Model S to the Nürburgring Next Week!

[rpo]

Both Tesla and Porsche are using/used prototype models with no disclosure of what modifications were made. The Porsche press release does not state anything about which trim was used. If it was the non-turbo S model, don't you think they would have advertised that?

My guess, based on their usage of a prototype (as their YouTube video discloses), is that there is no differentiation for the varying trim levels at the prototype stage and they simply test the most powerful version to make sure it can handle the power.

 

[ICUDoc]

The only negative to this type of competition is these forums turn into a complete sh*t show.

Yep- a real turn-off.

 

[TIppy]

I could be that the constant use of 750 hp out of the corners was leading to some thermal limiting. They had to drop down to the turbo power levels but didn't want to admit it. Or maybe the 750 hp is only briefly available during launch mode, so on the track there would be no difference. Pure speculation.

 

[bhzmark]

You have just proved my point. It's standard feature NOT an extra cost option. Those posters were talking about P85D+ or P85D with "+" option which has never existed.

I don't think the issue was whether it was a separate option or not. Of course it wasn't. You either got the P85D or the 85D.

I thought the issue was whether the pre April 2015 Performance P85D included the same optional plus suspension package that was previously available as a separate option on the P85 RWD, or not.

I suspect it wasn't exactly the same parts, as they added a front DU , but I understood it at the time I was pondering my P85D purchase that it was essentially the same as the plus package, except perhaps even better. But I can't find any post that describes the parts used the P85+ suspension compared to the parts in the early P85D suspension (now referred to as "P85D+" to distinguish from the non-plus P85D suspensions that were the same across the Model S).

 

[hydro 481]

Now the Car magazines are starting to try to move the goal posts. Claiming that the 7:42 run was only a base model Taycan Turbo... NOT a Turbo S. journalism really isnt what it used to be. Takes about 2 seconds to goto Porsches website and see Yellow brake callipers mean Turbo S.

Car & Driver : Porsche Might Be Sitting on a Faster Taycan Nürburgring Lap Time

Turbo

Turbo S

Nurb Car

Makes no sense for them to use a base Taycan to set a record. And a base Taycan is likely slower than a P3D so I don't even think that would be possible.

 

[TIppy]

Makes no sense for them to use a base Taycan to set a record. And a base Taycan is likely slower than a P3D so I don't even think that would be possible.

Taycon Turbo vs Turbo S, not a base Taycon.

 

[FreqFlyer]

Makes no sense for them to use a base Taycan to set a record. And a base Taycan is likely slower than a P3D so I don't even think that would be possible.

My guess, a GTS variant, just like the 911 GTS variant, lighten everything and the motor turned up a wick. One thing Tesla did do, is give Porsche a time to meet or beat.

 

[larmor]

My guess, a GTS variant, just like the 911 GTS variant, lighten everything and the motor turned up a wick. One thing Tesla did do, is give Porsche a time to meet or beat.

There is a host of other cars, include porsches whose times are faster, and since porsche has extensive race background, they would know this all ready.

 

[TIppy]

One thing Tesla did do, is give Porsche a time to meet or beat

Not yet. That was just a test run with other traffic on the track.

 

[CarlK]

I don't think the issue was whether it was a separate option or not. Of course it wasn't. You either got the P85D or the 85D.

I thought the issue was whether the pre April 2015 Performance P85D included the same optional plus suspension package that was previously available as a separate option on the P85 RWD, or not.

I suspect it wasn't exactly the same parts, as they added a front DU , but I understood it at the time I was pondering my P85D purchase that it was essentially the same as the plus package, except perhaps even better. But I can't find any post that describes the parts used the P85+ suspension compared to the parts in the early P85D suspension (now referred to as "P85D+" to distinguish from the non-plus P85D suspensions that were the same across the Model S).

It could be but then again it could be not. There were speculations but never words from Tesla. That's what my original posts #562. #575 alluded to, that there were neither P85D+ nor "+" option for P85D. I too was think about P85D at that time, only 6 months after I bought the P85+. I don't think I would have missed any details. It seems that are quite a few confused people relying on hearsay and even gave me disagrees when facts were given.

 

[hydro 481]

Taycon Turbo vs Turbo S, not a base Taycon.

Gotcha. That makes more sense.

 

[Wratran]

Both Tesla and Porsche are using/used prototype models with no disclosure of what modifications were made. The Porsche press release does not state anything about which trim was used. If it was the non-turbo S model, don't you think they would have advertised that?

My guess, based on their usage of a prototype (as their YouTube video discloses), is that there is no differentiation for the varying trim levels at the prototype stage and they simply test the most powerful version to make sure it can handle the power.

This is so TRUE...
why does everyone keep saying the Taycan was stock?...it is NOT STOCK...Porsche hasn't sold a single Taycan. There is no Taycan in stock any where in the world. It is a prototype. NO ONE knows what the production Taycan might be.

There are thousands of Model S in existence. This car come closer to being stock than the Taycan.
Tesla is testing their new Model S prototype (PLAID?..maybe)....just like the prototype Taycan.

So this run at the RING is all about engineering the best handling, fastest and quickest EV. We wont know if either one of these car will be a production model at the end.

 

[nativewolf]

@Wratran So true and to boot why do people assume Porsche is a good actor that won't cheat their ass off? Least we forget they are part of a massive collusion to completely game and cheat all of the world into believing that diesel was a "clean" fuel. Why because they spent Billions and Billions of Euros on diesel fuel engines and related technology and because they perceived a differentiator from the super efficient Japanese Gas vehicles. It was all based on lies and complete contempt for societies obvious goal of achieving clean environments. Do people think that a company that will blatantly lie to regulators, that will risk seeing valuation cut in half in order to hide this cheating will not seek any advantage on a race course where there are no penalties, no laws, no regs, and no inspections? Wake up and smell the coffee. Porsche is part of the dirties car manufacturer in the world, by that I mean ethically soulless.

 

[ICUDoc]

There are thousands of Model S in existence. This car come closer to being stock than the Taycan.
Tesla is testing their new Model S prototype (PLAID?..maybe)....just like the prototype Taycan.

Whilst I agree that in the absence of a Taycan bought from a dealer there can technically be NO "production Taycan" right now, I think it is pretty clear that the Model S is VERY different from what you can buy from Tesla today ie NOT "closer to stock than the Taycan".
I am very keen to hear from both manufacturers EXACTLY what they have run / tested so we can enjoy learning.

 

[PhantomX]

Also, this isn't the first time Porsche or other OEM work to set Ring records. Ring records are very carefully reviewed and analyzed, to make sure they are stock setup. By stock, it means the car is in condition that any of us can get from the showroom, without any addition to it. Like I mentioned before, the only thing that people usually don't complain about is the roll cage and racing harness, but outside of that, any changes invalidate the time. Take a look at the time set by Honda Civic Type R, Porsche 911 GT3, Porsche Cayenne, BMW M4 GTS, and others. They are all cars in conditions that you would get from the showroom floor. Any changes to tires, brake, suspensions, and etc. invalidate the time setup on the Ring. I would be very very surprise if a Taycan Turbo S delivered to customers at end of this would not be able to set the 7:42 time if it's driven by Lars or driver of similar experience at the Ring. I would hope the production version of Plaid Model S will be able to replicate these Ring time without any modifications. Otherwise those times really are not valid (still impressive, just not valid in typical Ring time sense).

 

[TIppy]

From what I've read, these are unverified records. There is no sanctioning body that inspects these cars to make sure they are stock.

Elon quipped that these times are a good start, but the production cars would be faster.

 

[PhantomX]

Here are some good videos of Nurburgring time runs by SportAuto magazine. As noted, these are stock cars with tires from the factory:

FYI, the stereo delete in the Porsche video is an option from Porsche. And no, they don't charge you money to remove them (well, not typically)

This is how Ring times are tested. Stock car with options and tires that can be purchased directly from manufacturers as part of new car delivery (not aftermarket). Hopefully the Model S that sets these time will adhere to that standard.

 

[TIppy]

Here are some good videos of Nurburgring time runs by SportAuto magazine. As noted, these are stock cars with tires from the factory:

FYI, the stereo delete in the Porsche video is an option from Porsche. And no, they don't charge you money to remove them (well, not typically)

This is how Ring times are tested. Stock car with options and tires that can be purchased directly from manufacturers as part of new car delivery (not aftermarket). Hopefully the Model S that sets these time will adhere to that standard.

Who verifies that the engine setups, pads, fluids, suspension, weight, etc are all stock?

 

[PhantomX]

Who verifies that the engine setups, pads, fluids, suspension, weight, etc are all stock?

I guess you'll have to trust the magazine that's running these times. Similar to how we just need to trust the time set by Randy Pobst when he does laps for Motor Trend (those are stock cars as well).

 

[TIppy]

I guess you'll have to trust the magazine that's running these times. Similar to how we just need to trust the time set by Randy Pobst when he does laps for Motor Trend (those are stock cars as well).

That's what I said. They are unverified. Ripe for mischief.