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Model S Delivery Issues and Communication Concerns

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I reserved my car the very first day that you could in 2009 so I am quite familiar with every promise, commitment and forecast that Tesla made throughout the process. Quite frankly many of the people complaining simply don't have their facts straight. Whether people have selective memories, are predisposed to complain, or are simply trolls out to annoy others I don't know, but I don't see how a reasonable person would think that writing anonymous diatribes on a message board gets them anywhere or solves any problems.

If you are so upset then either complain to Tesla directly or cancel your order and buy something else. If you are so unhappy about your purchase before you even receive the car then it isn't going to get any better.

Really? Now I'm a selective memory troll? That is fairly offensive. Can't a person want the process to be better and shouldn't other current and potential reservation holders see that there are problems so they can make an informed decision about what to do? Motortrend didn't rate the reservation, sequencing, and delivery process. How else is a person to get details about how the company runs?

Your post also assumes that Tesla doesn't look at these posts. GeorgeB posts here, and I know personally he looks at posts here and at the official forum.

With that, I am going Tesla silent for awhile. Happy Thanksgiving.
 
People may not think that the Sigs have enough extra value to warrant the additional $10K but that is different than claiming a $10K tax for faster delivery.

There's where we disagree. I considered getting a Sig. After careful evaluation, I decided not to because I didn't think the earlier delivery was worth it (especially because of my early R number). The only other stuff I would have gotten was the badging and some special colors that didn't interest me. In fact, as you can see from my specs below, other than the colors, my car is the exact same configuration as many Sigs out there. I know there are Sig holders out there who would have been fine without those colors and the badging, but paid the $10k extra just for early delivery (as would have been my case). So, to me the $10k would be nothing more than an early delivery tax, and there are many others for whom this was the case.
 
I would like to pose a hypothetical situation that I could see would cause Tesla problems.
2 Sigs, one reservation number apart
Both Sigs enter production, back to back
Sig number one breezes through to delivery
Sig number two fails QC for something serious
Sig number two must reenter the production line to fix whatever issue it was
Sig number two fails QC a 2nd time
Sig number two reenters the production and is successfully proceeding to delivery

The problem from Tesla's point of view, it would seem to me, would be not wanting to communicate the fact that Sig number two has had problems, and is therefore somehow tainted in the eye of the buyer. But because the reservation numbers and deliveries are so well reported here, they really can't hide the fact that something is different between Sig number one and Sig number two. So they adhere to the old dictum, don't complain, don't explain. I'm thinking the sooner they can scrap reservation number tracking, the better off they'll be. When you custom order a Mercedes, all you know is the month it will be produced by. Usually the car is built a couple of months before that. The advantage of a well capitalized, mature process, I suppose.
 
I'm not aware of Model X investments in the time frame between the first ramp-up delays (which caused the requests for additional communication) and the offering.
I'm not sure what your point is on that.

The ramp-up delays had nothing to do with the lack of sufficient DS employees and actually gave Tesla more time to get DS folks hired. Tesla has stuck to their statements about the 2012 ramp up plans for a couple years, this need for people isn't a sudden surprise. If, as you suggested, Tesla didn't hire them for fear of solvency then that was a decision made months ago before Telsa even knew they would be ramp up delays, which makes no sense since at that time they expected to ship 5000 cars which would have meant no issues with getting to cash flow break even this year.
 
So, to me the $10k would be nothing more than an early delivery tax, and there are many others for whom this was the case.

My understanding is that at least to some it is a matter of supporting-the-best-electric-car-company.

I don't quite understand your use of the word "tax" (which isn't exactly a popular term), given that jumping the line by making a signature reservation is completely optional.

(And IIRC the difference is either $3k+, or $5k+, not $10k.)

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I'm not sure what your point is on that.

The ramp-up delays had nothing to do with the lack of sufficient DS employees and actually gave Tesla more time to get DS folks hired. Tesla has stuck to their statements about the 2012 ramp up plans for a couple years, this need for people isn't a sudden surprise. If, as you suggested, Tesla didn't hire them for fear of solvency then that was a decision made months ago before Telsa even knew they would be ramp up delays, which makes no sense since at that time they expected to ship 5000 cars which would have meant no issues with getting to cash flow break even this year.

Not sure which problems you were discussing, I was discussing the demand on delivery specialists to spend time on investigating and communicating delays. Furthermore I also suggested the reason might have been a lack of qualified applicants.

However, it seems that *all* investments, and *all* staffing at Tesla is tight and kept to a *minimum*. For example, much of the manufacturing equipment was bought second hand. (Should I actually explain this here?). In so far as I am aware, the Model X work, so far, was mostly done by the design group. And after most work on Model S was finished. They can't just be sent home for a few months.

I think many here don't quite realize the significance of a CEO saying, on stage, in public, that his company might not make it through the next months. CEOs usually do their best to avoid having to make such statements, even when that is the case.
 
My understanding is that at least to some it is a matter of supporting-the-best-electric-car-company.
Good for those people. I applaud them. But it's not everyone on the Sig list.

I don't quite understand your use of the word "tax" (which isn't exactly a popular term), given that jumping the line by making a signature reservation is completely optional.

I was echoing walla2's use of the word, and I agree with it. The English definition of "tax" allows for optional tax. Most all use taxes are optional, for example (paying for express lanes, etc)


(And IIRC the difference is either $3k+, or $5k+, not $10k.)

This prompted me to check, and I designed my same car as both, and the difference was $10,100 more for the Signature.
 
This prompted me to check, and I designed my same car as both, and the difference was $10,100 more for the Signature.

I think some of the difference may be with you choosing the 19" wheels since there is zero rebate in the Sig for moving down the the 19" wheels (so an extra $3,500 there at least). You're right though it is north of $5,000.
 
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I think some of the difference may with you choosing the 19" wheels since there is zero rebate in the Sig for moving down the the 19" wheels (so an extra $3,500 there at least). You're right though it is north of $5,000.

Are you sure you used all the options including premium color? It should be less than $6k for either performance or non-performance, and less than $4k for the other. Signature was very early described as a highly inclusive package.
 
Jkam and Walla, I hope you both realize we'll be expecting very detailed first drive reviews once you get or get to drive your cars freely :smile: and fully expect pictures with the Tesla grin! On this Thanksgiving day I think we are all thankful that you both are doing what you can to help Tesla get better at communicating and delivering cars so that we can all benefit.
 
Jkam and Walla, I hope you both realize we'll be expecting very detailed first drive reviews once you get or get to drive your cars freely :smile: and fully expect pictures with the Tesla grin! On this Thanksgiving day I think we are all thankful that you both are doing what you can to help Tesla get better at communicating and delivering cars so that we can all benefit.

+1
Happy Thanksgiving, and thank you to all the early adopters and especially all the 'reporters' and documentors out there, helping us later vagabonds to stay in-the-know.
Very best to you all...
 
Jkam and Walla, I hope you both realize we'll be expecting very detailed first drive reviews once you get or get to drive your cars freely :smile: and fully expect pictures with the Tesla grin! On this Thanksgiving day I think we are all thankful that you both are doing what you can to help Tesla get better at communicating and delivering cars so that we can all benefit.



Now that I have my temporary registration, I can actually enjoy the car. It is great driving it. Despite what led up to this, I'm very happy with the car.

Took a drive to see the sunrise with my son today, but the clouds and sun didn't cooperate.

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Jkam, congrats! I hope you love the car.

I'm cross-posting a post of mine from another thread. I know the frustration level can get high with Tesla, but as explained below I really don't think it's the employees' fault (at least the ones who deal with us directly), and think that some of the disagreements in this thread between "fans" and others aren't wide, but rather we can all agree that individual Tesla employees are by and large fantastic, but Tesla has collectively made some decisions that have led to the frustrations we are seeing here.

No doubt Tesla could have made more money with an auction, and frankly probably could have jacked up the price of the Sigs and gotten a few more bucks in the process. But this is, IMHO, classic "bean counter" short term thinking. It's easy to do this because the benefit is tangible ("We got an extra $7 million!"), whereas what's lost (customer goodwill, reputation etc.) is much harder to quantify, especially for a bean counter, but I think has a much longer lasting negative impact on a company, especially one like Tesla trying to establish itself.

For example, I have a good friend who canceled his Sig when the pricing came out, and eventually bought a Panamera instead. All over $7000. How many people would he have influenced had he gotten a Sig? He was more excited than I was about the car and Tesla before the pricing came out and would talk it up to everyone. How many people would AnOutsider, Jkam, Kroneal, myself (and many others) have proselytized to with so much greater enthusiasm had we not had less than ideal experiences in the past few months? Just read the thread about delivery concerns to get a flavor of love lost for Tesla these past few months. My strong belief is that the difference between charging extra for a Sig, as opposed to a slight discount (for what is a fully loaded car) would have made *all* the difference for us early adopters as our patience wore thin with communications issues, production delays, and cars being produced/delivered out of order.

Right now, with supply the issue and not demand, it doesn't matter much, but sooner or later, Tesla hopes to be selling 20,000 of these every year, plus thousands of Model X, and eventually tens of thousands of Gen III, and will need to dramatically increase demand. Early adopting Sig owners would be the best people, and in the best position, to help drive this demand.

Do I absolutely love the car? You bet. Do I still "sell" Tesla to people? Sure I do. But I also give warning about being a startup with "growing pains" and that you need patience to deal with buying a car from them because things are far from perfect. It's certainly not the sales job I used to do, and that's a direct result of the Sig pricing, because had I not been charged the Sig premium my patience would have been close to infinite with the issues the past few months. Multiply my experience times several dozen people (maybe more), and the ripple effect of all of those people, and my experience tells me that it will eventually cost Tesla many multiples more in sales (eventually) than $7 million.

When you are sitting in an executive board meeting, though, it's hard to argue against the bean counters because they have tangible money to show, whereas what I'm talking about here is much less concrete, impossible to prove, and a much longer term play. Seeing that Tesla was acting like a more typical company in this respect was deeply surprising and disappointing to me when it happened, and subsequent events have confirmed my original opinion.

This is why I never blamed any Tesla employees, ever, and am deeply appreciative of their efforts. They were put in a really difficult situation because they had to make up for executive-level (bad) decisions by trying to provide communications and explanations for situations not of their creation (Sig premium, production delays, lack of customer service hires etc.). Talk about a thankless task! It's like Andy Reid blaming the defensive coordinator or players for the team sucking instead of looking in the mirror (sorry for those who don't get that analogy), but I've seen that a lot where management makes a poor decision, and then expects the folks in the ground to fix it with customers.