger is connected automatically. When done your car is automatically disconnected and pulls out to allow room for another car. You get a notification that your car is finished via your phone or watch...

There won't be the need to upgrade to full auto pilot for this because the hardware is there. You'll get it included with the car. You still won't be able to use auto steer on the road or the advanced cruise control but at a super charging station your car would be autonomous.

This solves a lot of the issues I have seen. It wouldn't be that far fetched to think that they are planning with all these extra supercharger stations to add this capability.

 

[diamond.g]

Forty cents a minute, or 75 cents for an hour? How does that make any sense (no pun intended)? Who would charge for literally only a minute?

No clue, but that appears to be the price ChargePoint is asking for for their chargers. It seems to heavily favor people charging at work, or those eating/shopping. Fashion Center charges 2 dollars for an hour but they have L3 chargers (chademo and CCS DCFC).

 

[dsm363]

You could easily say all current S and X owners receive lifetime free charging and then future long distance traveling for all however Tesla would define that. A cheap pay per use system would be ideal. Make it the same as the electricity cost at home so apartment and condo dwellers aren't punished and no one would have a legitimate reason to complain. They still would complain as they want free electricity while they shop for groceries but it would help limit local Supercharging to those who really needed it.

 

[ChadFeldheimer]

This solves a lot of the issues I have seen. It wouldn't be that far fetched to think that they are planning with all these extra supercharger stations to add this capability.

While this obviously increases the efficiency of a given supercharger (solving the problem of charged cars occupying supercharger stalls), it also can increase demand by making it easier to top up at a supercharger - since you would no longer need to wait for a spot to open up.

Tesla has recently begun posting valets at busy supercharger locations. This might be a better approach than a fully automated system, as abusers of the system might be less aggressive in the presence of the valet.

Would be interesting to see if the valets have changed demand - either decreasing it by discouraging abusers or increasing it by making the supercharger easier to use.

 

[ummgood]

While this obviously increases the efficiency of a given supercharger (solving the problem of charged cars occupying supercharger stalls), it also can increase demand by making it easier to top up at a supercharger - since you would no longer need to wait for a spot to open up.

Tesla has recently begun posting valets at busy supercharger locations. This might be a better approach than a fully automated system, as abusers of the system might be less aggressive in the presence of the valet.

Would be interesting to see if the valets have changed demand - either decreasing it by discouraging abusers or increasing it by making the supercharger easier to use.

Valets cost money per hour. I am guessing the desire from corporate would be to remove the cost if possible. Currently there is no alternative but to have the delay. Imagine the network knows how many cars are waiting at a supercharger and how long they'll need to charge. It should be possible for your screen to tell you how much wait is at each supercharger. I would guess that knowledge would help people not be frustrated. If I was doing a road trip and knew that the total time from arrival to fully charged would be 1 hour 20 minutes then I would know what I was getting into. It would also be possible to charge for things like priority or have your car know roughly when you were arriving based on your GPS route info.

 

[diamond.g]

Do we know if the SC sends back info or if the car sends back info about it's charging. According to @wk057 currently it doesn't appear to care what the VIN is, just that you have the bit for SC enabled at the car.

 

[Chuq]

I don't think they will go to a pay-per-use format. The cost of the supercharger is in the initial construction. The electricity is almost nothing, they have said. By making it free they don't need a payment/billing system either. I think it will be an option to enable it on the base model (perhaps US$2000) and included with the higher models – similar to how the Model S did it – it used to be optional on the 60 kWh MS.

Some superchargers have suffered from crowding at peak times. If $2000 from each vehicle went towards expansion of the network, this could be avoided. If people don't elect to pay the $2000 because they have the option of just paying $15 per use – it will prevent the network from being expanded but not lower the demand at those peak times (since that is when the casual user will most likely need them the most).

 

[nwdiver]

Q: How do you make a debate about the cost difference of an EV that amounts to <10% last for >1 week?

A: Discuss how to fund of a charging network.

 

[diamond.g]

Q: How do you make a debate about the cost difference of an EV that amounts to <10% last for >1 week?

A: Discuss how to fund of a charging network.

lol, it is probably why GM said no to doing it at all...