Model Y unveiling event 2019-03-14 (official thread)

[SMAlset]

If anything, it would be a death knell to sedans. You get the same benefits of a sedan but with additional utility/storage. Without the taller flank would be great.

When I was in Italy last year, I was counting sedans vs. other cars and it was probably less than 1 in 20. They have vehicle for sale in Italy called "station/sports wagons" which are great but I think they may be illegal to sell in the U.S.

Does Europe have any full-size SUV/crossover vehicles like here in the U.S.? I tend to see photos of small cars. I know a lot of streets are narrower in some countries and if they have garages those can be very narrow as well. Remember seeing a news story of how the hatchback style of vehicle was popular there due to the need to be compact yet fit belongings when needed.

Personally as a two-person household of which there are many here in both younger and older age groups I prefer a sedan. No need to spend more for a car for length or liftgate I don’t need. Rather put those $ towards an upgrade package or accessories. With my rear seat folding down don’t really see the need for a bigger, longer car. Wasn’t that kind of a familiar complaint about the Model S? Also no where to “hide” belongings out of sight unlike a sedan with trunk area.

 

[woodisgood]

So uh, what's the "something" nobody caught....

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EDIT: Appears to be a Giga in Europe...

 

[tga]

Managed is not the same as enjoyed every minute of the snow and laughed at everyone that stuck. It's a different experience and much more rewarding during the winter (and frankly fun in the summer too).

LOL the guy from Long Island lecturing the guy from Canada about winter driving.

FWIW, my brother in Montreal manages just fine with a FWD Escape and winter tires. I've done fine for 3 winters with a RWD S and Hakka R2's, including multiple treks over VT mountain passes.

 

[tga]

It really should be called a Sports Activity Coupe since that's what BMW calls this body style and they popularized it (unless you count the Pontiac Aztec which I guess was ahead of its time!).
I'd like to see a photoshop of it with a practical hatch (sort of like the X6 -> X5). Man, I hate this design trend so much...

BMW only started using that stupid in-house developed moniker after swearing they would never build an SUV. Then they realized how much money they were losing out on, released the X5, and came up with "SAV" as some inane face-saving BS.

 

[TT97]

Does Europe have any full-size SUV/crossover vehicles like here in the U.S.? I tend to see photos of small cars. I know a lot of streets are narrower in some countries and if they have garages those can be very narrow as well. Remember seeing a news story of how the hatchback style of vehicle was popular there due to the need to be compact yet fit belongings when needed.

You will see them occasionally but very rare. Every summer we do short-term lease to use (as a non-EU resident, you can get a new car without paying VAT and then return at end of use for much cheaper than renting). A few years ago, we got a minivan as we have two families together and even a minivan was hard to navigate around town and was ridiculous trying to park. Now we just lease two hatchbacks every summer and is much easier.

Hatchbacks and station wagons are by far the most common vehicles but recently CUVs have been increasing in popularity (small ones though). The Model Y will definitely be on the upper end size wise.

 

[Mickie]

Let’s not glaze over the fact that these cars are also designed to be super efficient in terms of drag coefficient. I think Franz is doing the best he can with the styling while achieving these numbers.

For everyone hating the look of the X, which IMO needs 22” wheel treatment as to not look completely neutered—it has a Cd of 0.24, more less in line with S. I believe the 3 is even 0.21? To quick contrast, a Nissan GT-R is 0.29. An i8, 0.26. X ain’t doin’ bad for soccer mom status..

The S knocks this out of the park with gorgeous styling to match the numbers. As people have echoed, SUVs are inherently ugly. But I still feel Tesla is putting out a great looking SUV product while achieving staggering low Cd numbers. The S just set the damn bar too high...

 

[Snow Drift]

LOL the guy from Long Island lecturing the guy from Canada about winter driving.

FWIW, my brother in Montreal manages just fine with a FWD Escape and winter tires. I've done fine for 3 winters with a RWD S and Hakka R2's, including multiple treks over VT mountain passes.

I lived in Boston for 7 years and I have family in Laconia, NH where I go multiple times a year, especially for skiing at Loon. So I'm very familiar with snow driving. AWD + snow tires makes for a really fun winter.

Oh, and I’ve survived a week in Quebec too... (aftermath pic taken in Laconia).

 

[tga]

I lived in Boston for 7 years and I have family in Laconia, NH where I go multiple times a year, especially for skiing at Loon. So I'm very familiar with snow driving. AWD + snow tires makes for a really fun winter.

Oh, and I’ve survived a week in Quebec too... (aftermath pic taken in Laconia).

View attachment 386739

Stop ruining my fun with facts...

 

[Vern Padgett]

Tough to save much if any money in the Boston area, at least with a Model S. I do not claim a gas savings...

That is disturbing. What are you paying per kW to charge your Model S?

 

[Vern Padgett]

I think it's very possible the Model Y is THE vehicle that signals the death knell for SUV popularity.


Is this where we are now? That a few inches higher seating position is what defines an SUV? When the SUV is nearly indistinguishable from the car it's based on, will people finally start to ask "What do I need this for, then?"

Why would anyone purchase this over the Model 3? What single thing does it do better than the Model 3? The hatchback? Is that it?

Is having a slightly taller flank and a slightly higher roofline really that important to people? What shortcoming of the Model 3 do those items address? Is headroom an issue in the Model 3?

Also, someone is going to have to show me how there is a third row of seats in this design, because there is simply no way. Unless there's an extended wheelbase version coming.

Somewhere along the line, automakers forgot there was supposed to be certain amount of U in an SUV to justify buying the thing. An SUV with a sedan roofline. Everyone has lost the plot.

Agree totally.

I never understood the whole SUV / Crossover / minivan / whatever appeal until I watched my wife's two obese friends get in and out of their giant pickup truck.

Or my obese friend get in and out of the passenger seat of my Model S. He was so big that I had to buckle up his seat belt for him. He couldn't reach it.

Take a look at the typical fat American getting in and out of their vehicle and the SUV demand makes more sense.

 

[David29]

That is disturbing. What are you paying per kW to charge your Model S?

23 cents/kWh (which includes energy cost, delivery, and monthly fee for the account).
I can probably show a small savings compared to my previous car, a Mercedes that required premium fuel. But most people I speak with are not thinking of a Mercedes or premium fuel, so with gas prices as low as they are, I do not want to claim a savings when I speak with folks, because they could be and likely will be disappointed by how small the savings are.
I live in New England and park my car outside, so a factor is the weather and the cost of preheating the car in winter. If we were speaking only of the cost to operate the car during nice weather when you can achieve the EPA rated range, it might be another story. But I try to be honest and realistic with people.
I imagine the comparisons are easier with Model 3, which is smaller and more efficient.

 

[Vern Padgett]

This is precisely my point.

Long ago, people stopped buying station wagons because of the negative connotations; no one wants to drive the dorky car their dad drove. Folks moved to minivans. Then people stopped buying them because no one wanted to drive a mommymobile. Someday, young people will not want to drive an SUV like their parents did. I guarantee this.

There will always be SUVs, and minivans, and station wagons. But when this is what is being trotted out as an SUV, then what is the justification of this over a station wagon? Ride height? Are folks going to figure out soon that we don't live in Angola and ride height is such a non-requirement in the US as to be laughable?

Yes, it is all about ride height.

Americans are too fat to get in and out of sedans.

 

[Brave Ulysses]

its not just about being fat. I'm 6'2" and 220 lbs. Large athletic man. Getting in and out of the S really wasn't comfortable for me. And I do prefer a higher ride as does my wife, and she is 5'2", 120 lbs. It's more about preference.... and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

[Vern Padgett]

23 cents/kWh (which includes energy cost, delivery, and monthly fee for the account).
I can probably show a small savings compared to my previous car, a Mercedes that required premium fuel. But most people I speak with are not thinking of a Mercedes or premium fuel, so with gas prices as low as they are, I do not want to claim a savings when I speak with folks, because they could be and likely will be disappointed by how small the savings are.
I live in New England and park my car outside, so a factor is the weather and the cost of preheating the car in winter. If we were speaking only of the cost to operate the car during nice weather when you can achieve the EPA rated range, it might be another story. But I try to be honest and realistic with people.
I imagine the comparisons are easier with Model 3, which is smaller and more efficient.

Thank you. I get it.
Our Southern California Edison weekday rate is 45c a kW, but we charge our cars after 10 pm at 15c a kW.
And we have never never heated the car before driving it. Cooled it, yes, but never heated it.
Petrol is indeed cheap. It was $1.89 a gallon a few weeks ago in South Carolina. My brother may be the only South Carolinian thinking about buying a Tesla. We saw only 2 Teslas during the 2 weeks we were there-- one in Charleston and the other near Charlotte (in North Carolina). I see more Teslas during my 8 minute drive home from work here near Los Angeles, than I saw in 2 weeks in the Carolinas.
We have not bought gasoline in nearly 3 years.
I think Tesla should use the "gas savings" in their pricing. But not for Boston!
-- Vern

 

[Daniel in SD]

BMW only started using that stupid in-house developed moniker after swearing they would never build an SUV. Then they realized how much money they were losing out on, released the X5, and came up with "SAV" as some inane face-saving BS.

The point is this is all BMWs fault for popularizing this ridiculous body style. Looks like the Model Y has 10 cubic feet less cargo space than the Subaru Forester and Honda CR-V. I'm just upset because what I really want is a Model 3 wagon.

 

[Daniel in SD]

This is what the Model Y should look like. Add the lift and black fenders for people who are into that sort of thing. There's still time to fix it!

 

[StealthP3D]

Your understanding of why rates are high has nothing to do with the fact that they can be high enough to wipe out fuel savings compared to petrol.

Not compared to a car even remotely comparable to a Model 3 or a Model Y. And the fuel prices are going up for summer.

 

[SageBrush]

Not compared to a car even remotely comparable to a Model 3 or a Model Y.

hmmm ...

40 cents a kWh is about 12 cents a mile.
At 30 mpg, petrol would be $3.60 a gallon

 

[mattjs33]

This is what the Model Y should look like. Add the lift and black fenders for people who are into that sort of thing. There's still time to fix it!View attachment 386775

This... would sell like beer in Las Vegas.

 

[NewTMSMan]

23 cents/kWh (which includes energy cost, delivery, and monthly fee for the account).
I can probably show a small savings compared to my previous car, a Mercedes that required premium fuel. But most people I speak with are not thinking of a Mercedes or premium fuel, so with gas prices as low as they are, I do not want to claim a savings when I speak with folks, because they could be and likely will be disappointed by how small the savings are.
I live in New England and park my car outside, so a factor is the weather and the cost of preheating the car in winter. If we were speaking only of the cost to operate the car during nice weather when you can achieve the EPA rated range, it might be another story. But I try to be honest and realistic with people.
I imagine the comparisons are easier with Model 3, which is smaller and more efficient.

Have to say I was a bit shocked as I save substantially compared to previous Porsche Panamera 4S, but I do pay $0.18/kWh full up costs and averaged 22 MPG with the Porsche. I ran the numbers for 25 MPG using cheap fuel ($2.33 / gallon) and used high range of power for my P100D at 400 Whr/mile and it is about a wash at 15,000 miles per year at $0.23/ kWhr. Sorry I doubted you

On the Porsche comparison with 22 MPG, using $3/gallon of premium and 350 Whr/mile (more like my annual average) I save 40% compared to paying for gas. All the small differences really add up.