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Model S Plaid Brakes Are Terrible!

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#401
MFrunkerOG said:
Took the plunge with the UP kit! fronts and rears!
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Did you get the street pads or the race pads? I got the street pads but I wonder if I will be ok with the race pads on the street. I always never use the brakes unless something weird happens or I am going to fast. I wonder if I should call them and have Unplugged switch my order. @Mash what do you think? I will probably track my car 1-3 times a year.

This guy suggested to get the race pads for the street:

 
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#402
juanmedina said:
Did you get the street pads or the race pads? I got the street pads but I wonder if I will be ok with the race pads on the street. I always never use the brakes unless something weird happens or I am going to fast. I wonder if I should call them and have Unplugged switch my order. @Mash what do you think? I will probably track my car 1-3 times a year.
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I’ve asked for street pads. I really have no current intention of putting my car on a track. I’m not trained for track driving and it would be irresponsible for me to do it.
 
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#403
juanmedina said:
Did you get the street pads or the race pads? I got the street pads but I wonder if I will be ok with the race pads on the street. I always never use the brakes unless something weird happens or I am going to fast. I wonder if I should call them and have Unplugged switch my order. @Mash what do you think? I will probably track my car 1-3 times a year.

This guy suggested to get the race pads for the street:

Click to expand...
I don't see disadvantage of track pads on Tesla. They work cold just fine, you don't use them much going slow and if you need to go fast, Plaid can easily heat them up to race temps. Somewhat more dust maybe? I would take race pads even with 0 track days planned.
 
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#404
Mash said:
I don't see disadvantage of track pads on Tesla. They work cold just fine, you don't use them much going slow and if you need to go fast, Plaid can easily heat them up to race temps. Somewhat more dust maybe? I would take race pads even with 0 track days planned.
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Agreed! Low speed squeal can be an issue at first but all the track pads I’ve tried get less noisy after a short settling in period.
The other obvious downside is that they’re a bit more expensive than street pads, but the additional stopping power and feel is totally worth it in my opinion.
 
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#405
FWIW -- I still have my RB XT910 street pads on with my RB drilled/slotted rotors (oem sizes) and everything is working great after several weeks now...no squeals, no more brake dust than oem, but the braking system is definitely improved now on my MS Plaid! It brakes with confidence now and I'm not sweating bullets when trying to slow the car down from higher speeds.

The only thing I've noticed is the "burning" smell still when I had to slam down on the brakes and engage the ABS, but perhaps that's only b/c I've only had to brake hard a couple times thus far since the new brakes were installed just before Thanksgiving a few weeks ago? 🤔 I would be fine if I never had to actually use the brakes on this EV but again, it's a necessary thing when trying to rapidly slow down from high speeds.
 
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#406
Mash said:
I don't see disadvantage of track pads on Tesla. They work cold just fine, you don't use them much going slow and if you need to go fast, Plaid can easily heat them up to race temps. Somewhat more dust maybe? I would take race pads even with 0 track days planned.
Click to expand...
Definitely not a good idea for street use... I never use my race pads unless I'm on the track. YMMV

 
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#407
FlatSix911 said:
Definitely not a good idea for street use... I never use my race pads unless I'm on the track. YMMV

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I'm talking about UP or RB pads. They both work fine on street Tesla. Got nothing to do with whatever other race pads you're talking about. And the reasons why those are ok are in the article you've linked + the fact that we have a regen braking...
 
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#408
Mash said:
I'm talking about UP or RB pads. They both work fine on street Tesla. Got nothing to do with whatever other race pads you're talking about. And the reasons why those are ok are in the article you've linked + the fact that we have a regen braking...
Click to expand...
Mash said:
I don't see disadvantage of track pads on Tesla. They work cold just fine, you don't use them much going slow and if you need to go fast, Plaid can easily heat them up to race temps. Somewhat more dust maybe? I would take race pads even with 0 track days planned.
Click to expand...
Your post said: "I don't see disadvantage of track pads on Tesla." I really don't want someone to crash or get injured due to bad advice.

Bottom line - don't use track pads on the Model S unless you want seriously compromised braking performance when not at race temps.

"The biggest scare of running racing brake pads on the street is that they will not stop the car when cold, because racing brake pads are designed to operate at much higher temperatures than street driving normally sees."
 
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#409
The mere label "track" or "race" isn't the key thing. It is whether they have stopping ability when cold, or not.

Apparently the RB track pads XT970 do in fact work perfectly fine when cold. At least that's what some have said here. And they happen to be labeled "track".

That the pads happened to be labeled "track" on the box or the website doesn't affect their cold performance which simply is what it is. So it may be perfectly fine to use some pads labeled as track on the street, but not some others.
 
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#410
bhzmark said:
The mere label "track" or "race" isn't the key thing. It is whether they have stopping ability when cold, or not.

Apparently the RB track pads XT970 do in fact work perfectly fine when cold. At least that's what some have said here. And they happen to be labeled "track".

That the pads happened to be labeled "track" on the box or the website doesn't affect their cold performance which simply is what it is. So it may be perfectly fine to use some pads labeled as track on the street, but not some others.
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Yes.

Most pad manufacturers have charts with a big range for their track/race pads.

We do not have any of this data for Racing Brake, or for Unplugged Pads.

The only thing we have for Racing Brake is reviews in various forums. From what I gather, there are some reviews XT970 that say it's similar to Carbotech XP8 or XP10 pad. For hard track use, and a car of this weight, he would likely want something with a higher temperatures range. These would likely still be streetable but have some noise.
 
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#411
Trompazo said:
Yes.

Most pad manufacturers have charts with a big range for their track/race pads.

We do not have any of this data for Racing Brake, or for Unplugged Pads.

The only thing we have for Racing Brake is reviews in various forums. From what I gather, there are some reviews XT970 that say it's similar to Carbotech XP8 or XP10 pad. For hard track use, and a car of this weight, he would likely want something with a higher temperatures range. These would likely still be streetable but have some noise.
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From my experience: I had both XT910 and XT970 on my Model 3, which I tracked several times over a couple of years. The XT970 did better on the track, and were also fine on the street (no loss of performance when cold and no noticeable noise after a few days of break-in period).
 
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#412
FlatSix911 said:
Your post said: "I don't see disadvantage of track pads on Tesla." I really don't want someone to crash or get injured due to bad advice.

Bottom line - don't use track pads on the Model S unless you want seriously compromised braking performance when not at race temps.

"The biggest scare of running racing brake pads on the street is that they will not stop the car when cold, because racing brake pads are designed to operate at much higher temperatures than street driving normally sees."
Click to expand...
I'm answering a specific question about specific pads. And those pads friction coefficient at cold is way higher than on stock pads when they hot. What you say is just meaningless and those links you bring up only support what I've said.

It's just a stupid mantra that track pads can't stop the car when it's cold. There is no magic ability to stop - braking torque would be proportional to friction coefficient and brake fluid pressure. Those "race" pads have cold coefficient higher than stock, so there is absolutely no chance they would work worse. And they aren't. I literally use both of them now every time and at cold winters they bite much more than model 3 stock pads.

Some race pads would be dusty and too noisy. Those that I refer are acceptable.
 
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#413
My feeling is that if you get an unplugged performance brake air cooling duct kit and replace just the front rotors with stock size 380 x 32 Ceramic coated Carbon fiber rotors and racing pads you will get over 30 pounds of weight savings and enough braking to cover most track use and all street requirements. Front brakes provide up to 90% of the braking so you won't see much improvement with changing the rears. If you really need less pedal flex (I doubt you do) instead of getting steel brake lines for the last 6 inches of the brake lines you can get a Master Brake Cylinder Brace from Mountain Pass Performance.
 
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#414
smoking81 said:
My feeling is that if you get an unplugged performance brake air cooling duct kit and replace just the front rotors with stock size 380 x 32 Ceramic coated Carbon fiber rotors and racing pads you will get over 30 pounds of weight savings and enough braking to cover most track use and all street requirements. Front brakes provide up to 90% of the braking so you won't see much improvement with changing the rears. If you really need less pedal flex (I doubt you do) instead of getting steel brake lines for the last 6 inches of the brake lines you can get a Master Brake Cylinder Brace from Mountain Pass Performance.
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Agree that the fronts are by far the most important, but disagree that 380mm Carbon rotors are an improvement. The weight savings is for handling, not braking.

Carbon actually disipates heat worse than iron. That is why Porsche always increases the size for their Carbon ceramic brakes over the standard iron brakes. On a GT3, the standard iron rotors are 380mm and the PCCB are 410mm. You need a larger carbon rotor than iron if you want to go carbon.

A 400mm iron rotor should be way better than a 380mm carbon rotor for braking (not handling).

You may not need less pedal flex, as its more feel, but on the stock pads the feel is crap. I have Racing Brake pads in a box that I plan to get installed soon to see how they affect feel and fade.
 
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#415
The reason I feel you can get away with the stock size for the front rotors is because of the addition of the UP brake air cooling kit. The main problem with the brakes is that with hard use the fronts are catching on fire. Carbon rotors and race pads will not catch on fire and last way longer. It sure would be great to get some real world feedback on stopping distance improvements for all the different mods. Part of my rational is cost savings and not making too much of a design change over stock. A switch to 400 mm rotor will require mods to the the dust shield and may need a bracket for different calipers. Let us know how much changing to the racing brake pads helped.
 
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#416
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#417
 
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