Model S to the Nürburgring Next Week!

[larmor]

Whether its production or not, toycan or model s raven/plaid/whatever, nice to have halo cars competing on the track, but even the prototypes have vastly different EV range. So great, i will take one toycan with its range of 255 miles to go to costco, run a few errands, make sure the seat heater is on when it gets cold, and oh yeah have to keep an eye on that range gauge, because of ohms law the porsche will still be subject to real world range anxiety. As we know, and the media will remind us, 255 miles range is always more than 345 miles range...

 

[PhantomX]

I think in order for true comparison, we need to understand how closely representative the Model S and Taycan are to stock cars. If Model S that's hitting these times are truly stripped and use non-stock equipment that'll never be available for general public, then it should be fair for Porsche to have a stripped and heavily modified Taycan on the Ring if they so desired. One thing to note is tires do make a big difference. Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio saw a 12 seconds delta between racing tires and OEM tires. If Taycan was wearing Pilot Sports 4 and Telsa is wearing Cup2R or F1 Supercar, then that's probably 10+ seconds there. Still very impressive time, but it's not really apple to apple comparison.

 

[larmor]

They have been working on the plaid powertrain longer than that. This is certainly an extension of the work they have done for the Roadster.

Yes i hope so, and i stand corrected. But certainly tesla does not have decades of chasis tuning and race history to draw on.

 

[bhzmark]

What is incorrect? The original P85D was speculated to have the the same suspension as P85+, that's why there's no "+" option for it, although there were never an official confirmation. The point is still there's never P85D+ or "+' option for P85D as some hsvr claimed.

time capsule:

P85D "specially designed performance suspension"

P85D Ride too Harsh?

 

[nativewolf]

Welp, color me impressed.

Today you can buy a car initially launched by Tesla in 2012 with more range, faster acceleration, higher top speed, greater passenger space, and greater cargo space than the finest work of the world’s largest automaker. For $50,000 less.

In a year you’ll be able to have all of that plus better track times. Unreal.

The notion of the Germans just showing up when they decide to put the smack down on the California upstart to demonstrate how things are done is getting kind of comical at this point.

Tesla is an interior refresh away from having the best large sedan on the market in all metrics across all propulsion methods.

Indeed. Mind boggling.

This entire post is goalpost moving.

To be perfectly frank, I agree with all of it. I'm a Model S owner and have zero interest in the Taycan for all of the reasons you describe.

That said, the discussion has been about the track capabilities of the current production Model S on the Nurburgring, as compared to the production-intent Taycan. I've maintained that this is a silly comparison and the Taycan will easily outperform the current S based on a single variable - brakes. There was a fair amount of delusion in this thread on that topic.

Fair enough. Interesting times for sure. I am a wannabe Tesla Truck owner but sadly have to own truck as a daily driver. I hope and pray that the truck can tow a meaningful load. If so we'll buy 3 for the company. Until then my brothers have Teslas and I am stuck with a truck.

 

[CarlK]

time capsule:

P85D "specially designed performance suspension"

P85D Ride too Harsh?

View attachment 455922

You have just proved my point. It's standard feature NOT an extra cost option. Those posters were talking about P85D+ or P85D with "+" option which has never existed.

 

[204EV]

Now the Car magazines are starting to try to move the goal posts. Claiming that the 7:42 run was only a base model Taycan Turbo... NOT a Turbo S. journalism really isnt what it used to be. Takes about 2 seconds to goto Porsches website and see Yellow brake callipers mean Turbo S.

Car & Driver : Porsche Might Be Sitting on a Faster Taycan Nürburgring Lap Time

Turbo

Turbo S

Nurb Car

 

[gigawatt1010]

Kudos to Tesla for taking the time to make a record-breaking Model S. However, until the company formally sells a Model S with the Plaid prototype’s powertrain and ultra-sticky rubber, then it simply appears to us that Elon Musk and Tesla are playing checkers while Oliver Blume and Porsche are playing chess. At least when it comes to lapping the Nürburgring.

I think the entire car industry is having a hard time admitting that Tesla makes awesome EVs that can throw a smackdown when called upon. Everything else is just splitting hairs.

 

[gigawatt1010]

Just as a follow up - I know it's been talked about before, but really Porsche? - "Turbo"?!

I grew up in the 80's in my bedroom that is plastered with Car Posters of predominantly 911's. Been a Porsche fan for years. For such a big, respected company - why on earth would you tag the words Turbo in your first EV?!

Do you think people are stupid and do not know that for a turbo to work, you need exhaust gases, which is the primary selling point of an EV is not having any exhaust?! I don't have a Marketing Degree, but even I know better not to market an EV with the words Turbo! LOL

I would love to be a fly on the wall in that boardroom when it was proposed to the powers that be that the Toycan will have a "Turbo" designation.

 

[acoste]

Just as a follow up - I know it's been talked about before, but really Porsche? - "Turbo"?!

I grew up in the 80's in my bedroom that is plastered with Car Posters of predominantly 911's. Been a Porsche fan for years. For such a big, respected company - why on earth would you tag the words Turbo in your first EV?!

Do you think people are stupid and do not know that for a turbo to work, you need exhaust gases, which is the primary selling point of an EV is not having any exhaust?! I don't have a Marketing Degree, but even I know better not to market an EV with the words Turbo! LOL

I would love to be a fly on the wall in that boardroom when it was proposed to the powers that be that the Toycan will have a "Turbo" designation.

What about supercharger?

 

[Destiny1701]

What is incorrect? The original P85D was speculated to have the the same suspension as P85+, that's why there's no "+" option for it, although there were never an official confirmation. The point is still there's never P85D+ or "+' option for P85D as some hsvr claimed.

It’s not speculation at all! Factually there were P85D’s sold with a performance plus suspension before it was discontinued. It wasn’t an ‘option’, it was just included as a standard suspension for those vins of P85D.

Ok I see your point that it was never an ‘option’. But they have the + suspension on those models as standard.

 

[Zextraterrestrial]

Just as a follow up - I know it's been talked about before, but really Porsche? - "Turbo"?....

I have a harder time seeing the analog clock above the dash. I cannot understand why, it hurts!!!!!!
do those bother anyone else as much? all of the expensive luxury cars with these.... ewwwww
go back to the 80's

 

[gigawatt1010]

What about supercharger?

What about it? At least Tesla is not calling any of it's cars "supercharged" LOL

 

[TIppy]

What about supercharger?

It's a cutesy play on words. A super fast charger, supercharger. It has everything to do with evs, as opposed to turbos.

 

[seattlite2004]

Just as a follow up - I know it's been talked about before, but really Porsche? - "Turbo"?!

I grew up in the 80's in my bedroom that is plastered with Car Posters of predominantly 911's. Been a Porsche fan for years. For such a big, respected company - why on earth would you tag the words Turbo in your first EV?!

Do you think people are stupid and do not know that for a turbo to work, you need exhaust gases, which is the primary selling point of an EV is not having any exhaust?! I don't have a Marketing Degree, but even I know better not to market an EV with the words Turbo! LOL

I would love to be a fly on the wall in that boardroom when it was proposed to the powers that be that the Toycan will have a "Turbo" designation.

Intel uses Turbo: Intel® Turbo Boost Technology 2.0

 

[manitou820]

Now the Car magazines are starting to try to move the goal posts. Claiming that the 7:42 run was only a base model Taycan Turbo... NOT a Turbo S. journalism really isnt what it used to be. Takes about 2 seconds to goto Porsches website and see Yellow brake callipers mean Turbo S.

Car & Driver : Porsche Might Be Sitting on a Faster Taycan Nürburgring Lap Time
Turbo Turbo S
Nurb Car

Yellow calipers are for the carbon ceramic brakes. They are optional on the Taycan Turbo and standard on the Turbo S. The pre-production car could have been a Turbo model.

Do your own research first before calling out journalists.

I'm a huge Tesla and Porsche fan and have owned both over the years. I'm thrilled to see them fighting it out on the Nurburgring. It can only result in better products for us and helping to promote EV's.

The only negative to this type of competition is these forums turn into a complete sh*t show. So much mis-information all around it's not even funny. Same goes for the Porsche forums I frequent.

 

[SD_Engnr]

This is awesome. Looking forward to an "official announcement" of the times achieved. Whether it's production-like, or not, I love that they have at least two cars there for testing (1 blue, 1 red), and I really like the aggressive fenders, rear wing, and those wheels/tires. I also find it comical that the remnants of the California HOV stickers are still on the rear bumper...

 

[TIppy]

Yellow calipers are for the carbon ceramic brakes. They are optional on the Taycan Turbo and standard on the Turbo S. The pre-production car could have been a Turbo model.

Do your own research first before calling out journalists.

I'm a huge Tesla and Porsche fan and have owned both over the years. I'm thrilled to see them fighting it out on the Nurburgring. It can only result in better products for us and helping to promote EV's.

The only negative to this type of competition is these forums turn into a complete sh*t show. So much mis-information all around it's not even funny. Same goes for the Porsche forums I frequent.

It's a base model turbo optioned up to a turbo s.

 

[204EV]

Yellow calipers are for the carbon ceramic brakes. They are optional on the Taycan Turbo and standard on the Turbo S. The pre-production car could have been a Turbo model.

Do your own research first before calling out journalists.

I'm a huge Tesla and Porsche fan and have owned both over the years. I'm thrilled to see them fighting it out on the Nurburgring. It can only result in better products for us and helping to promote EV's.

The only negative to this type of competition is these forums turn into a complete sh*t show. So much mis-information all around it's not even funny. Same goes for the Porsche forums I frequent.

That's really semantics, as while possible it would be weird. Other than the extra "boost" with launch controls the cars are exactly the same in all specs. So with that in mind, I guess it COULD have been a Turbo but will say that would be a stretch.

If it is I look forward to the Turbo S results.

 

[Uncle Paul]

For events like these, it is useless to glean the responses from the reporters as to just what was run in those cars.

Only the official announcements from the Manufacturer is reliable. Sometimes they have also misrepresented the accomplishments on the track. Racers will tell you..."if you ain't lyin', you ain't tryin'

Lately the German manufacturers have shown that they will gimmick their electronics to game emissions and fuel economy controls. Imaging it would be hard for them to resist tampering with factory specs for track events. Easy to turn up the juice, crank the fans a little harder, stiffen up the shocks or defeat battery protection protocols.

I believe that neither the Porsche or Tesla were off the line, unmollested production cars. That is not what manufacturer take to the tracks for these media events.

My take away is that EV producers will take ICE track records in their sights to gain marketing advantage at they begin to chip away at the precieved ICE advantages.