Model Y - Gigafactory Texas Production

[Mark Alset]

No, they consistently cherry pick orders for max profit. Both vehicles had FSD with blue paint upgrade so you are pretty much guaranteed two spots at the front of the line.

That makes sense, but still crazy to see them move up a MYLR with a July EDD to try and sell in Q1. Will need to put hold on both cars if they send me a VIN for the MYLR too. So much for my plan to order the MYLR as a “backup” to increase odds I’d get an Austin build with the $10k FSD pricing.

There is still hope though. I should be allowed to hold for up to 90 days from when the orders were placed. That would put me in April, and Austin should be delivering to east coast by then.

I am not too concerned about early Austin builds. I currently have an early build Model 3 vin 15xxx. Many issues with it cropped up before, during, after and years after delivery but Tesla fixed everything. The car is still so much fun to drive. No regrets other than the gen1 seats. They are really uncomfortable on long drives.

 

[voip-ninja]

All this hand wringing around 4680s; I’ve got a June/July window and if they offer me delivery EOQ this month here in California, I’ll grab that 2170 equipped Y and drive it happily. If anything, I’d be nervous if I did get one of the first few thousand 4680 packs.

The performance improvement of not only the new cells but the cars themselves which will be hundreds of pounds lighter are too big to ignore.

For me personally I’m going to wait till my delivery window is near the end of the year to catch as many year over year improvements as possible.

 

[Mrbrock]

That makes sense, but still crazy to see them move up a MYLR with a July EDD to try and sell in Q1. Will need to put hold on both cars if they send me a VIN for the MYLR too. So much for my plan to order the MYLR as a “backup” to increase odds I’d get an Austin build with the $10k FSD pricing.

There is still hope though. I should be allowed to hold for up to 90 days from when the orders were placed. That would put me in April, and Austin should be delivering to east coast by then.

I am not too concerned about early Austin builds. I currently have an early build Model 3 vin 15xxx. Many issues with it cropped up before, during, after and years after delivery but Tesla fixed everything. The car is still so much fun to drive. No regrets other than the gen1 seats. They are really uncomfortable on long drives.

While Austin will likely be delivering to the East Coast by then, they will not be making enough to fulfill all of the orders for the eastern 2/3 of the US. If even 1/3 of the 100k+ order backlog is for the Eastern 2/3, thats 33,000 cars. Majority of orders for the first couple of months will still be fulfilled by Fremont. Just because one truck of 8 cars from Austin might be unloaded at your DC one week, doesn't mean the next one will be from Austin. Just my thinking on how they will keep up supply as Austin ramps production.

The performance improvement of not only the new cells but the cars themselves which will be hundreds of pounds lighter are too big to ignore.

For me personally I’m going to wait till my delivery window is near the end of the year to catch as many year over year improvements as possible.

We do not know if Tesla is going to tune motors to match performance to current Fremont cars. Sure they will be a bit lighter and stiffer (so maybe a bit better handling), but the output of the motors is the single biggest thing affecting performance and we know Tesla plays with the programming of those from year to year. The cells themselves should not improve daily driving performance but have more to do with long term battery pack health and huge cost savings for Tesla.

 

[CRIMSON_DATE]

1) filler is FAR FAR cheaper than battery cells
2) the structural pack is interchangeable with other structural packs, BUT NOT prior version packs. This seems to be a KEY DISTINCTION that people keep missing. Tesla is wedging in a 2170 pack for structure in Berlin, but they are NOT doing that for Austin, because they have a viable battery supply to use during ramp. 2170s also require more engineering to be put into a structural pack, because the structural pack is designed to remove heat from the top/bottom of the (4680) cells. The 4680 cells can transfer heat efficiently to top/bottom because of their tabless design. 2170s are TABBED cells, and do not transfer heat to top/bottom as well, and therefore need additional coolant mechanisms in place between the cells to remove the heat. Fortunately, because the 2170 cells are 10mm shorter, Tesla can wedge this stuff into a "2170 structural pack" and it still fit the new frame, but it's a more complicated (i.e. expensive) design.

There is NO such thing as a 2170 structural pack. The 2170's are not designed to take a load. They are building the cars in Berlin the same way they do it in fremont with the exceptipon of a casted front and rear .

 

[Mrbrock]

There is NO such thing as a 2170 structural pack. The 2170's are not designed to take a load. They are building the cars in Berlin the same way they do it in fremont with the exceptipon of a casted front and rear .

This article would beg to differ unless the 4680 situation in Berlin has changed recently. As has been stated here, they are completely different packs, structural vs non-structural. If they are buildig cars with non-structural 2170, they will need to completely redesign the assembly line to switch to 4680. Since the packs are being assembled at Berlin, no reason not to design the structural pack for 2170 so the rest of the assembly process stays the same when they switch to 4680, just swap a different pack in. This doesn't make sense at Austin because of 4680 availability.

Without 4680 Cells, Tesla May Have Created a Structural 2170 Battery Pack

Volkswagen had an emergency meeting on October 1, 2021, to discuss Tesla’s Giga Grünheide, apparently afraid that Tesla is much more efficient at building cars. On October 9, Tesla held the Giga Fest to present its German factory. No members of the press were allowed in it, only fans. And they...

www.autoevolution.com

 

[Mark Alset]

While Austin will likely be delivering to the East Coast by then, they will not be making enough to fulfill all of the orders for the eastern 2/3 of the US. If even 1/3 of the 100k+ order backlog is for the Eastern 2/3, thats 33,000 cars. Majority of orders for the first couple of months will still be fulfilled by Fremont. Just because one truck of 8 cars from Austin might be unloaded at your DC one week, doesn't mean the next one will be from Austin. Just my thinking on how they will keep up supply as Austin ramps production.


We do not know if Tesla is going to tune motors to match performance to current Fremont cars. Sure they will be a bit lighter and stiffer (so maybe a bit better handling), but the output of the motors is the single biggest thing affecting performance and we know Tesla plays with the programming of those from year to year. The cells themselves should not improve daily driving performance but have more to do with long term battery pack health and huge cost savings for Tesla.

Will indeed be interesting to see how they distribute the 4680 Model Y vs 2170 Model Y to east coast as Austin ramps.

I live in a college town with lots of undergrads, grad students, postdocs, families. Plan is to enjoy the car, and then put into the fleet if/when FSD is level 4. I use FSD every day. It’s clear they will solve this, but it is equally clear they still have a lot of things to improve and that can be solved w software and i suspect forward-side facing cameras (car creeps into oncoming traffic to see clearly, which suggests there is a side visibility issue).

4680 is important for all the reasons mentioned above by others, and especially if they last for 1M miles or more as has been hinted by Tesla. Makes economics of robotaxis work, with insane return on investment.

 

[DealMasterMike]

This article would beg to differ unless the 4680 situation in Berlin has changed recently. As has been stated here, they are completely different packs, structural vs non-structural. If they are buildig cars with non-structural 2170, they will need to completely redesign the assembly line to switch to 4680. Since the packs are being assembled at Berlin, no reason not to design the structural pack for 2170 so the rest of the assembly process stays the same when they switch to 4680, just swap a different pack in. This doesn't make sense at Austin because of 4680 availability.

Without 4680 Cells, Tesla May Have Created a Structural 2170 Battery Pack

Volkswagen had an emergency meeting on October 1, 2021, to discuss Tesla’s Giga Grünheide, apparently afraid that Tesla is much more efficient at building cars. On October 9, Tesla held the Giga Fest to present its German factory. No members of the press were allowed in it, only fans. And they...

www.autoevolution.com

Pretty sure this has already been debunked by Twitter in the past.

Sawyer Merritt - don't expect structural 2170 -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1482494788129726471

Tobias Lindh - don't expect structural 2170 -

https://twitter.com/x/status/1482488256491053061

Whole Mars on the switch timing:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1480351672173953024

 

[ProjectTrinity]

We do not know if Tesla is going to tune motors to match performance to current Fremont cars. Sure they will be a bit lighter and stiffer (so maybe a bit better handling), but the output of the motors is the single biggest thing affecting performance and we know Tesla plays with the programming of those from year to year. The cells themselves should not improve daily driving performance but have more to do with long term battery pack health and huge cost savings for Tesla.

If they lower the output because of the weight savings maybe it’ll be like an electric initial D. Except with 4k lb curb weight

I do expect the performance to be very similar to current MYs even with the new batteries. Just in numbers that normal consumers would understand like 0-60 time and range.

 

[Fairchild]

Actually, for the same kwh in the car, there is "extra space". The 4680s are more energy dense than the 2170s (see battery day slides), furthermore they wick heat out from their top and bottom, instead of requiring all the cooling "channels/blades" that the 2170s have between cells. With those channels not needing to be run between the cells, the cells can be packed in tighter. Again, as pointed out previously - IF you want a "structural" pack but don't want to load if full of cells, you just fill the rest with the "filler" material that goes between the cells. This filler basically hardens into a super-strong ceramic that is easily as strong as the cells themselves.

And when individual cells go bad, just replace the entire battery?? Unnecessarily costly.
Back in 2019, Elon Musk said that replacing battery modules only costs between $5,000 and $7,000. Each Tesla model uses between four and five battery modules per vehicle.

 

[CRIMSON_DATE]

And when individual cells go bad, just replace the entire battery?? Unnecessarily costly.
Back in 2019, Elon Musk said that replacing battery modules only costs between $5,000 and $7,000. Each Tesla model uses between four and five battery modules per vehicle.

Replaceing the batteries on the Structural pack is going to be much more expensive. They need to literally drop the pack which contains all of the seats, consoles, carpet etc.. then remove it , do what they need to with the battery back and then replace all of the interior . It will be CRAZY expensive compared to the 2170 version

 

[bkp_duke]

And when individual cells go bad, just replace the entire battery?? Unnecessarily costly.
Back in 2019, Elon Musk said that replacing battery modules only costs between $5,000 and $7,000. Each Tesla model uses between four and five battery modules per vehicle.

Go look at the structural battery pack cut-out from Gigafest Berlin about 2 months ago. There are NO MODULES. The entire pack is one big module.

If you look at Tesla's warranty provisions, there is an acceptable rate of battery degradation per year, FYI. So Tesla is not going to be replacing packs because Joe Schmoe comes in and complains about 15 miles of lost range in a year.

 

[Fairchild]

Go look at the structural battery pack cut-out from Gigafest Berlin about 2 months ago. There are NO MODULES. The entire pack is one big module.

If you look at Tesla's warranty provisions, there is an acceptable rate of battery degradation per year, FYI. So Tesla is not going to be replacing packs because Joe Schmoe comes in and complains about 15 miles of lost range in a year.

That will be a change to current procedures and like Crimson said, it's going to be one heck of an expensive proposition having to tear up the body. I guess it's going to have to be the million mile battery, but what happens on insurance claims for a slightly damaged battery pack? Total the car? Insurance rates zoom.

 

[bkp_duke]

That will be a change to current procedures and like Crimson said, it's going to be one heck of an expensive proposition having to tear up the body. I guess it's going to have to be the million mile battery, but what happens on insurance claims for a slightly damaged battery pack? Total the car? Insurance rates zoom.

1) any collision that could damage the battery pack would TOTAL the car. If you look at the structural battery pack, it's VERY reinforced. You would completely obliterate crumple zones or A/B/C pilars by the time you damaged the pack. Don't be worried about pack damage, if you are at that point, you should be worried about occupant safety because you probably just got ran over by an 18 wheeler.
2) the 4680 cells by design (physically and by chemistry) are supposed to last much much longer than the 2170s. It's probably close to a "million mile" battery, but Tesla is not going to call it that because no one in their right mind would warranty a battery for that long.
3) just because Tesla is using gigacasts for front and rear does NOT mean that if you bend say a "frame rail" that you have to total the car. These casts are designed with certain cut points on them that a qualified body shop can cut off and weld back on a replacement part. Tesla really has thought this through much better than most of you here are giving them credit.

Hell, I have an "original" 2013 P85 that's 9 years old and still has 85% of original battery capacity. Given that Tesla has been continually improving the chemistry and design of the batteries, I would not be surprised to see the 4680 packs last at least 1/2 a million miles.

And finally . . . bear in mind that the cost of the 4680 pack is supposed to be 56% lower than the 2170 pack (see battery day slides) - and this cost will continue to drop as Tesla leverages more efficiencies (mining their own lithium, lower transport costs by sourcing materials closer to manufacturing, etc.). While not a small cost to replace a pack, it's not nearly the cost it was last year, and certainly not a few years ago.

 

[CRIMSON_DATE]

That will be a change to current procedures and like Crimson said, it's going to be one heck of an expensive proposition having to tear up the body. I guess it's going to have to be the million mile battery, but what happens on insurance claims for a slightly damaged battery pack? Total the car? Insurance rates zoom.

We know how they are building them and that it is easier to install the battery and interior as one unit but we don't really know if there are any maintainance alturnatives. With 2170's they remove the battery and it is entirely enclosed when removed. It is possible that they can remove the battery on the austin Y in a way which exposes the batteries (top half of battery enclosure remains ) but I really don't know.. seems like it would be extreamly dangerous but they may have some tools which can do this. Like everything else about the Austin Y's we don't know *sugar* for certin

 

[bkp_duke]

We know how they are building them and that it is easier to install the battery and interior as one unit but we don't really know if there are any maintainance alturnatives. With 2170's they remove the battery and it is entirely enclosed when removed. It is possible that they can remove the battery on the austin Y in a way which exposes the batteries (top half of battery enclosure remains ) but I really don't know.. seems like it would be extreamly dangerous but they may have some tools which can do this. Like everything else about the Austin Y's we don't know *sugar* for certin

They won't be opening these packs up. The material used to "glue" the cells in place makes it impossible to do any kind of work on the cells themselves (replace, etc). If there is a significant enough failure (i.e. out of warranty spec), then the pack will simply be replaced. The old pack would have to be recycled, since there are no modules you can swap in/out.

 

[CRIMSON_DATE]

They won't be opening these packs up. The material used to "glue" the cells in place makes it impossible to do any kind of work on the cells themselves (replace, etc). If there is a significant enough failure (i.e. out of warranty spec), then the pack will simply be replaced. The old pack would have to be recycled, since there are no modules you can swap in/out.

Was thee some news about how these are being mounted ? The cooling system needs to run by these batteries and GLue isn't a great conducter of heat ...

 

[bkp_duke]

Was thee some news about how these are being mounted ? The cooling system needs to run by these batteries and GLue isn't a great conducter of heat ...

LMGTFY:

Tesla Model Y Structural Battery Pack: What We Know (And Don't Know)

A comparison between Tesla's patent application and the Model Y battery pack cutaways shows many similarities, but there are still some unanswered questions.

insideevs.com

 

[JDL@h]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1499035093544882177

White MY

 

[CRIMSON_DATE]

LMGTFY:

Tesla Model Y Structural Battery Pack: What We Know (And Don't Know)

A comparison between Tesla's patent application and the Model Y battery pack cutaways shows many similarities, but there are still some unanswered questions.

insideevs.com

I may have missed something in there but it mentions a mono slab, not sure I see anything in there about glue unless it is mentioned in the patent .. From those pictures it looks serviceable

 

[bkp_duke]

I may have missed something in there but it mentions a mono slab, not sure I see anything in there about glue unless it is mentioned in the patent .. From those pictures it looks serviceable

First look at Tesla's new structural battery pack that will power its future electric cars

Electrek obtained the first picture of Tesla's new structural battery pack with a honeycomb architecture that will power its future electric vehicles.

electrek.co

See pics and descriptions. Very much "glue" or a "structural adhesive" put between the cells to make the pack much more rigid.

EDIT - this should surprise NO ONE. Go look at Sandy Munroe's teardown of a 2170-based Model Y. The pack may have 3 modules, but within each module the cells are rigidly glued together with this same blue structural adhesive. There is zero serviceability there.