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Model X only 90 kWh ?

Discussion in 'TSLA Investor Discussions' started by SBenson, Sep 29, 2015.

  1. SBenson

    SBenson Active Member

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    Benson
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    As far as we know, that's correct.
     
  3. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    For now. Some people, including me, expect that a 70kWh battery will be available for the X sometime next year after production really ramps up.
     
  4. Fiver

    Fiver Member

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    If it's next year, and the small battery improvements keep happening, then it might actually be a 75kWh.
     
  5. mrdoubleb

    mrdoubleb Active Member

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    As long as the (P)90D fills the production lines it would be logical to hold off on the cheaper models. They can maximize profits and simplify logistics and inventory management at the same time.
     
  6. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    I think a smaller battery may give up too much range. The 90 is the way to go. Rather than throw a 70 in it later (They really should just kill the 85), and drop the price of the 90 to $1k more... but that's should, and I don't know there costs... so... But I imagine it's easier/cheaper to build 2 of something (70 and 90) than 3 of something... 70, 85, 90.

    Also, at one point, when they had 3, (40,60,85) they were quick to drop that to two choices as well.

    So, yea maybe some day it will get a 70, but what's the guess on range?

    257 miles / 90 kWh = 2.8555 miles per kWh

    sooo..... 200 mile range on 70 kWh. Ish.

    keeping in mind, the standard charge is 90% so 231 is the 'norm' charge for 90 kWh pack.

    200 * .9 = 180 mile range... and that makes EVs sad :(

    Even though, those of us with EVs know that, for the most part, we could get away with a 100 mile range for a daily driver. (statistically)
     
  7. uselesslogin

    uselesslogin Enthusiast

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    Well, 215ish because the 70 battery is lighter. The 90D has an EPA range of 285 or so and the range of the 70D is 84% of that where 70/90=78%. So using that 84% on the 257 EPA range you get an EPA range of 215 for the X70D. I'm sure they will release the 70D or 75D as soon as the backlog is smaller.
     
  8. mrdoubleb

    mrdoubleb Active Member

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    Oh I am quite sure the 85 is not for long, in fact I will be very surprised if it is even offered for the X. The 90 is the new, improved chemistry version of the 85. Sure, it made sense to ask a premium for it for a little while, but as soon as they can get it in large enough quantities, i bet the 85 will be dropped. And at some point it would also make sense to replace the 70 with the new cells too as there is no point in running two different chemistries, unless there is a cost or supply issue with the new stuff. So maybe in 6 months we'll see the 75 and the 90 for both S and X, or the 70 and the 90, but the 70 will have less cells, less cost (for Tesla anyway) and a bit less weight.
     
  9. blakegallagher

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    My bet is the 90 will be the smallest option offered for the X. Once production really ramps up I think they are more likely to offer an X with more range vs less, but who knows.
     
  10. Raffy.Roma

    Raffy.Roma Active Member

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    + 1
     
  11. macpacheco

    macpacheco Member

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    The gossip has been that the 70kWh / 90kWh pack upgrade was created for the Model X.
    The X 70D isn't going to ship until the backlog for first signature X P90D, then X 90D is pretty much done.
    Anything over 200 miles is great range.
    I don't think offering a pack greater than 90 should be done until it is light enough as to weigh as much as the original 85kWh pack, increasing the car's weight to satisfy the range paranoid isn't a smart move in my opinion.
    Most cars rarely drive over 200 miles for months and months in a row.
    There's very little advantage to having a 350 mile range car.
    Increasing supercharger coverage is a more logical cost x benefit move.
     
  12. jhm

    jhm Active Member

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    So the Model X weighs about 5400 pounds and can tow 5000 pounds. How about Tesla design a few utility trailers with battery packs built in. Mostly these trailers would be available for rent.

    One basic 5 by 8 flat bed model would be great hauling stuff like building materials. A covered trailer like a Uhaul trailer could also be quite handy.

    And then there is the power boost trailer. Small and aerodynamic this trailer packs a 70kWh battery. For long trips, you use this for a serious range boost. At rental locations you can simply swap one power boost trailer for another one that is fully chaged and continue on your journey.

    You can also charge any of these trailers and your Model X separately on two different superchargers. So you get double the added range in the time at the Supercharger.

    I think a system like this could make a MX even with only a small battery a very useful tow vehicle and long distance vehicle. With the power boost trailer alone, even a MX with 50 kWh could be quite compelling. Plenty of range for everyday driving, but very convenient battery swapping (power boost) and double fast Supercharging for long trips.
     
  13. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Moderator's Note

    There is an entire forum area about the Model X. Please use that area for discussions that aren't related to investment.
     
  14. SabrToothSqrl

    SabrToothSqrl Active Member

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    if we attach a small nuclear power plant to said trailer, we could drive for YEARS without stopping :)
     
  15. Papafox

    Papafox Active Member

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    The 70kwh battery was designed for Model S, not Model X, IMHO. I've just completed a 50 state tour of America in my 70D, and there were lots of segments in the 190-205 mile range. Although this is a doable distance in most conditions, a 60kwh Model S simply would not have the range for such segments and the move to a 240 mile range in Model S allowed the car to hit its sweet spot. The 60kwh Model S never sold well but the 70kwh Model S is selling well because the 70 and 70D are both capable long-distance cross-country machines.

    Now, if you put a 70kwh battery in a Model X, you'd have range that is similar to the Model S 60kwh vehicle, and you've just dipped below the sweet spot. Sales would be slow at this level. Remember that Elon has said that Teslas will have a real world 200 mile range. To get that real world 200 mile range you need about 240 miles maximum range.

    This discussion is relevant for investors because it affects the viability of the argument that Tesla can simply introduce a 70kwh Model X as an additional demand lever. I think the power of such a move for increasing demand would be weaker than many here imagine.
     

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