Once in a while I've hit both at once, but I can feel that I'm doing it. If I don't have time to reposition my foot I just treat it like I'm doing a heel-and-toe and tilt my foot to push on the brake.
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Model S Brake & Accelerator Pedal Positions
- Thread starter efusco
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
pilotSteve
Active Member
Newer production (like the loaner I had last week, VIN 14k) HAS repositioned pedal(s). There is 0.5 inch approximately depth difference. Very good safety feature IMO.
I wonder if there will be a recall or service bulletin to retrofit older production. Seems like it would be a VERY good idea to offer that for owners that request it.
I wonder if there will be a recall or service bulletin to retrofit older production. Seems like it would be a VERY good idea to offer that for owners that request it.
0.5" more or 0.5" total?
My 2012 MSP has at least a half inch difference between the pedals. but when you press the brake with wide shoes with your shoe over both the brake and accelerator, at some point, you'll push the go pedal, too, since the brake has more than a half inch of travel.
My SLK32 has several inches of depth difference, but as I noted before, that creates a hazard in getting your foot from the gas to the brake. I just rented a Nissan Versa last weekend, and my foot got stuck trying to get to the brake. It wasn't an emergency, so it wasn't a problem, but it really ticks me off.
I think as long as the firmware disengages the electric torque when the brake is pressed, the Tesla pedal positions shouldn't be a problem. Since that appears to be the current situation, I think my car is now safer than most cars in brake pedal positioning.
pilotSteve
Active Member
1/2" more offset is what I meant. I did not measure this (and have since returned the new loaner) but this was my visual estimate. It solves my complaint about occasionally pressing both pedals so whatever amount they increased it to is another example of good Tesla engineering.
and with my latest version of v4.5,
now it's back to allowing large positive electric torque while the brakes are providing large negative friction torque.
I think this is very bad. I think the behavior from before is far more desirable.
Ahh, I think I see the difference:
accelerator then brake -> electric torque is cut. only brake is active.
brake then accelerator -> electric torque is live. 100 kW of battery power + 100 kW of friction brakes = no acceleration.
and with the position of the brakes, the latter is the one that happens when you're wearing wide shoes and you press the brake and accelerator at the same time. The brake is closer to you, so you hit that one first, and then as you press, you press the accelerator. When you press harder, you get more friction brake AND more electric acceleration.
Again, I think this is bad.
I experienced this for first time this spring, 15 months into ownership. Why? Pothole season in Chicago. Normally, I use regen for 80% of stop, have foot completely off accelerator before applying brake, must have plenty of time to fully move foot - regardless of shoes. Now, when a deep pothole shows up on my visual radar, I sometimes have to jam on brakes, and all too easy to catch some accelerator in the process. Bringing car into SC Thursday to see if there's anything they can do about it. Will post result, if anyone's listening… seems like a long time dormant for this thread.
Accidentally pressing break and accelerator at the same time
I just purchased a P85+ three weeks ago and had am occurrence that owners should know, I was approaching a signal light and it changed causing me to have to push of the breaks hard, however the car did not stop, an alarm went off and it felt as if it wanted to accelerate, the car finally stopped halfway into the intersection, luckily no other cars were there. After talking to Tesla support and reviewing the logs, I was told that the issue was that I accidentally pushed on BOTH break and accelerator pedals at the same time, a common occurrence with men with large shoes, I'm only size 11, fairly average, but that evening I was wearing wide sole shoes. Be aware that both pedals are very close and this can happen to anyone, I'm much more aware of the position of my foot when pressing the break now. Be safe.
I just purchased a P85+ three weeks ago and had am occurrence that owners should know, I was approaching a signal light and it changed causing me to have to push of the breaks hard, however the car did not stop, an alarm went off and it felt as if it wanted to accelerate, the car finally stopped halfway into the intersection, luckily no other cars were there. After talking to Tesla support and reviewing the logs, I was told that the issue was that I accidentally pushed on BOTH break and accelerator pedals at the same time, a common occurrence with men with large shoes, I'm only size 11, fairly average, but that evening I was wearing wide sole shoes. Be aware that both pedals are very close and this can happen to anyone, I'm much more aware of the position of my foot when pressing the break now. Be safe.
Vger
Active Member
I have had the same thing happen to me, once, like you, where it was almost a big problem. Like you also, I have learned to be more specific about foot placement!
I really think this needs attention. They should let the brake pedal take full precedence. They know the event happens; why not just ignore the accelerator input when heavy pressure is on the brake?! Should be a firmware fix.
I really think this needs attention. They should let the brake pedal take full precedence. They know the event happens; why not just ignore the accelerator input when heavy pressure is on the brake?! Should be a firmware fix.
dennis
Model S Plaid
I wear size 12 EE (wide) and had this happen during a panic stop. Fortunately I was also steering away from the stopped traffic in front of me toward some open space and no damage was done. After some experimentation I determined that in my haste to get the brake (not break) pedal engaged I did not move my foot far enough to the left and thus engaged both pedals.
There are conditions where you really want both pedals depressed, though they don't happen often in decent weather on public roads.
VW has a solution to this that I thought was common on newer cars and have since learned isn't - they likely developed/kept it because of the unintended acceleration lawsuits with Audis in the mid-80s.
On any drive-by-wire VW, when you hit the brake while the accelerator is depressed, it zeros the accelerator. If you need both at the same time, you can release and reapply the accelerator, and it'll then stay live until the next time you hit the brakes. Simple and effective, like a lot of VW engineering.
Walter
VW has a solution to this that I thought was common on newer cars and have since learned isn't - they likely developed/kept it because of the unintended acceleration lawsuits with Audis in the mid-80s.
On any drive-by-wire VW, when you hit the brake while the accelerator is depressed, it zeros the accelerator. If you need both at the same time, you can release and reapply the accelerator, and it'll then stay live until the next time you hit the brakes. Simple and effective, like a lot of VW engineering.
Walter
pilotSteve
Active Member
Agreed, same thing has happened to me but fortunately intersection was empty when I finally came to a stop smack in the middle of it!
I talked with my service advisor and had him drive the car. He wrote up notes for the factory.
Yes as discussed in other threads there are some justifications (like hill start on a severe slope and in a show drift) but imo there is NO valid case to have both power and brake applied simultaneously when going over, say, 10MPH.
Of further note, Signature cars like mine have the pedals closer together than production cars, I'm quite sure. So it has changed (quietly) at least once.
I talked with my service advisor and had him drive the car. He wrote up notes for the factory.
Yes as discussed in other threads there are some justifications (like hill start on a severe slope and in a show drift) but imo there is NO valid case to have both power and brake applied simultaneously when going over, say, 10MPH.
Of further note, Signature cars like mine have the pedals closer together than production cars, I'm quite sure. So it has changed (quietly) at least once.
The following part of the article rang true for me too. I really think the pedal placement creates what the author calls "design induced human error". I don't have 50 years of driving experience, but in the prior 20 years I never had a problem until my Model S. It's been a few months, but I hit both pedals again just this last week when backing out of my garage (steep slope, so I typically brake as I back down).
The S is a gigantic car, I really don't understand why it has such cramped pedal placement.
To be fair he is trying to find something to write an article about.
I still don't see this as a big issue but it seems to be for others so if there is something in firmware Tesla can do that would be great.
No thanks. I don't want abrupt braking when I graze the brake pedal.
One man's "simple fix" is another "please don't change this".
That's not remotely what Vger said. He said "heavy braking", not "graze". Further, he said to give the brake precendence, not to create a "abrupt" stop. If you grazed the brake, it'd then be a gentle braking (probably not too far akin from cruise control shutting off when you graze the brake).
Make sure you've read and understand what he's posted before dismissing it. If I'm being generous, you simply failed to read his post. It looks more like you intentionally mangled it to use the straw man defense.
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From the article, which seems relevant to point out. Tesla already cuts the power and gives the brake precedence...sometimes, depending on what pedal got pressed first.
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