Model Y Performance vs. GV60...Drag!

[BigNerd]

I know this is not popular to say in a Tesla forum but had the Ioniq 5 been available when I bought my Y, I may be driving a Hyundai instead.

I love my Y except for the ride, lack of physical controls and no driver display. At current Y prices, the GV60 at MSRP (just the Advanced trim) looks really good.

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

I know this is not popular to say in a Tesla forum but had the Ioniq 5 been available when I bought my Y, I may be driving a Hyundai instead.

I love my Y except for the ride, lack of physical controls and no driver display. At current Y prices, the GV60 at MSRP (just the Advanced trim) looks really good.

You forgot the markup dealer price, extra insurance they sell for things that don’t break, LoJack and junk fees. I don’t think you’ll lose much trading it in. Let us know how it goes when that happens.

 

[BigNerd]

You forgot the markup dealer price, extra insurance they sell for things that don’t break, LoJack and junk fees. I don’t think you’ll lose much trading it in. Let us know how it goes when that happens.

Yes, there are issues with traditional dealer purchases but everything is crazy right now... you may not be paying markups on Teslas but don't tell me Elon isn't doing the same thing with his price hikes.

Everyone has their likes/dislikes, but I like having options, I didn't have that when I got the Y... but the next time I get an EV, I'm excited by all the different EVs I can choose from.

 

[sleepydoc]

Yes, there are issues with traditional dealer purchases but everything is crazy right now... you may not be paying markups on Teslas but don't tell me Elon isn't doing the same thing with his price hikes.

Everyone has their likes/dislikes, but I like having options, I didn't have that when I got the Y... but the next time I get an EV, I'm excited by all the different EVs I can choose from.

What I like about the Tesla model is everything is clear and up front. Unlike with traditional dealers the price when you order the car is the price you pay. There are no last minute "dealer prep fees" or "additional dealer markups." That doesn't mean the Tesla model is perfect, though.

When the Model Y came out it was essentially a first in class and Tesla hit a sweet spot with it. Other makers have realized this and there are more options which benefits everyone. Ultimately more options will limit dealers' ability to tack on fees, too.

 

[nate704]

One of my friends got a call from his dealer for his F-150 Lightening "reservation" that he was "promised" to get the car when it becomes available.
The dealer told him to pay $10k markup or the car will go to the next guy in line.

 

[sleepydoc]

One of my friends got a call from his dealer for his F-150 Lightening "reservation" that he was "promised" to get the car when it becomes available.
The dealer told him to pay $10k markup or the car will go to the next guy in line.

Yeah - BS like that is why everyone hates car dealers. Time to dump the car and the dealer.

 

[FOOLSLFDRVNG]

Yes, there are issues with traditional dealer purchases but everything is crazy right now... you may not be paying markups on Teslas but don't tell me Elon isn't doing the same thing with his price hikes.

Everyone has their likes/dislikes, but I like having options, I didn't have that when I got the Y... but the next time I get an EV, I'm excited by all the different EVs I can choose from.

Let us know what you get the GV60 for. Crazy is the new norm. When there are more options the Cybertruck and Chinese EVs will probably be better choices.

I made a Toyota account to see how much BZ4X Would go for retail 45k when it first came out 6 months ago. The stealership wanted 15k above MSRP and that was before the wheels fell out and no inventory available. I also checked out the ID4 and they wanted 15k more for a used one because of the shortage. VW dealerships aren‘t allowed to mark up new id4 but a used is fair game.

 

[Apprunner]

Let us know what you get the GV60 for. Crazy is the new norm. When there are more options the Cybertruck and Chinese EVs will probably be better choices.

I made a Toyota account to see how much BZ4X Would go for retail 45k when it first came out 6 months ago. The stealership wanted 15k above MSRP and that was before the wheels fell out and no inventory available. I also checked out the ID4 and they wanted 15k more for a used one because of the shortage. VW dealerships aren‘t allowed to mark up new id4 but a used is fair game.

For those that are diligent, it is possible to get a car close to MSRP. I paid a couple grand over MSRP due to add-ons (paint protection) for my EV6 AWD in June. I had to keep a close eye out on inventory and have my name on dealer lists that sold for MSRP but it was do-able. I think its even easier now given the lack of tax credits.

 

[BigNerd]

Let us know what you get the GV60 for. Crazy is the new norm. When there are more options the Cybertruck and Chinese EVs will probably be better choices.

I made a Toyota account to see how much BZ4X Would go for retail 45k when it first came out 6 months ago. The stealership wanted 15k above MSRP and that was before the wheels fell out and no inventory available. I also checked out the ID4 and they wanted 15k more for a used one because of the shortage. VW dealerships aren‘t allowed to mark up new id4 but a used is fair game.

I can get a GV60 for MSRP through a broker.... but the new EV credit law put a kibosh on non-NA built EVs.

You can't use normal sales channels in these crazy times... to get any type of MSRP (or discounted deal), you have to order or use a broker who can get you a better deal (sometimes out of the state you live in).

I missed the 2022 Mach-E order window... 2023s may not get here in time for the Fed credit and Ford raised the better trims $6k+.

How much do you think the Cybertruck will actually cost? It's not going to be $40k.

Tesla used market is just as crazy as non-Teslas, that's why people are trying to flip them, especially older orders with the lower price.

 

[Daekwan]

Just wait another 1-2 years and they will all catch up. Does Tesla have fast charging? Tesla doesn't have a lock on battery tech (e.g., Lucid).

I look forward to the competition.

What's probably most shocking to me is just how fast EVERYBODY caught up. For years we were told that Tesla has this huge lead over everybody else.. like a 10-year head start.. and that other manufacturers would basically be out of business in a few years because nobody could match what Tesla is doing. In reality.. even with a huge amount of component shortages and slowdowns in production thanks to COVID shutdowns.. in just the last 1-2 years or so.. legacy manufacturers have launched an onslaught of actual production EVs that are EXTREMELY competitive with Tesla's core lineup. The most surprising is the Rivian R1T & F150-Lightning trucks that are both on the street.. years before the Cybertruck has even started manufacturing!

Tesla still has the best overall EV experience. And of course, no one has matched the Supercharger network in terms of location, reliability, and ease of use. But it appears even that is only a matter of time as news just hit that the DOT has approved the new federally funded EV charging network in all 50 states and a that $1.5B budget to build out those new chargers is readily available. And that's before I get to the part where the Supercharger network is supposed to open up to non-Tesla vehicles (its probably a requirement for Tesla to open the SC network to access some of $1.5B in new charger funding).

Look Im a Tesla fan. But I am NOT a Tesla fanboy. The same goes for any automaker or corporation you can name. I buy these products because they fit my needs, wants & budget at this particular time in life. And generally speaking every 3-5 years I switch vehicles, makes, and models. Hell, my last 4 vehicles have been a Lincoln Navigator, Chevrolet Corvette, Honda CRV, and now a Tesla Model Y.. go figure lol. Good chance my next vehicle will be another EV as I can't go back to pay for gas or ICE maintenance.. but it's probably going to be an EV truck or 3-row SUV as I am craving something bigger and more masculine than my Model Y. A 100% BEV 4 door Jeep Wrangler.. with the full off-road prowess and removable doors & roof would be at the absolute top of my EV wishlist. And honestly, if I had $100K to spend.. that's exactly what the new EV Hummer already delivers. Its not even something I have to dream about.

As far as staying on topic in this conversation.. it's pretty surprising to see the GV60 kick so much ass in this particular video. And with an interior that looks like something out a real luxury car. Really makes you wonder just how much "performance" the EV6 GT will have.. if the GV60 is already this quick. Last rumor I saw said the EV6 GT will do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and cost about $65K.

 

[vexige]

Let us know what you get the GV60 for. Crazy is the new norm. When there are more options the Cybertruck and Chinese EVs will probably be better choices.

I made a Toyota account to see how much BZ4X Would go for retail 45k when it first came out 6 months ago. The stealership wanted 15k above MSRP and that was before the wheels fell out and no inventory available. I also checked out the ID4 and they wanted 15k more for a used one because of the shortage. VW dealerships aren‘t allowed to mark up new id4 but a used is fair game.

Here in NJ at least three dealers I know are selling it at MSRP. Same in long island. I gather there were a few on the west coast charging more, but doubt it is the case any longer, since the $7500 credit disappeared.

PS: friend of mine who is a broker is getting them below MSRP.

 

[nate704]

What's probably most shocking to me is just how fast EVERYBODY caught up. For years we were told that Tesla has this huge lead over everybody else.. like a 10-year head start.. and that other manufacturers would basically be out of business in a few years because nobody could match what Tesla is doing. In reality.. even with a huge amount of component shortages and slowdowns in production thanks to COVID shutdowns.. in just the last 1-2 years or so.. legacy manufacturers have launched an onslaught of actual production EVs that are EXTREMELY competitive with Tesla's core lineup. The most surprising is the Rivian R1T & F150-Lightning trucks that are both on the street.. years before the Cybertruck has even started manufacturing!

Tesla still has the best overall EV experience. And of course, no one has matched the Supercharger network in terms of location, reliability, and ease of use. But it appears even that is only a matter of time as news just hit that the DOT has approved the new federally funded EV charging network in all 50 states and a that $1.5B budget to build out those new chargers is readily available. And that's before I get to the part where the Supercharger network is supposed to open up to non-Tesla vehicles (its probably a requirement for Tesla to open the SC network to access some of $1.5B in new charger funding).

Look Im a Tesla fan. But I am NOT a Tesla fanboy. The same goes for any automaker or corporation you can name. I buy these products because they fit my needs, wants & budget at this particular time in life. And generally speaking every 3-5 years I switch vehicles, makes, and models. Hell, my last 4 vehicles have been a Lincoln Navigator, Chevrolet Corvette, Honda CRV, and now a Tesla Model Y.. go figure lol. Good chance my next vehicle will be another EV as I can't go back to pay for gas or ICE maintenance.. but it's probably going to be an EV truck or 3-row SUV as I am craving something bigger and more masculine than my Model Y. A 100% BEV 4 door Jeep Wrangler.. with the full off-road prowess and removable doors & roof would be at the absolute top of my EV wishlist. And honestly, if I had $100K to spend.. that's exactly what the new EV Hummer already delivers. Its not even something I have to dream about.

As far as staying on topic in this conversation.. it's pretty surprising to see the GV60 kick so much ass in this particular video. And with an interior that looks like something out a real luxury car. Really makes you wonder just how much "performance" the EV6 GT will have.. if the GV60 is already this quick.

Mostly agreed, but not entirely sure about a few things.
Yes, all these legacy auto makers introduced their EVs even though the number of available units were severely limited. I don't think all the other auto makers have caught up with Tesla yet.
All they did was gut out ICE components and slap the motors and pouch batteries with midcore battery management system. Sure they got the fit and finish,, interior parts since they were already doing it for several decades now, but none of the other EVs were not proven over time like Tesla did. On paper, it looks like the others are catching up fast, but I think they just produced half fast products on the market just to introduce EVs before others.
They really don't have long term "EV" test yet since they are only 1-2 years old, and not many average consumers were able to buy them due to their lack of built units.
IMO, all these legacy auto makers doing their EV approach backwards. They design their cars with not mature battery/motor/BMS technology and package it with fancy distractions, such as HUD, adaptive suspension, carplay, interior/exterior while Tesla focused on the battery/motor/BMS side first and then slowly catching up the other department.
I am not sure if 5 second Ford and 10 second Hyundai/Kia can be real performance leaders. If they put limits on their performance side, that means they couldn't really solve the issues/problems with their battery/motor/BMS technology while Tesla can do all that with no limit/restriction.

 

[sleepydoc]

Mostly agreed, but not entirely sure about a few things.
Yes, all these legacy auto makers introduced their EVs even though the number of available units were severely limited. I don't think all the other auto makers have caught up with Tesla yet.
All they did was gut out ICE components and slap the motors and pouch batteries with midcore battery management system. Sure they got the fit and finish,, interior parts since they were already doing it for several decades now, but none of the other EVs were not proven over time like Tesla did. On paper, it looks like the others are catching up fast, but I think they just produced half fast products on the market just to introduce EVs before others.
They really don't have long term "EV" test yet since they are only 1-2 years old, and not many average consumers were able to buy them due to their lack of built units.
IMO, all these legacy auto makers doing their EV approach backwards. They design their cars with not mature battery/motor/BMS technology and package it with fancy distractions, such as HUD, adaptive suspension, carplay, interior/exterior while Tesla focused on the battery/motor/BMS side first and then slowly catching up the other department.
I am not sure if 5 second Ford and 10 second Hyundai/Kia can be real performance leaders. If they put limits on their performance side, that means they couldn't really solve the issues/problems with their battery/motor/BMS technology while Tesla can do all that with no limit/restriction.

True, but the problem is a lot of the general public doesn't necessarily recognize that while they do recognize the superficial things like fit and finish, ride quality, features, etc. That and Elon has managed to alienate a lot of people with his stunts means there are a lot of people who will happily look at EVs besides Teslas.

 

[nate704]

That and Elon has managed to alienate a lot of people with his stunts means there are a lot of people who will happily look at EVs besides Teslas.

I highly doubt that "a lot of people" will make their EV or Tesla product buying decision based on the CEO's political view. Those "alienated" people are very specific and small group of people on Twitter.

Anyway, I really hope that the others will catch up and actually beat Tesla with their products, so that we, consumers, have more EV buying options with competitive prices. Until then we are at the mercy of auto makers in terms of options and prices.

 

[sleepydoc]

I highly doubt that "a lot of people" will make their EV or Tesla product buying decision based on the CEO's political view.

You’d be surprised. Purchasing decisions tend to be fairly irrational and conscious or unconscious impressions can play a big roll. Negative press from crashes (even if they’re not Tesla’s fault) can play into decisions as well.

Tesla tends to be like Apple - it has a lot of hard core fans (and fanboys) that are very passionate but can also alienate.

 

[Tha_Ape]

You’d be surprised. Purchasing decisions tend to be fairly irrational and conscious or unconscious impressions can play a big roll. Negative press from crashes (even if they’re not Tesla’s fault) can play into decisions as well.

Tesla tends to be like Apple - it has a lot of hard core fans (and fanboys) that are very passionate but can also alienate.

Only reason I really went away from Apple after my 3GS died is that Samsung overtook them in features (the Galaxy S3 had tap to pay years before Apple). I recently got rid of my S10, I took a hard look at Apple again, but their phones were at best equivalent to the 3yr old S10s specs and were lacking features.

I still have an iPad, work provides me with an iPhone, and I have an older MacBook. So I'm familiar with the products, just not a great value for what they offer (IMHO), I think some people fear change so they stick with it.

I have a Tesla now, but when I'm ready to replace it, brand loyalty is not a given. I really like it and think it's the best all around car out there when you consider price/ space/ range/ features, but I'll reevaluate once the warranty is almost up. I couldn't care less what the CEO says. Most billionaires are super villains.

 

[BMWY]

What's probably most shocking to me is just how fast EVERYBODY caught up. For years we were told that Tesla has this huge lead over everybody else.. like a 10-year head start.. and that other manufacturers would basically be out of business in a few years because nobody could match what Tesla is doing. In reality.. even with a huge amount of component shortages and slowdowns in production thanks to COVID shutdowns.. in just the last 1-2 years or so.. legacy manufacturers have launched an onslaught of actual production EVs that are EXTREMELY competitive with Tesla's core lineup. The most surprising is the Rivian R1T & F150-Lightning trucks that are both on the street.. years before the Cybertruck has even started manufacturing!

Tesla still has the best overall EV experience. And of course, no one has matched the Supercharger network in terms of location, reliability, and ease of use. But it appears even that is only a matter of time as news just hit that the DOT has approved the new federally funded EV charging network in all 50 states and a that $1.5B budget to build out those new chargers is readily available. And that's before I get to the part where the Supercharger network is supposed to open up to non-Tesla vehicles (its probably a requirement for Tesla to open the SC network to access some of $1.5B in new charger funding).

Look Im a Tesla fan. But I am NOT a Tesla fanboy. The same goes for any automaker or corporation you can name. I buy these products because they fit my needs, wants & budget at this particular time in life. And generally speaking every 3-5 years I switch vehicles, makes, and models. Hell, my last 4 vehicles have been a Lincoln Navigator, Chevrolet Corvette, Honda CRV, and now a Tesla Model Y.. go figure lol. Good chance my next vehicle will be another EV as I can't go back to pay for gas or ICE maintenance.. but it's probably going to be an EV truck or 3-row SUV as I am craving something bigger and more masculine than my Model Y. A 100% BEV 4 door Jeep Wrangler.. with the full off-road prowess and removable doors & roof would be at the absolute top of my EV wishlist. And honestly, if I had $100K to spend.. that's exactly what the new EV Hummer already delivers. Its not even something I have to dream about.

As far as staying on topic in this conversation.. it's pretty surprising to see the GV60 kick so much ass in this particular video. And with an interior that looks like something out a real luxury car. Really makes you wonder just how much "performance" the EV6 GT will have.. if the GV60 is already this quick. Last rumor I saw said the EV6 GT will do 0-60 in 3.2 seconds and cost about $65K.

Well, Tesla kind of allowed the competition to catch up in a way. I mean truthfully, is the Model Y that you can by today that much better than the one you could have bought two years ago? Not really. And here we were promised track mode, magical OTA updates that would unlock new features, power, etc. Still waiting.......

 

[Daekwan]

Well, Tesla kind of allowed the competition to catch up in a way. I mean truthfully, is the Model Y that you can by today that much better than the one you could have bought two years ago? Not really. And here we were promised track mode, magical OTA updates that would unlock new features, power, etc. Still waiting.......

I certainly agree there. When the trade-in offers for Model Y's were getting absolutely nuts last year.. I had standing offers as high as $60K for my 2021 MYSR (standard range) and could order a brand new MYP for $63K. Only $3K to upgrade to an MYP!! After I went back and forth on it.. I simply couldn't find enough difference between my car and MYP to pull the trigger. Granted that "Only $3K" was really more like "Only $10K".. once you added another $1,200 delivery fee, $250 order fee and having to pay state taxes all over again. But I just couldn't warrant spending that much more money for what was basically the same car I already had.. just faster and with a little more range.

I would imagine if you put a 2020 MYP beside a 2022 MYP.. only the most hardcore Tesla fans could tell the difference. And even then, it would mainly be that one car has a shiny flip-up console in the middle.. while the other car has a sliding console with exposed wireless phone chargers.

 

[Watts_Up]

I simply couldn't find enough difference between my car and MYP to pull the trigger.

The justifiction for getting a new car should be more based on your mileage and possible battery degradation.

 

[MY-Y]

To add fuel to this conversation, here are my DRAGY results from my 2020 LA AWD Y with the Performance Boost Upgrade:

Looks like you let off the gas pedal too soon.