Doug_G
Lead Moderator
So Tesla is going to send me a new Mobile Connector to see if that fixes things, and a Ranger will come by on the 24th.
Model S Technical / Mechanical Issues
- Thread starter DrComputer
- Start date
Eggplant
Member
Brought the car home last night! It had 35 miles left on it. Charged over night to standard level with no issues.
Drove it to work and back today. Had some trouble opening the charge port. After a few tries it opened, but the car won't charge. I get the "momentarily" message, then the mobile connector clicks and voltage drops to zero. Error. Cannot charge. All green lights on the mobile connector, but red ring on the car.
Service is pulling logs now.
I have enough charge left to get it to the SC tomorrow if need be. I hope it's just a bad mobile connector. I left it plugged into the wall at home all day. I tried unplugging it for a while, but no change.
UPDATE:
Service walked me through rebooting the console, and rebooting the car by pulling fuses in the frunk. No dice. After I hung up, I tried moving the UMC to a 110v outlet... and it worked. Moved it back to the 240v... and it worked. Odd. I'm scheduling a service appt.
Drove it to work and back today. Had some trouble opening the charge port. After a few tries it opened, but the car won't charge. I get the "momentarily" message, then the mobile connector clicks and voltage drops to zero. Error. Cannot charge. All green lights on the mobile connector, but red ring on the car.
Service is pulling logs now.
I have enough charge left to get it to the SC tomorrow if need be. I hope it's just a bad mobile connector. I left it plugged into the wall at home all day. I tried unplugging it for a while, but no change.
UPDATE:
Service walked me through rebooting the console, and rebooting the car by pulling fuses in the frunk. No dice. After I hung up, I tried moving the UMC to a 110v outlet... and it worked. Moved it back to the 240v... and it worked. Odd. I'm scheduling a service appt.
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OK, this is a new technical/mechanical issue which probably won't become a big deal for anyone for a few years, but after discussing it with service, they're contacting engineering. It is a design flaw in all Model S, and will presumably need to be addressed by a parts redesign.
One of the fans used in the cooling system is, well, I don't know the standard term, but it is asymmetrical or unbalanced. Now, normally you never make fans unbalanced, because they scratch the sides of their casing, squeal, and eventually self-destruct. However, apparently it is traditional to use these unbalanced fans in gasoline cars to make a more harmonious noise along with the engine noise (something completely irrelevant to the Model S). The problem of preventing the fans from self-destructing has mostly been solved in the gasoline cars, but it depends on the fan being belt-driven in order to stop the fan from freewheeling at low speeds.
At higher speeds, the fan spins as it is supposed to. In the model S, however, once the car turns off, the fan spins down and freewheels slowly, and as it spins down, because it's unbalanced, it starts squealing as it scratches the sides of its case. It will eventually self-destruct.
This is the source of a really obnoxious squeal from any model S which is sitting still, parked, after having had the air conditioner running full blast for a while. The fan does not turn on until the cooling system has been running at a fairly high notch, so it won't be operating at all until then.
I presume that, having been notified of this, Tesla engineering will eventually replace this fan with a more appropriate balanced fan. But anyway, this is a heads up on one of the few hardware design defects I've found. (As with most such defects, it is a result of adopting something used in gasoline cars -- showing that Tesla was right to build as much as possible from the ground up.)
---
For reference, this fan is in the lower left front of the car, and it is apparently the *auxilliary* fan for the cooling system. It doesn't turn on until the cooling system is at a very high notch. The squeal, of course, is only present after the cooling system then turns *off*. I and the service tech ended up reproducing the issue by running the A/C on LO with the doors open until the compressor went up to the top notch, and then closing the door and turning the car off.
We figured out that this defect was present on all cars when we were also able to reproduce it on the loaner he'd brought. :-(
One of the fans used in the cooling system is, well, I don't know the standard term, but it is asymmetrical or unbalanced. Now, normally you never make fans unbalanced, because they scratch the sides of their casing, squeal, and eventually self-destruct. However, apparently it is traditional to use these unbalanced fans in gasoline cars to make a more harmonious noise along with the engine noise (something completely irrelevant to the Model S). The problem of preventing the fans from self-destructing has mostly been solved in the gasoline cars, but it depends on the fan being belt-driven in order to stop the fan from freewheeling at low speeds.
At higher speeds, the fan spins as it is supposed to. In the model S, however, once the car turns off, the fan spins down and freewheels slowly, and as it spins down, because it's unbalanced, it starts squealing as it scratches the sides of its case. It will eventually self-destruct.
This is the source of a really obnoxious squeal from any model S which is sitting still, parked, after having had the air conditioner running full blast for a while. The fan does not turn on until the cooling system has been running at a fairly high notch, so it won't be operating at all until then.
I presume that, having been notified of this, Tesla engineering will eventually replace this fan with a more appropriate balanced fan. But anyway, this is a heads up on one of the few hardware design defects I've found. (As with most such defects, it is a result of adopting something used in gasoline cars -- showing that Tesla was right to build as much as possible from the ground up.)
---
For reference, this fan is in the lower left front of the car, and it is apparently the *auxilliary* fan for the cooling system. It doesn't turn on until the cooling system is at a very high notch. The squeal, of course, is only present after the cooling system then turns *off*. I and the service tech ended up reproducing the issue by running the A/C on LO with the doors open until the compressor went up to the top notch, and then closing the door and turning the car off.
We figured out that this defect was present on all cars when we were also able to reproduce it on the loaner he'd brought. :-(
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NigelM
Recovering Member
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
This seems odd. I haven't seen a modern car with a belt driven fan, and I can't imagine purposely building an unbalanced fan to make a better noise in a noisy ICE. Who came up with this theory?
I have to say, I think I have heard this. Actually, I think I recorded the sound. Though I dont think the car has to be "off" for the sound to present itself.
Here's my use case and how I think I discovered the same sound: Its hot here in PHX. I pre-cool my car as I leave the office. It might be a good 5-7 min before I reach my car after starting pre-cooling as I step from my desk. Of course, the AC runs at full bore when I start the pre-cooling (along with the loud compressor sound). By the time I reach my car, the car has cooled somewhat and the fans no longer need to run at full bore. Its now just maintaining. As I approach my car, I hear a squeaking sound like an old fan that needs oil or something. So the AC is still running just at a much lower rate.
I recorded it with my iPhone. I figured whenever I need to take the car in for service, I'd play it for them if I couldn't reproduce it on the spot.
Here's my use case and how I think I discovered the same sound: Its hot here in PHX. I pre-cool my car as I leave the office. It might be a good 5-7 min before I reach my car after starting pre-cooling as I step from my desk. Of course, the AC runs at full bore when I start the pre-cooling (along with the loud compressor sound). By the time I reach my car, the car has cooled somewhat and the fans no longer need to run at full bore. Its now just maintaining. As I approach my car, I hear a squeaking sound like an old fan that needs oil or something. So the AC is still running just at a much lower rate.
I recorded it with my iPhone. I figured whenever I need to take the car in for service, I'd play it for them if I couldn't reproduce it on the spot.
I find it difficult to believe that Tesla would design a fan that was unbalanced and that would wobble inside of its housing, rubbing the sides. This is something that would be impossible not to know during the design and testing process. Perhaps the tech is confused about the purpose behind designing asymmetric fan blades. Apple uses asymmetric fan blades on its latest generation laptops so as to cause an intentional and random variability in the noise the fan produces. This reduces the perception of fan noise because the noise is constantly varying between different frequencies, reducing our ability to "tune in" to the noise. An asymmetric fan blade design does not mean that the fan is unbalanced and will wobble, it simply means that the fan blades are not all of uniform shape and direction.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
fluxemag
Member
Mine squeaks too when the car is turning off. I don't really care, but I'd be happy if it weren't that way. I pre-cool my car for about 15min before I head down from the office. It's not until the car starts moving that the loud compressor sound is heard. I wonder why that is...
Doug_G
Lead Moderator
I seem to have some nasty corrosion on the support that goes across the front of the Frunk. The damage was obviously caused by salt over the winter. People in northern climes might want to check for this.
efusco
Moderator - Model S & X forums
That looks seriously bad! Where else might there be corrosion of that degree going on that we can't see or haven't found yet... Surprised there's unpainted metal there, that seems like a risk factor for corrosion.
Doug_G
Lead Moderator
I see no evidence of trouble anywhere else. This could be a defective piece - bad coatings or something. We'll see...
I have a 60 kWh MS with v4.4 that charged to 190 miles on a standard charge. I noticed that a couple of times that charging had stopped at 150 miles. Dark blue instead of steady green light at charge port, green light on UMC. After a 4 day stay at the service center, all they could guess at is loose pins in the charge port. Charge port was replaced, I was given a new UMC (just in case), v4.5 (.59) loaded by SC.
2 days at home and it happened again. Charging stopped at 170 miles (set at 90%) yesterday and 157 miles today. NO light at the charge port, green light on UMC this morning. Saw the dreaded "12V battery power low" "car needs service" messages. Drove for about 5 miles. Car alarm went off when I got back in and restarted the car. Drove to SC. Apparently they have no records of 12V message in the logs. Texted them picture I took. Nothing wrong identified. Given yet another UMC that doesn't like my outlet (red light). Sat in the car while it charged uneventfully to 184 miles (90%) with the other UMC. SC thinks there is something wrong with my outlet or power surge that is causing the car to stop charging to protect itself. I charge at 2 AM, no AC on last night but will have electrician check it out.
2 days at home and it happened again. Charging stopped at 170 miles (set at 90%) yesterday and 157 miles today. NO light at the charge port, green light on UMC this morning. Saw the dreaded "12V battery power low" "car needs service" messages. Drove for about 5 miles. Car alarm went off when I got back in and restarted the car. Drove to SC. Apparently they have no records of 12V message in the logs. Texted them picture I took. Nothing wrong identified. Given yet another UMC that doesn't like my outlet (red light). Sat in the car while it charged uneventfully to 184 miles (90%) with the other UMC. SC thinks there is something wrong with my outlet or power surge that is causing the car to stop charging to protect itself. I charge at 2 AM, no AC on last night but will have electrician check it out.
steve841
Active Member
Lloyd
Well-Known Member
It looks like aluminum became the sacraficial metal where it attaches to the steel bumper assembly.
Boats use Zinc plates to help with corrosion is the salt environment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
Boats use Zinc plates to help with corrosion is the salt environment.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion
mknox
Well-Known Member
Yikes! This was a huge concern of mine... something I raised with both Tesla before purchase and here on the forums. I was constantly assured that "aluminum doesn't rust", but I know from experience that it corrodes into a white powder. I had a car once with a chrome plated aluminum bumper, and it ended up looking like leftovers wrapped in tin foil when the aluminum went to powder inside.
If I'm looking at this photo correctly, that piece isn't even in a particularly "exposed" area. What about aluminum suspension components or the battery compartment?
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