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Model S 100D charging now and in future? [includes poll]

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by OPRCE, Jun 19, 2018.

?

Will Tesla within 5 years offer a Model S with >100kWh battery capacity?

Poll closed Jul 3, 2018.
  1. Yes

    93.6%
  2. No

    6.4%
  1. OPRCE

    OPRCE Member

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    Jun 16, 2018
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    Location:
    Bern, Switzerland
    Hi everyone, I am a new forum member who very happily took delivery of a red Model S 100D on Monday 18. June 2018 and for a start just wanted to ask:

    1. What is the maximum charging rate ever seen on an S100D at the supercharger?

    2. At what percentage SoC does this value start to taper off?

    3. How long to charge from 0 to 100% on SC at ~25°C ambient temperature?

    4. How long to charge from 0 to 100% on SC at ~25°C ambient temperature?

    5. Will the S100D battery will be able to handle the Gen3 200kW superchargers which will appear in the [hopefully] near future [at same voltage, increased current]? If so, at what max. rate would the battery be expected to charge?

    Thanks for any intel on the subject and please do the poll below!

    Sincerely, OPRCE
     
  2. Tiger

    Tiger Member

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    Estonia
    100 simply does not cut it. We usually travel 2,5h to a day trip destination and back later at the end of the day. It is not practical to charge during drive time and there is no charging opportunity at destination. Approximately 300 mile trip true range and depending on conditions a 350-400 mile nominal range would be safe. This would mean a P120D or P130D. But until then, ICE it is.
     
  3. Phrixotrichus

    Phrixotrichus Member

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    Germany
    Voted yes, because that`s what I hope. Even a S100D barely gets beyond 200km of range at german Autobahn speeds which simply isn`t satisfactory at a 100k+ pricepoint.
    The "biggest and best" battery also seems like a logical premium attribute for any EV.
     
  4. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    I'm curious if there is supposed to be some difference between these two.
     
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  5. Snowstorm

    Snowstorm Member

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    Ontario Canada
    Note that you would almost never and never want to charge from 0-100% on a Supercharger. 20-70% is much more desirable range when doing long distance driving. You don’t want to arrive below 20% to have buffer for unexpected detours, chargng above 70% slows down a lot.

    In my experience, I get 115-118kw up to about 60%, then it slows to about 90kw at 70% and then much more slowly after that, at 50kw at 80% and max I have ever SC was to about 85% which it was around 40kw.

    So from 20-70% is about 25min
     
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  6. chillaban

    chillaban Active Member

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    That’s about my observation too. 116kW is the max I’ve seen on my S100D and it’s also fairly consistently my charging rate when first arriving.

    At around 60% SOC is the first sign of tapering, down to about 90kW. After 70% the charging rate rapidly tapers down.

    My road trip rule of thumb is if I am waiting for the charge (as opposed to having a leisurely meal stop), after it tapers to 80kW as long as I can make it to the next supercharger I will override the trip planner and do that.

    20->60 or 20->70 is really the best charge plan. That also was the biggest selling point for me for the 100D. I find a lot of new buyers are completely fixated on the question “do I have enough range to make it from point A to point B” when they should also consider the supercharging curve.

    If you need 200 rated miles to get to the next charger, going from 100 to 200 miles on a 100D takes about the same amount of time as going from 180 to 200 miles on a 75D thanks to tapering down to the sub-50kW range!
     
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  7. OPRCE

    OPRCE Member

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    Lol, well put, my friend! ;)
    The answer is yes, the first one is of course meant to be written as "0..80%", but, due to my subpar copypasta skills, was not.
     
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  8. OPRCE

    OPRCE Member

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    I see your point but even without checking the map suspect that Estonia is not exactly littered with SuperCharger stalls in the same way that Switzerland, Germany or Norway currently are, in which case topping up underway to destination in 30min for another 400km of rated range is perfectly feasible.
    However, I expect the network should improve rapidly up in your area also, so maybe you can drop the ICE sooner than you'd think?
     
  9. OPRCE

    OPRCE Member

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    Cheers, Snowstorm, am delighted that this is exactly the kind of info I was looking for!

    On roadtrips I personally will aim to arrive at SC with ~10% [poss. due to higher charger density in Europe than Canadaland] then charge to 80% in ~35min, most of which time should be at or around the 118kW rate you have experienced.

    May I also enquire if you recharge at night using the onboard AC rectifier and, if so, how long this takes at your supply amperage?
     
  10. OPRCE

    OPRCE Member

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    Yes, I had test-driven a Model S 75D for the week-end before ordering my own car and the maximum charge rate from 5% was 95kW, so was certainly hoping the 100D could do significantly better due to having more lines of cells in parallel, thus allowing for increased current pumpage. Am very happy to hear confirmed that the maximum SC output is really reachable, though I have yet to see it in action on my own vehicle.

    Thanks for the very useful tips and may I enquire how you voted in the poll, if that is not too personal a question?
     
  11. Snowstorm

    Snowstorm Member

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    That will depend on your voltage and current. Note that you should not charge to 100% unless you need it for a long trip as it is bad for the battery to do that often, so usually stop charging at 80%. Note that charging with AC level 2 doesn’t encounter the slow down or taper until maybe 98-99%.

    If you have 240V and say 48 amp, you will charge at 12kw so about 5hr for a 20%-80% fill. If you only have 32amp, then at 8kw you will take 7hr for the same.
     
  12. PatrickCH4313

    PatrickCH4313 Member

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    At home with a 16 A /400 V installation you can charge at a rate of 66 km/h. So enough time during the night (low rate).
     
  13. Tiger

    Tiger Member

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    Estonia
    Feasible yes, but not cool, because we typically travel in a convoy with multiple cars, and saying to the ICE's that I have to stop for 30 minute pee would be embarrassing and IMHO PITA. I'd rather drive an ICE until this kind of simple journey is possible without stopping.

    I have been expecting this for quite some time, but hasn't happened yet and won't hold my breath. I'm keen to see if IONITY will get here first and which formidable EVs will be compatible with it by that time.
     
  14. Tozz

    Tozz Active Member

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    1. 118kW
    2. Not exactly sure, but I think around 60%
    3. Don't know, never charged to 100%. However, to 90% takes about 40 minutes (starting from +/- 10%)
    4. Not at same voltage. Remember that it is the battery that drains current from the SuC and thus determines the current. The charger can't just "put X amps in". The car/pack has to drain X amps. That is why it tapers as well, because the batteries can't drain as much when their reaching capacity compared to when they are empty. Only thing the SuC can do is restrict the amount of amps going to your car.

    I don't SuC frequently, but when I do I combine it with buying a drink, have lunch or whatever. That usually takes longer than the charging.
    I also get backpain after driving for more than 2 hours, so a little walk is welcome for me as well.
     
  15. OPRCE

    OPRCE Member

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    Bern, Switzerland
    Thanks to everyone who participated with replies and answering the poll!

    FWIW, I personally think Tesla will never increase the battery capacity of the Model S beyond 100kWh, as that would only detract from production/sales of Model 3 in the next crucial 5 years, during which time they have to make their real money on it.

    Then, as the SuperCharger and other DCFC networks are built out and motor/inverter efficiencies increase, there will be a diminishing necessity for the weight of very large batteries to be carted around, hence the Model Y will also probably never exceed 100kWh.
     

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