It's interesting that the sentiments on this are so evenly divided: roughly half of the commenters saying it is a big deal and half saying it's not a problem. It happens to me quite regularly and has so far been no more than mildly disconcerting, but I can appreciate that in a panic stop you would absolutely not want to mistakenly press both pedals. I've experimented with placing my heel in different spots, but the placement that seems to eliminate the problem is not my default, and feels awkward.
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Model S Brake & Accelerator Pedal Positions
- Thread starter efusco
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
It's interesting that the sentiments on this are so evenly divided: roughly half of the commenters saying it is a big deal and half saying it's not a problem. It happens to me quite regularly and has so far been no more than mildly disconcerting, but I can appreciate that in a panic stop you would absolutely not want to mistakenly press both pedals. I've experimented with placing my heel in different spots, but the placement that seems to eliminate the problem is not my default, and feels awkward.
Must be a habitual thing with some drivers and some driving styles. For me it only happens when I'm in need of a slow down in a big hurry- I think what happens is that I'm pivoting so fast from accelerator to brake pedal that I'm just pressing the side of the brake pedal and unwittingly pressing the accelerator at the same time - it's very alarming when it happens because the car does not slow down nearly enough when it's most needed. You can bet I'm now being extremely careful and aware now of what my foot is doing down there.
I notice too that when I drive barefoot, my footprint is a bit smaller and it seems like I have a better tactile feel for what's going on down there. It's more pleasurable for me to drive that way too, but not always practical.
I notice too that when I drive barefoot, my footprint is a bit smaller and it seems like I have a better tactile feel for what's going on down there. It's more pleasurable for me to drive that way too, but not always practical.
12,000 miles and I really have never found this to be an issue.
If it is an issue, I don't see a problem changing the behavior to have the brake override the accelerator if both are depressed for more than .2 seconds (or some short period of time).
If it is an issue, I don't see a problem changing the behavior to have the brake override the accelerator if both are depressed for more than .2 seconds (or some short period of time).
.2 seconds is forever in an emergency stop. Just have the brake always trump the accelerator. There's no real reason not to that I can think of.
Agree- those using brake pedal + accelerator as a "hill holder" should use creep mode.
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I tweeted this to Elon. I don't think he reads all his tweets (he probably only gets 10K random tweets a day.) I hope that this comes to his attention before someone has a horrible accident...
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I tweeted this to Elon. I don't think he reads all his tweets (he probably only gets 10K random tweets a day.) I hope that this comes to his attention before someone has a horrible accident...
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When I did a recent test drive in a Model S P85, the first thing I noticed was my foot pressing both pedals. I had had the same experience with an Audi Q5 when I test drove that a few years ago.
During the Tesla test drive it happened a couple times. Having learned how to deal with it in the Q5 (which I bought), I figured I could learn how to deal with it in the Tesla.
BUT the thing I was disappointed with in the Tesla is there is zero room to the right of the accelerator pedal. The wall is just right there, unlike in many (most?) vehicles. No place to rest one's foot if on a long trip in cruise control mode.
During the Tesla test drive it happened a couple times. Having learned how to deal with it in the Q5 (which I bought), I figured I could learn how to deal with it in the Tesla.
BUT the thing I was disappointed with in the Tesla is there is zero room to the right of the accelerator pedal. The wall is just right there, unlike in many (most?) vehicles. No place to rest one's foot if on a long trip in cruise control mode.
^This. In my case, I think it's the fact that I tend to rest my knee against the center console, which puts my lower leg at an angle to the pedals so that the right edge of my sole is closer to the firewall (that archaic term) than the left edge. When I don't quite get enough of my foot on the brake pedal, the right edge of my sole can overlap the accelerator, and the accelerator isn't offset far enough forward w/r/t the brake pedal, IMO, so I can actuate both at the same time.
Babylonfive
Power12
Absolutely. Depends on how you angle your feet. Depends on if you lift to move your foot between pedals or you tend to slide from one to the other. Depends on how you positions your legs (my wife's are straight right under the steering wheel, mine are akimbo with the wheel at it's lowest setting practically in my lap). Probably depends on how big your actual feet are and maybe what type of shoes you wear.
Tons of variance. Some folks will be prone to it, some won't.
Almost 5K miles and no problem for me. I did have one instance of pedal confusion and pushed on the accelerator to stop. Not hard and nothing happened other than me being surprised. This was on the third or fourth day of ownership. Hasn't happened since.
Probably varies a bit by car. I suspect that in a gas car the very light touch on the throttle while braking just goes unnoticed, but in the S the software detects that light throttle pressure and triggers the "simultaneous pedals" detection.
I used to have an old car that liked to die when coming to a stop so I actually learned to press the brake with half of my foot while keeping a slight pressure on the gas with the other half to keep the car from stalling
.My basketball shoes have wider soles than my other shoes, and if I drive wearing them, I sometimes touch the accelerator when pressing the brake. I've never really pressed the accelerator pedal that way; I've just brushed it, and have had no trouble only applying pressure to the brake.
Many cars (including my M-B SLK32) get around the problem by having the neutral position of the brake much closer to the driver than the neutral position of the gas pedal. Even if you use huge paddles for shoes, you'll push the brake much harder than the gas pedal. The thing I hate about this is that if you're in a rush to get from the gas pedal to the brake, you might not pull your foot close enough to your shin and you'll hit the side of the brake and be unable to depress the brake. This has happened to me several times in my SLK, and I really hate it.
I'd be okay if they moved the brake pedal very slightly closer to the driver and very slightly left, but if you move things too much then it makes it harder to get to the brake quickly, and that's dangerous.
I do use the brake + accelerator at the same time on occasion when on a steep hill (> 8%) at a stop light. I'm glad this works.
I'd be fine if they limited things, though. For instance, I'd be fine if the brake overrode the accelerator when speed > 10 mph. I'd also be fine if the brake limited the electric torque, so pressing both pedals hard would mean that the friction brake deceleration torque easily beat the electric acceleration torque.
In summary:
1) I like that brake + accelerator works on steep hills.
2) I think it would be reasonable for them to apply some software limits to the brake + accelerator system, as long as they don't completely disable it.
3) I prefer the current pedal placement to the placement on many cars that make it difficult for me to quickly get to the brake.
4) I'd be okay with minor tweaks to the brake placement, but I hope they don't move the brake too much.
Many cars (including my M-B SLK32) get around the problem by having the neutral position of the brake much closer to the driver than the neutral position of the gas pedal. Even if you use huge paddles for shoes, you'll push the brake much harder than the gas pedal. The thing I hate about this is that if you're in a rush to get from the gas pedal to the brake, you might not pull your foot close enough to your shin and you'll hit the side of the brake and be unable to depress the brake. This has happened to me several times in my SLK, and I really hate it.
I'd be okay if they moved the brake pedal very slightly closer to the driver and very slightly left, but if you move things too much then it makes it harder to get to the brake quickly, and that's dangerous.
I do use the brake + accelerator at the same time on occasion when on a steep hill (> 8%) at a stop light. I'm glad this works.
I'd be fine if they limited things, though. For instance, I'd be fine if the brake overrode the accelerator when speed > 10 mph. I'd also be fine if the brake limited the electric torque, so pressing both pedals hard would mean that the friction brake deceleration torque easily beat the electric acceleration torque.
In summary:
1) I like that brake + accelerator works on steep hills.
2) I think it would be reasonable for them to apply some software limits to the brake + accelerator system, as long as they don't completely disable it.
3) I prefer the current pedal placement to the placement on many cars that make it difficult for me to quickly get to the brake.
4) I'd be okay with minor tweaks to the brake placement, but I hope they don't move the brake too much.
I like those ideas. Both times that this occurred to me I was in urgent need of full stopping power, and got caught off guard as my stopping power was maybe not even half of what I expected. Very alarming and scary. Even if accelerator is slightly pressed, and brake pedal is also pressed, you aren't getting the normal stopping power that you would get because you are missing the full re-gen. Going at high speed there is no need to press both pedals - yeah other cars let you do it, but this isn't just a "normal" car. Let's make it even better! I hope some Tesla engineers get wind of this and make a change. It probably requires a change to the core car firmware because it deals with the mission critical side of things...
mknox
Well-Known Member
The pedal placement seems perfectly normal to me. I would think if it was in any way different from other cars I drive, or have driven in the past, I would have noticed. I even have no problem driving with my winter boots on. Maybe the models of cars I'm used to just happen to have similar pedal placement to the Tesla, and those that are having issues drove cars with a somewhat different pedal placement. As a point of reference, the pedals seem virtually identical in placement to my previous '09 Cadillac CTS.
A well designed brake override is already in place on the Model S. This was not the case during the July 2012 GetAmped test drives. I specifically tested this (See my account at Get-Amped-Tour-Chicago-7-26-7-28#post169315. Afterwards I was in contact with Tesla on this issue, and a firmware change occurred sometime in November or December.
I have since tested this again two weeks ago, and brake override is immediate and complete. It is working exactly as it should. My only comment is that I could do without the annoying double chime that sounds when you depress the accelerator before releasing the brake.
As soon as you depress the brake while also depressing the accelerator, motor torque is cut. There is also a double chime/dong sound and a message is displayed on the driver information display. If you have firmware version 4.1 or later, you will have the brake override.
For this to work you have to depress the brake, though. I almost drove over a jogger in a Prius once when the sole of my dress shoe caught behind the brake pedal. The only way to prevent this is to use your left foot for braking, and your right foot for accelerating. This is what I have done since the jogger incident.
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