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ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
I've probably supercharged 80% to 85% of the time - Just exported an excel of my charging history and I have over 900 rows of entries.
My mx p90d is at 165 miles at 80%. Everytime I ask them to look at it before the warranty expires they say every is fine
ElectricIAC
Good-Natured Rascal
What is your claim? The warranty you received doesn't cover degradation. It only covers failures. Does your car still charge and drive? Then the battery is fine as far as the warranty goes.
Even under the current degradation warranty that wouldn't be covered. It's about 82% of original. I get that it sucks, but likely they won't do anything.
Just confirming: you do charge to more than 80% from time to time, right? This isn't just an out-of-balance pack?
Just confirming: you do charge to more than 80% from time to time, right? This isn't just an out-of-balance pack?
Every few months I try to charge to 100. It's 204 at 100. Sometimes I'll set it 100 and it will stop charging at 95
Is there any threshold (older warranty policy) where individuals have been successful with getting a replacement due to degradation vs. overall failure? Example nearing or falling below 50% of the original battery. I've got a little over two years left on my eight year warranty, so I'm guessing I won't actually trigger it... Just curious
Incorrect. It does not only cover failures. It covers "repair or replacement of any malfunctioning or defective batteries."
Source - original Tesla warranty for Model S & X (hidden from their website but available here):
Vehicle Warranty
Your Tesla vehicle is protected by a New Vehicle Limited Warranty and Battery and Drive Unit Limited Warranty. These warranties cover the repair or replacement necessary to correct defects in the materials or workmanship of any parts manufactured or supplied by Tesla that occur under normal use...
web.archive.org
So not only defective batteries, but malfunctioning batteries as well.
The definition of malfunction is:
mal·func·tion (măl-fŭngk′shən) intr.v. mal·func·tioned, mal·func·tion·ing, mal·func·tions
To fail to function properly.
not performing or able to perform its regular function;
Source - dictionary: malfunctioning
You can read more about the legal definition of malfunction here:
Malfunction Definition: 1k Samples | Law Insider
Sample Contracts and Business Agreements
www.lawinsider.com
If its regular function is to operate in a certain way, and it's not performing its regular function in that way, it is by definition malfunctioning.
It wouldn't be difficult for any first year lawyer to explain the standards for burden of proof, it's a defined legal standard.
I'm almost certain this is why Tesla's legal team removed the verbiage "malfunctioning" from their website and added the 70% degradation clause later, as it's much more open to interpretation as to whether a claim is valid without the specific percentage clause they wisely added later.
Tesla would likely lose a class action lawsuit under the old legal verbiage. Candidly I am surprised this hasn't happened already.
But a battery that has degraded (which is every single one ever made), and still charges and powers the car to drive, has neither malfunctioned or is defective. It is operating as designed.
And that source isn't actually the legal warranty document. The actual document has actual verbiage about not covering degradation.
henderrj
Active Member
Maybe being a little stubborn here? If a company makes statements publicly available, they are responsible for them. Also, they always push that you'd be able to travel long distances in the model s. If you can't make it even from supercharger to the supercharger, you can't do that, hence the vehicle is no longer able to perform the functions for which it was designed.
I used to back Tesla every chance I got, anymore, sadly I think I've switched to the other side! So I cannot claim to be an unbiased observer.
I think you're following a reasonable line, but it wouldn't be quite the slam-dunk you make it to be. Even in your example, Supercharger density in many arears means you can travel to more locations than you could when the car is new, even with a massively degraded battery.
The warranty itself has clear disclaiming language. This is the warranty that was in effect when I purchased my vehicle: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/New_Vehicle_Limited_Warranty_North_America_en_US.pdf
It says
That's pretty clear.
The warranty itself has clear disclaiming language. This is the warranty that was in effect when I purchased my vehicle: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/New_Vehicle_Limited_Warranty_North_America_en_US.pdf
It says
That's pretty clear.
I don't agree with your bias, and how much it has malfunctioned vs. being designed to degrade is clearly a gray area that their lawyers decided they needed to define better. So in your opinion, even if it eventually degrades to 0, that's fine? In my mind that would be both a malfunction and defective - but to you it's designed that way. Ok, let's save it for a judge to see.
I would imagine the earlier cars (pre 30% degradation rule) will have better success legally fighting tesla on the battery not functioning than later cars with the updated legalese.
No. At that point the battery neither charges, or provides power to drive your car. It is no longer storing, and delivering, energy. It has failed.
I don't know at what point you would consider it failed? 50 miles? 100 miles? 1 mile?
geordi
Mr Fusion V.1
I'm currently on a road trip, and the combination of LONG distances between some superchargers (120+ miles) and severe headwinds, added to the supposedly only 11% decline in the original 90 battery in my X... Meant that I did NOT have enough power to reach one charger. The X did not "limit the power" beyond the usual yellow dots on the energy circle, and surprisingly when it got to zero, that was definitely the bottom. It shut down less than 1 mile later - and just about 1.5 short of the damn charger.
As an added bonus, it has twice now refused to charge above 95% when connected to a destination charger overnight - stopping at 95% both times. It was still drawing power on the screen but not charging. If I unplugged and reconnected, it would SAY it was charging, but at such a reduced level (3kw-5kw) as to not even be noticeable and would have added HOURS to the time there. I don't know what is going on, but it is getting VERY frustrating.
As an added bonus, it has twice now refused to charge above 95% when connected to a destination charger overnight - stopping at 95% both times. It was still drawing power on the screen but not charging. If I unplugged and reconnected, it would SAY it was charging, but at such a reduced level (3kw-5kw) as to not even be noticeable and would have added HOURS to the time there. I don't know what is going on, but it is getting VERY frustrating.
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