URBAN LEGEND
Doing it well
I just don’t have the confidence factor with these brakes. They will stop the car and they can be better. CCBS are the best brakes for the street I have ever had. Make it an option and charge for it. Easy fix.
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Model S Plaid Brakes Are Terrible!
- Thread starter theslimshadyist
- Start date
RB is looking to sponsor 3 track drives with the following qualification to test drive this Track Kit:
- Minimum 3 years track experience.
- Car must be a dedicated track car and is one of the listed American Muscle cars, plus GT-R and M5.
- Rebuilding calipers at least once.
- Receive 30-50% discount on purchase.
- 100% warranty against any performance issue at any tracking condition as fast as you can run your Plaid on tracks
- If your brake task is determined to be above what this iron kit can handle, the CCB kit will be replaced at cost difference (100% credit on iron kit purchase).
Following up on my previous comment, MPP has released more info on the brake issue they uncovered here about half way down:
www.mountainpassperformance.com
Remembrance, Looking Forward, And Plaid
Remembrance, Looking Forward, And Plaid. Join us as we unveil the MPP.R Tesla Model S Plaid! 1,000hp+, 4,800lbs, and it stops and turns too!
www.mountainpassperformance.com
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the link. I always appreciate when folks show their engineering efforts when generating components. I dropped them an email in hopes they would be doing simple two piece rotor replacement units for the Plaid's front rotors.Following up on my previous comment, MPP has released more info on the brake issue they uncovered here about half way down:
Remembrance, Looking Forward, And Plaid
Remembrance, Looking Forward, And Plaid. Join us as we unveil the MPP.R Tesla Model S Plaid! 1,000hp+, 4,800lbs, and it stops and turns too!
MFrunkerOG
Active Member
Giro disc said they’re making 400mm front rotors for MPP.
Great material on this topic, thank you. I just picked up my first Tesla, a Model S Plaid. Incredible piece of tech but was very suprised on how underwhelming the brakes were. Lots of fade... As many have previously said, does not inspire confidence.
I am researching upgrading the brakes, but have never done so on a tesla. I would normally install a brake kit (rotors, claipers, pads, SS lines etc) as well as the master cylinder and potentially the proportioning valve to balance it all. My concern with Tesla is the Autopilot. How integrated is the Autopilot into the braking system. For example, can I replace the front & rear calipers and the car can still stop on its own (I wish to continue using Autopilot).
I have read about e-actuators on the car but am too new to understand the level of integration with a Tesla.
Thank you in advance,
Pete
I am researching upgrading the brakes, but have never done so on a tesla. I would normally install a brake kit (rotors, claipers, pads, SS lines etc) as well as the master cylinder and potentially the proportioning valve to balance it all. My concern with Tesla is the Autopilot. How integrated is the Autopilot into the braking system. For example, can I replace the front & rear calipers and the car can still stop on its own (I wish to continue using Autopilot).
I have read about e-actuators on the car but am too new to understand the level of integration with a Tesla.
Thank you in advance,
Pete
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
lbowroom
Plaid, white on black, CF, 8/27/21, Track Pack
Yes, copper has been on the US government's list of compounds that must be removed from brake pads; this has lead to the company I work for (large axle manufacturer) to do a LOT of testing of other pad formulations especially for the higher mu (friction coefficient) friction materials.
Those prototype 400mm rotors (with the MPP adapters) are on our car @MPP as of yesterday! Will probably be a bit before they can test as we are waiting updates from Bosch/Tesla on the ABS failure. Might be too cold to test in Canada soon too, so we'll see how it goes.
Very interesting video. Thanks for sharing. Reinforces what others here have said, e.g., @sflgator @drdonger & @lolachampcar , but the facts in #1 and #2 paint a better picture of the Plaid brake street performance than I expected. Personal opinion is that with brakes the feel matters, which is probably why I expected the Plaid performance to be notably worse than the Taycan Turbo S. I know that when I'm moving at a good pace in the X, the butt puckers if I come up on an unexpected dead stop and have to lean on the brakes. Rarely if ever got that feeling in my M-sport 750iL, which may way as much as our X.
Hi Everyone,
I hope you're having a great Friday! I appreciate the kind words. I can assure you that our solution will be fully tested on the racetrack as all of our parts are. We don't design parts in isolation, we always fit the parts to the car and evaluate and optimize on the track. That's part of what we love doing the most and I think critically important.
The rotors are made by Girodisc - so that means USA-made with top quality materials and experience. These guys are some of the best in the business and we're super proud to be working with them!
We opted to go for the 400mm rather than 380mm because it will be very rare for anyone to use 19" wheels who are serious about performance, and for the tiny additional cost, it makes more sense to fit the largest rotor possible as we're talking about a 1000hp vehicle here! We'd also like to add additional thickness to the disc but need to be careful as the caliper wasn't designed for a wide rotor and some rubbing after thermal expansion could be possible if we push our luck too much.
Through our testing we've also discovered that the current calibration of the brakes has too much rear bias, so a larger front rotor will help with that. As you all know, the more grip you produce, the more forward weight transfer the vehicle experiences, and the more front bias is required to balance that out. So it's win-win to fit a larger front disc in regards to brake bias as well.
The rear rotors will be bolt-on. Here are a few pictures of the front rotors if you haven't seen the other thread.
These rotors paired with proper pads, lines, and fluid should really make a staggering difference to the braking feel and endurance - so let's not give up on the car over that!
It's also worth mentioning WHY upgrading rotors is so significant. I think many imagine the caliper as being the most important component of the braking system, but in fact, as long as you have sufficient pad area, it is the rotor that is the most important. The rotor is the single component that controls how much heat the system can remove.
If you look at the above picture you can see how much wider the air slot is than the original rotor, how open the inlet to the rotor vanes are compared to the shrouded OE rotor, and of course the main point - the fact that these rotors are directional and work as an air pump to flow a massive amount of air through the disc. The faster you go, the more airflow and the more cooling.
This is what ultimately allows the brake system to run cooler, and thus give you a more consistent pedal over more than one or two stops, and prevents pad fade. It also allows some to run a less aggressive pad, meaning one pad can work for street and track driving. Although in the case of the Plaid, I'm pretty confident high temp pads will still be required if you're hitting the track - sorry!
Using IR brake temperature sensors, we did a comparison of a few hard stops using OEM Model 3 brakes compared to a larger (365 instead of 320) rotor for the non-performance Model 3. You can see how much cooler the brakes ran with the upgraded rotors, and how much faster they cooled off:
I hope you're having a great Friday! I appreciate the kind words. I can assure you that our solution will be fully tested on the racetrack as all of our parts are. We don't design parts in isolation, we always fit the parts to the car and evaluate and optimize on the track. That's part of what we love doing the most and I think critically important.
The rotors are made by Girodisc - so that means USA-made with top quality materials and experience. These guys are some of the best in the business and we're super proud to be working with them!
We opted to go for the 400mm rather than 380mm because it will be very rare for anyone to use 19" wheels who are serious about performance, and for the tiny additional cost, it makes more sense to fit the largest rotor possible as we're talking about a 1000hp vehicle here! We'd also like to add additional thickness to the disc but need to be careful as the caliper wasn't designed for a wide rotor and some rubbing after thermal expansion could be possible if we push our luck too much.
Through our testing we've also discovered that the current calibration of the brakes has too much rear bias, so a larger front rotor will help with that. As you all know, the more grip you produce, the more forward weight transfer the vehicle experiences, and the more front bias is required to balance that out. So it's win-win to fit a larger front disc in regards to brake bias as well.
The rear rotors will be bolt-on. Here are a few pictures of the front rotors if you haven't seen the other thread.
These rotors paired with proper pads, lines, and fluid should really make a staggering difference to the braking feel and endurance - so let's not give up on the car over that!
It's also worth mentioning WHY upgrading rotors is so significant. I think many imagine the caliper as being the most important component of the braking system, but in fact, as long as you have sufficient pad area, it is the rotor that is the most important. The rotor is the single component that controls how much heat the system can remove.
If you look at the above picture you can see how much wider the air slot is than the original rotor, how open the inlet to the rotor vanes are compared to the shrouded OE rotor, and of course the main point - the fact that these rotors are directional and work as an air pump to flow a massive amount of air through the disc. The faster you go, the more airflow and the more cooling.
This is what ultimately allows the brake system to run cooler, and thus give you a more consistent pedal over more than one or two stops, and prevents pad fade. It also allows some to run a less aggressive pad, meaning one pad can work for street and track driving. Although in the case of the Plaid, I'm pretty confident high temp pads will still be required if you're hitting the track - sorry!
Using IR brake temperature sensors, we did a comparison of a few hard stops using OEM Model 3 brakes compared to a larger (365 instead of 320) rotor for the non-performance Model 3. You can see how much cooler the brakes ran with the upgraded rotors, and how much faster they cooled off:
.
MFrunkerOG
Active Member
How about you guys send us a set and we’ll test em! It’s warm in the ATL!
Oh and a few requirements @MountainPass
1. Do not change the effective offset. A lot of us have carefully gotten aftermarket wheels to go flush. Don’t want to impact that
2. Include some braided lines and a reservoir brace… want precise tight brakes, not spongy ones
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I just realized I'm on a personal account here posting - Chad and I (Andrew) started teamPGR and it's our car at MPP right now. Sasha and the team at MPP are doing the development and testing on the car for all the new goodies, including the brakes!
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