Model S Service Contracts - the poll edition(tm)!

[FalconNinetyD]

"...it's illegal for a dealer to deny your warranty coverage simply because you had routine maintenance or repairs performed by someone else."

Auto Warranties, Routine Maintenance, and Repairs: Is Using the Dealer a Must?

 

[ckessel]

"...it's illegal for a dealer to deny your warranty coverage simply because you had routine maintenance or repairs performed by someone else."

Auto Warranties, Routine Maintenance, and Repairs: Is Using the Dealer a Must?

Yep, though that's not what people are asking. Folks are asking if the warranty is voided if they don't get service at all, not if they get it elsewhere (though, of course, there isn't anywhere else to get the service other than Tesla at this point).

 

[rcc]

As a software engineer, I think the $600/year for new software features and remote monitoring is pretty reasonable.

No other car company in the world will deliver new features to your car a year after you've bought it. This is possible only because of Tesla's software architecture, touchsceen and digital dash.

The remote monitoring looks like ONSTAR or BMW Assist which I expect to pay some amount of money for.

I think Tesla needs to tell us the cost of the annual service or h/w maintenance w/o the software upgrades (critical bug fixes only, no new features). That would let us construct a true apples-to-apples comparison: maintenance + ONSTAR/BMW Assist or equivalent.

I also suspect that Tesla will give everyone the software updates for free but enable the new features only for the folks that are on a service plan. That's the only approach that will let them issue critical bug fixes to the field, give new features to the people that pay and avoid a software configuration testing nightmare.

 

[onlinespending]

No other car company in the world will deliver new features to your car a year after you've bought it. This is possible only because of Tesla's software architecture, touchsceen and digital dash.

That's not entirely true. Many car manufacturer's provide some degree of software upgrade (either by an updated NAV DVD and the software contained on it) or by USB (think Ford Sync). I will agree that Tesla seems committed to make more significant feature upgrades, where as most others would be minor tweaks.

 

[mnx]

Not sure if this is relevant to the discussion or not, but after 2 years and ~40,000km I'm nearly through a set of rear brake pads on my BMW 335d.... (I can thank the traction control for that. LOL The computer says the front pads are good for another 100,000km!)

 

[ElSupreme]

Are you sure about that? Typically, failing to maintain the vehicle according to the manufacturer's specs invalidates the warranty. I don't think you can completely skip oil changes in an ICE, for example, or you'll invalidate the warranty.

My dad has actually done this twice (since I have been alive and aware of such things). He NEVER changed the oil in a Toyota Avalon in about 35k miles, it all turned to mud. Then one day it all fell out (which may not have been his problem) the motor completely ruined itself in about 5 minutes. Got a refurbished engine out of warranty.

He bought a Subaru Outback recently and went in for his 5k, first, service. His car was at 28k miles. He had about 3 quarts of mud left over. Apparently Subaru flushed about 15 quarts of oil through his engine, and rebuilt everything above the valve cover gasket, all under warranty.

I don't think I would have near his luck.

If you sell new cars DO NOT sell to my dad!

- - - Updated - - -

Wow. I was charged nearly $100 for wipers on my BMW a couple months ago.

My wipers on my VW GTI are about 80 for the full set. 2 front and 1 rear. They run $28 per from the dealer, or about $22-$25 at a store, if you can find them.

 

[clmason]

IMO the big issue here is forcing the service plan to get the software updates. I am comparing this to other electronics products like the Iphone or Computers, they give you software updates free. Software updates for the Model S and future Tesla Cars should be free, customers will demand this, a precedent has already been set.

Now for the actual maintenance charges - have any of you reviewed Edmunds True Cost of Ownership calculator, here: True Cost to Own (TCO) Calculator on Edmunds.com

Let's look at Model S competitors per the Edmunds TCO Calc using the Maintenance line costs:
Audi A7
Year 1 $432
Year 2 $547
Year 3 $1,015
Year 4 $2,736
Total = $4,730 ($1,182 / year)

BMW 7 Series
Year 1 $0
Year 2 $0
Year 3 $0
Year 4 $4,100
Total = $4,100 ($1,025 / year)

Porsche Panamera
Year 1 $46
Year 2 $831
Year 3 $717
Year 4 $3,254
Total = $4,848 ($1,212 / year)

Average cost per year for these three cars is $1,139. Model S is $600 per year or nearly 50% less. I do not see a problem with their plan.

 

[Tempus]

just as one additional data point that i haven't seen mentioned. The service plan also includes 24 hour roadside assistance. I know i personally pay $100 a year to AAA for that currently. So if you factor that in, the 475 a year for the prepaid becomes much more reasonable looking.

 

[PRJIM]

IMO the big issue here is forcing the service plan to get the software updates. I am comparing this to other electronics products like the Iphone or Computers, they give you software updates free. Software updates for the Model S and future Tesla Cars should be free, customers will demand this, a precedent has already been set.

Now for the actual maintenance charges - have any of you reviewed Edmunds True Cost of Ownership calculator, here: True Cost to Own (TCO) Calculator on Edmunds.com

Let's look at Model S competitors per the Edmunds TCO Calc using the Maintenance line costs:
Audi A7
Year 1 $432
Year 2 $547
Year 3 $1,015
Year 4 $2,736
Total = $4,730 ($1,182 / year)

BMW 7 Series
Year 1 $0
Year 2 $0
Year 3 $0
Year 4 $4,100
Total = $4,100 ($1,025 / year)

Porsche Panamera
Year 1 $46
Year 2 $831
Year 3 $717
Year 4 $3,254
Total = $4,848 ($1,212 / year)

Average cost per year for these three cars is $1,139. Model S is $600 per year or nearly 50% less. I do not see a problem with their plan.

$600 is not the TCO for the Model it is just the price for maintenance at 12,500 mile or yearly intervals. There is a big difference between the numbers you quoted and the $600 figure.

 

[RDoc]

My real concern with all this is what else do they have up their sleeves? This plan sounds a lot like the junk warranty extensions places like Best Buy and many car dealers try to sell. They only cover the time the device/car is least likely to have problems. The problem isn't money. Most of us who can afford the car can afford the maintenance plan. The problem is very few people don't mind an obvious rip-off. I, for one, am beginning to suspect them of dealing in bad faith.

For example, what happens after 50K miles? Personally, for cars we like, we keep them for a long time. My concern is that Tesla will wait a couple of years till a bunch of cars are out there, then announce that to maintain the 8 year warranty on the battery, the service contract will be $1200 per year after 4 years or 50K miles, whichever comes first (wiper blades, brake pads and rotors excluded).

While it may be illegal for a manufacturer to deny warranty coverage if service isn't done by their dealers, realistically, there will be very few independent service providers for these cars. They certainly can deny coverage if the service isn't done, or is done incorrectly by an independent.

 

[FalconNinetyD]

If you sell new cars DO NOT sell to my dad!

I think you mean "don't buy a used car from my dad!"

 

[AnOutsider]

just as one additional data point that i haven't seen mentioned. The service plan also includes 24 hour roadside assistance. I know i personally pay $100 a year to AAA for that currently. So if you factor that in, the 475 a year for the prepaid becomes much more reasonable looking.

Audi offers that for free.

 

[T@oo]

Why are there no comments below the Tesla blog this time?

 

[onlinespending]

My wipers on my VW GTI are about 80 for the full set. 2 front and 1 rear. They run $28 per from the dealer, or about $22-$25 at a store, if you can find them.

A lot of times you can find the original OEM wiper blades for quite cheap online. I've bought some for a Lexus for $10 total for a pair of left and right wiper blades. This of course is just for the rubber insert, which can be easily swapped by yourself. I've typically bought OEM oil filters and my own synthetic oil and done the oil change myself (worst comes to worst you can pay a mechanic to do the labor for $20 tops). And changing spark plugs isn't exactly rocket science. Most of the routine maintenance on my ICEs have been pretty cheap. It's only when there's a more severe issue (blown head gasket, tranny failure, etc.) that you need to pay one big fee.

 

[Trnsl8r]

To be fair, I haven't seen anywhere them saying they would charge for software updates, and I don't think they will. It's in their best interest that everyone runs the latest version, so I expect them to let that be updated from home like you would a computer.

 

[clmason]

I excluded the lines from TCO that did not apply to maintenance. These are depreciation, interest on financing, taxes and fees, insurance premiums, fuel. They're not in my totals.

$600 is not the TCO for the Model it is just the price for maintenance at 12,500 mile or yearly intervals. There is a big difference between the numbers you quoted and the $600 figure.

 

[ElSupreme]

$600 is not the TCO for the Model it is just the price for maintenance at 12,500 mile or yearly intervals. There is a big difference between the numbers you quoted and the $600 figure.

Yeah those TCOs include probably $2k or more in tires, which the Model S will need also.

I think you mean "don't buy a used car from my dad!"

No he doesn't produce 'used cars' he produces car carcasses! :biggrin:

Why are there no comments below the Tesla blog this time?

They are moderating responses. I put a comment on there. I doubt much will fall there as to real criticism, just some general disappointment. It really should fall in their forums. I bet it is getting flooded with comments.

 

[onlinespending]

from the TM forums:

Before this was announced, I asked at my local store the exact question:

"If I don't pay for yearly maintenance, can I still get software updates over-the-air? And will my car still be monitored for problems? And will I void the warranty if I don't get the yearly maintenance?"

The salesperson at the store said you will get updates regardless, your car will still be monitored, and the warranty is only voided if the car notifies you of a problem and you don't get it promptly fixed.

It's not mandatory.

 

[mikevbf]

Wow, 15 pages and 141 now 142 posts since last night. How does anyone keep track of what has been covered? It would have to be ones full time job to post and make sure you hadn't repeated what someone else said unless they kept up all along. TMC can be daunting sometimes.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

They are moderating responses. I put a comment on there. I doubt much will fall there as to real criticism, just some general disappointment. It really should fall in their forums. I bet it is getting flooded with comments.

Yes, I posted a comment there as well and it's awaiting moderation. I did add two links to my comment: one to this thread and the other to the parallel poll thread regarding service plans.