Model Y vs Mustang Mach E

[patmurphey]

Don't forget that the sparse service centers and showrooms are entirely the fault of NADA, the dealers organization and lobbying entity. State laws were written to protect franchised dealers from their own manufacturers setting up competing manufacturer owned dealerships. The laws were worded to outlaw direct factory sales. Those laws were never intended to apply to Tesla's current factory direct situation having no franchised dealers to protect. Some of the laws have been modified, some states have settled lawsuits by allowing minimum presence, and some states like Michigan and Texas prohibit the sale of Teslas.

Texas is ironic with the huge investment in the state by Tesla with the gigafactory and Musk's SpaceX. The Texas legislature failed to deal with the law in the most recent session and the next meeting is 2 years off. (The current special session mess does not have he law on the agenda.)

Don't doubt that Tesla would set up more centers if they could, witness their willingness to spend on Superchargers. I expect it will be a long hard battle, but helped by the OEMs realizing that EVs require a different model.

 

[Tha_Ape]

I can't say I have zero brand loyalty but like you, I also figure out my requirements and go from there.

I do have models I like, but not necessarily companies. I really like Miata's (NA's, NB,s and ND's... not a fan of NCs) because they are a blast to drive and cheap to maintain, but I dont necessarily like Mazdas as a whole. Just those cars. Same thing with Toyota. I really like the Prius/Prius Prime (I've had them and liked them) they are ridiculously efficient cars and cheap to maintain, but not really a huge Toyota fan. I only looked at the Rav4 because it checked boxes.

That said, I like the Model Y, I think it hits the sweet spot of what I need right now and it does it perfectly. My only complaints are a few delivery issues, but once those are taken care of I have a feeling I'll love the car (only had it a month). But by no means does it mean I'm going to get a S, 3, or X in the future. Definitely think the CT is hideous and its body shape is a huge reason I wouldnt even consider it, but not gonna lie... the roadster is drop dead sexy!

 

[jsight]

My experience with 4 different Toyota dealerships in Southern California (over 40 years of owning Toyotas) is that they view the service center as one of the main the profit centers for dealership along with parts sales. I have never been offered a loaner car even when repairs take overnight. If the issue is not straight forward scheduled maintenance, they have no problem exaggerating the cause to maximize their service revenue.

Dealers don't want EVs because they will cut into this revenue stream.

Exactly my experience with two Japanese brands. One of them offered 2 years of free oil changes! But they wanted tire rotations if you came in, even if it had only been 3k miles. And they somehow recommended a $130 alignment during the first year. And every other service visit came with >$100 in recommended services that they'd really pressure you on.

The other dealer wasn't nearly as bad about that, but they did try to claim that the manufacturer had not extended the warranty on my car, just some others from the same line. I had to show them the website to get the warranty work done. Then they misread a RELATED code and wanted to charge well over $1k for non-warranty work as part of the job.

Dealers have spent >100 years mastering the art of extracting the maximum amount of money from their customers. Tesla is still really new at that game and it shows in their financials for sales & service.

I'd love for them to fix their communication issues, though. It is fair to say Tesla is near last in that category right now and it is a frustrating problem.

 

[a2t2]

Don't forget that the sparse service centers and showrooms are entirely the fault of NADA, the dealers organization and lobbying entity. State laws were written to protect franchised dealers from their own manufacturers setting up competing manufacturer owned dealerships. The laws were worded to outlaw direct factory sales. Those laws were never intended to apply to Tesla's current factory direct situation having no franchised dealers to protect. Some of the laws have been modified, some states have settled lawsuits by allowing minimum presence, and some states like Michigan and Texas prohibit the sale of Teslas.

Texas is ironic with the huge investment in the state by Tesla with the gigafactory and Musk's SpaceX. The Texas legislature failed to deal with the law in the most recent session and the next meeting is 2 years off. (The current special session mess does not have he law on the agenda.)

Don't doubt that Tesla would set up more centers if they could, witness their willingness to spend on Superchargers. I expect it will be a long hard battle, but helped by the OEMs realizing that EVs require a different model.

This is a very good point.

But at the end of the day, the average consumer could give a sh1t about NADA and their crooked back room dealings. When a person buys an expensive car, they want to be able to bring it in for service if it needs it and they want to be able to talk an actual person to get help. Right NOW not in a month. Thats fundamental. That wont change. Expensive Teslas will always need service, have you looked at all the crap inside this car ? Its going to break and its going to need service. Saying theres no Tesla centers around because the slimy dealers organization stacked the deck in their own favor is an unfortunate result, but to the guy who just paid $70K he doesnt really care. He just wants a car backed by service.

I like the white glove idea where Tesla brings you an equivalent loaner and takes your car when it needs service. They will NEED to do that in order to stay competitive once the big boys catch up with the tech. And they will catch up.

 

[Dennisis]

This is a very good point.

But at the end of the day, the average consumer could give a sh1t about NADA and their crooked back room dealings. When a person buys an expensive car, they want to be able to bring it in for service if it needs it and they want to be able to talk an actual person to get help. Right NOW not in a month. Thats fundamental. That wont change. Expensive Teslas will always need service, have you looked at all the crap inside this car ? Its going to break and its going to need service. Saying theres no Tesla centers around because the slimy dealers organization stacked the deck in their own favor is an unfortunate result, but to the guy who just paid $70K he doesnt really care. He just wants a car backed by service.

I like the white glove idea where Tesla brings you an equivalent loaner and takes your car when it needs service. They will NEED to do that in order to stay competitive once the big boys catch up with the tech. And they will catch up.

I think by now everyone gets you haven’t received good service and you’re not happy about it. Tesla needs to fix it or they’ll go under. Anything else to add? You’re not the first to have this epiphany - not an original thought and everyone would like better for sure. You’re 3 weeks into this and many of us have been here for years - Tesla is still around and Elon won’t answer your calls. Short the stock if it makes you feel better or kick your dog. Having a hissy fit here after you’ve repeatedly stated your point and made dire warnings is just boring at this point.

 

[Zorg]

Frankly, at the current factory building rate by Tesla and progress made by the legacy carmakers, Tesla has a good shot at becoming one of the big boy manufacturers long before any of the current big boys catch up to Tesla.

 

[El joe]

Frankly, at the current factory building rate by Tesla and progress made by the legacy carmakers, Tesla has a good shot at becoming one of the big boy manufacturers long before any of the current big boys catch up to Tesla.

I agree. I think people vastly underestimate how big of a lead Tesla actually has.

 

[a2t2]

I think by now everyone gets you haven’t received good service and you’re not happy about it. Tesla needs to fix it or they’ll go under. Anything else to add? You’re not the first to have this epiphany - not an original thought and everyone would like better for sure. You’re 3 weeks into this and many of us have been here for years - Tesla is still around and Elon won’t answer your calls. Short the stock if it makes you feel better or kick your dog. Having a hissy fit here after you’ve repeatedly stated your point and made dire warnings is just boring at this point.

lol ok buddy. Everything is fine, Tesla couldnt possibly be any better and should proceed with absolute blinders on

 

[Dennisis]

lol ok buddy. Everything is fine, Tesla couldnt possibly be any better and should proceed with absolute blinders on

You’re so locked in you only hear what you want to hear “buddy”….. and now name calling, how did we get by without you (edit: I see the original “fanboy” post was deleted). Sorry dog, looks like you’re in for a rough night….

 

[WADan]

Sorry if this was posted before:

Ford Mustang Mach-E Buyer Shares Horrible Dealership Experiences: Extreme Price Markups, Random $1000 Dealership Fees, & Enraged Salespeople - CleanTechnica

Sign up for daily news updates from CleanTechnica on email. Or follow us on Google News! YouTube channel Get Energi, which is mostly about electric vehicles and deep dives into the latest EVs on the market, was created by an electrical test engineer whose passion is learning about EVs and ...

cleantechnica.com

They ain’t get my money for sure!

 

[73Bruin]

Really a $45k Toyota is the minimum one must spend to get decent service? Your ignorance of Toyota pricing

Well the loaner situation depends on what you bought from Toyota. If you bought cheap cars, used, then yeah they prob wouldnt give you a free loaner. If it was a $45 ish + car still under factory warranty and they didnt give you a loaner for an overnight visit, then you chose to work with a subpar dealership.

I think the service revenue stream will still be there for EV market, but I get what you are saying = likely not to the extent as they were used to with ICE vehicles as there is just less to fix. So they could expand and offer "upgrades" like installing performance suspension kits, interior / exterior mods that sort of thing. Theres plenty of ways Tesla can make $$ on service but right now it seems they are merely trying to generate revenue from the initial sales alone and putting zero effort into post sale service. Thats a dangerous model on such pricey vehicles.

First, I have only purchased 1 used car in my life and that was from a relative. All of the Toyota's that I purchased, except the Prius, were either the most expensive model car that Toyota was then selling or very nearly so. The dealerships included the so-called "President's" dealership (a few blocks from Toyota's old headquarters), the largest Toyota dealership by sales volume in the United States (Longo Toyota) and what I believe is one of the largest auto dealer groups in the US (DCH Toyota - which is part of the Lithia group). None were "subpar": by any reasonable measure. I have also taken my Prius for service at the Steven Wade Toyota in St. George Utah (again no loaner or even an offer to allow me to rent a car).

IMO, your feeling about the service revenue stream still being there for dealers is not well thought out nor is the importance of a dealer.service option to customers of even moderately well made EVs. In an EV dominated world, ICE specific services like oil changes and tuneups will fade away. The majority of non-warranty service work comprises things like body work, tires, brakes, shocks and other suspension changes and detailing. These areas are currently dominated by non-dealer service companies. Would you make your purchase decision for an EV based upon whether your dealer sells tires?

 

[PLazovich]

Well, having 2 different Tesla's over 3 years for one vs your 3 week experience. Minimal scheduled maintenance and many fewer parts to go bad for another. And yes I'm on this board daily so I'm aware of people's posts - you apparently focus on the negative. You've obviously had a poor experience over your 3 weeks but normally once you get past the initial issues, if any, few problems arise needing service. As I said yes, we all know it can and should be better but I expect you'll be much happier with the ownership experience once these issues are behind you. If not I hear now is a great time to sell! Though from what I read I'm not sure where you'll turn for a better option...

I have recently had service in Tucson Az and can’t say enough good about them. A few text back and forth got my service in 1 day and a loner. They are as good as any service I have had over the years with the big boys. I guess just like everything it depends on your SC the Tucson crew is awesome! Maybe move out here and experience the good?

 

[PLazovich]

I have recently had service in Tucson Az and can’t say enough good about them. A few text back and forth got my service in 1 day and a loner. They are as good as any service I have had over the years with the big boys. I guess just like everything it depends on your SC the Tucson crew is awesome! Maybe move out here and experience the good?

I meant to say maybe the OP should move out here.

 

[a2t2]

it’s definitely reassuring to hear some ARE getting good results from their Tesla SC’s. I personally have not thus far but glad to hear this isn’t an across the board issue apparently.

Regarding the post about Toyota service did you ask them for a loaner ? How long ago was this ? In Atlanta dealers compete for business. If you say you need a free loaner they usually get you one. I can’t believe the service markets would be so different. I spent $48k on a Durango r/t and about $47k on a grand Cherokee overland at 2 Separate dealers here and both have always provided free loaners no questions asked. Did you have to also wait a month to get service ? Was it via a dicky text only app no phone # or person to talk to?

And regarding the fanboy attitude of a few on here, it doesn’t serve any purpose. If you point out Tesla short comings it will force them to become better, we all win with a better final product. Hell maybe we will even get cross traffic collision, bsm and apple car play too if we bitch about it. Or are None of those important in a $70k car either ?

 

[SO16]

it’s definitely reassuring to hear some ARE getting good results from their Tesla SC’s. I personally have not thus far but glad to hear this isn’t an across the board issue apparently.

Regarding the post about Toyota service did you ask them for a loaner ? How long ago was this ? In Atlanta dealers compete for business. If you say you need a free loaner they usually get you one. I can’t believe the service markets would be so different. I spent $48k on a Durango r/t and about $47k on a grand Cherokee overland at 2 Separate dealers here and both have always provided free loaners no questions asked. Did you have to also wait a month to get service ? Was it via a dicky text only app no phone # or person to talk to?

And regarding the fanboy attitude of a few on here, it doesn’t serve any purpose. If you point out Tesla short comings it will force them to become better, we all win with a better final product. Hell maybe we will even get cross traffic collision, bsm and apple car play too if we bitch about it. Or are None of those important in a $70k car either ?

This worked for me:

1. Schedule the service out a couple weeks if possible for the first time of the day.

2. Request a loaner in the initial ticket. And stress that you have a long drive and need a loaner.

 

[BreatheEasier]

I've been driving over 30 years, and have had well over 20 new cars, and tens of used cars over that time. By far, my experience with the SC in Sterling, VA and Mobile Service over the past 1+ years has been the best I've ever experienced. My delivery in Tysons Corner, VA was also excellent, and they had addressed all but the smallest issues pre-delivery, and the process was quick, easy and the car was super clean. The small issues were easily addressed post-delivery with mobile service. The SC in Sterling as been quick, thorough, respectful, on-time, and have done quality work. And I've had to get the windshield and full roof replaced, an alignment, wheel plugged, replacement tires (my choice), and some fit/finish items addressed post-delivery. Never any argument about whether things were "within spec", or not covered under warranty, and unlike my history with VW, Ford, GM, Subaru, BMW, I'm never being pressured for any additional work to be performed, nor about what is "outside of warranty" that urgently needs to be addressed. Other than swapping out the factory Contis at my own direction and cost, I've spent zero dollars in maintenance in 11K miles. Not having vehicle service department stress in my life has been a blessing for my family.

 

[a2t2]

I wonder if the service exp is different based on if you bought car new from Tesla or used ? Maybe they just dont like people buying used Teslas and then taking them in for service (which would be super dicky)? Anyway my 1st visit is tomorrow here in north ATL to get the stupid carbon wing which is glued on in a half-assed way replaced. This has taken a month to schedule and they certainly didnt offer to send a mobile tech out. All good though, I want to get a look at the SC here and chat a bit. I will let everyone know how this goes...

 

[davraker]

Not SC related exactly, but after someone backed into my Y, I have had to find a Tesla certified body shop. I live in Western Ma and the closest Tesla owned body shop is in RI. The closest non Tesla owned, but certified shop is an hour plus away in Hartford CT.

 

[mark95476]

BMW used to offer "free" oil changes/maintenance for a few years. Anyone that took them up on that offer was nearly guaranteed to have massive sludge build-up under the valve covers by the time that "free" period ended. You'd save a few hundred for oil changes in exchange for thousands of engine damage/maintenance.

It was a relief to leave all of that behind.

Exactly my experience with two Japanese brands. One of them offered 2 years of free oil changes! But they wanted tire rotations if you came in, even if it had only been 3k miles. And they somehow recommended a $130 alignment during the first year. And every other service visit came with >$100 in recommended services that they'd really pressure you on.

The other dealer wasn't nearly as bad about that, but they did try to claim that the manufacturer had not extended the warranty on my car, just some others from the same line. I had to show them the website to get the warranty work done. Then they misread a RELATED code and wanted to charge well over $1k for non-warranty work as part of the job.

Dealers have spent >100 years mastering the art of extracting the maximum amount of money from their customers. Tesla is still really new at that game and it shows in their financials for sales & service.

I'd love for them to fix their communication issues, though. It is fair to say Tesla is near last in that category right now and it is a frustrating problem.

 

[jsight]

BMW used to offer "free" oil changes/maintenance for a few years. Anyone that took them up on that offer was nearly guaranteed to have massive sludge build-up under the valve covers by the time that "free" period ended. You'd save a few hundred for oil changes in exchange for thousands of engine damage/maintenance.

It was a relief to leave all of that behind.

Oh, what were they doing wrong to cause that?