More anti-ev gibberish

[Dan5]

Just did a quite google search, you can get regular lead systems for 1/2 to 1/4 the cost and if you are expecting 2,500 cycles, well there's bigger concerns about grid stability. For 45,000 I'll buy an 85 kwhr Tesla battery, probably doesn't atke up as much space either.

If you look at Axion's 10-Q, they look like they are in really bad financial shape but when everyone losses their shirts with the stock, he may get in trouble with the SEC for pumping the stock or be sued by stockholders...one can only hope. He's fully aware the PbC failed the airport test via BMW, but yet insists on mentioning that they are still testing and that it's being used for trains while it's unsuitable for everywhere except Appalachia region (Axion concentrator on SA, 136, iindelco's BMW statement).

 

[TEG]

http://www.autogasforamerica.org/pdf/EV_fact_brief_11.25.pdf

 

[GSP]

http://www.autogasforamerica.org/pdf/EV_fact_brief_11.25.pdf

How pathetic.

I guess the authors will not be happy with anything but an obsolete piston engine burning Propane. Although that might be a good solution for bottom of the line econoboxes, I will not be caught dead in one.

GSP

 

[JRP3]

The dulcet tones of John Petersen, be careful, he may hypnotize you, put you into a coma, or drive you to suicide.

http://portal.sliderocket.com/APMLF/Final-John-Petersen-ELBC

 

[bonnie]

Someone needs to set it to music.

 

[dsm363]

Someone needs to set it to music.

Wow. Even his voice is boring.

Does anyone know how to use auto-tune?

 

[dpeilow]

No Future In Sight For Electric Cars, Says Toyota, German Auto Economics Professor

There is still no business model that can succeed on the market,” said the spokesman of Toyota Deutschland on Tuesday.

 

[vfx]

I dimmed the lights stoked the fire and in my footie pajamas, hugged a bowl of popcorn and settled in for JP's unique brand of creative storytelling. Alas there were none of John's flowery turns of phrase. None of the beauty and cleverness of his previous work. merely a rehash of tired old views though the trip through history in Edison's time had a certain nostalgic tone and was welcome.


All in all this audio book was a dissapointment. Perhaps J.K. Rowling's new book will delight.

 

[JRP3]

50 shades of PbC? I thought I caught a few of his favorite slug lines, but I may have been hallucinating from boredom.

 

[Krugerrand]

That made me giggle. He sounds like a parent reading their kid a bedtime story with all the exaggerated pausing, phrasing and syllable emphasis...and then, Gold-i-locks tried the lit-tle bed and it felt juuuuuusssssssst right.

 

[dmckinstry]

http://www.autogasforamerica.org/pdf/EV_fact_brief_11.25.pdf

Just scanned it, but it looks like the same old arguments, with outdated information on goal use. Personally, I'm just as happy to be in a state with a lot of hydro and wind energy.

 

[smorgasbord]

Petersen:
http://seekingalpha.com/article/300849-another-reality-check-for-ev-investors

And in other news, JP recently admitted he was wrong:

I was impressed by the pricing for the offering because I'd expected much worse – as in something in the $23 range.

I was wrong.

Mr. Musk is to be congratulated for pulling rabbit out of the hat, although it's clear that his financial brinksmanship cost him some goodwill with the DOE.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/880061-electric-vehicles-are-still-not-ready-for-prime-time#comment-10000331

If it wasn't for the "brinksmanship" quip, I'd have thought someone hacked into his SA account.

 

[rolosrevenge]

I dimmed the lights stoked the fire and in my footie pajamas, hugged a bowl of popcorn and settled in for JP's unique brand of creative storytelling. Alas there were none of John's flowery turns of phrase. None of the beauty and cleverness of his previous work. merely a rehash of tired old views though the trip through history in Edison's time had a certain nostalgic tone and was welcome.


All in all this audio book was a dissapointment. Perhaps J.K. Rowling's new book will delight.

lol. I only listened to the first 1.5 slides. The I'm a lawyer and CPA who wanted to be a scientist was just too ridiculous for me.

 

[dsm363]

lol. I only listened to the first 1.5 slides. The I'm a lawyer and CPA who wanted to be a scientist was just too ridiculous for me.

....who lives in a castle.....:smile:

 

[Doug_G]

Big Battery EVs Under Fire

Design News - Big Battery EVs Under Fire

"The current capabilities of electric vehicles do not meet society's needs, whether it may be the distance the cars can run, or the costs, or how it takes a long time to charge," said Takeshi Uchiyamada, Toyota's vice chairman, in the Reuters story.

Then there was the September report from the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO), which questioned the value of tax credits for electric vehicles. The report, titled "Effects of Federal Tax Credits for the Purchase of Electric Vehicles," took special aim at pure electric cars with big batteries.

"Assuming that everything else is equal, the larger an electric vehicle's battery capacity, the greater its cost disadvantage relative to conventional vehicles -- and the larger the tax credit needed to make it cost competitive," the report stated. "Conversely, electric vehicles with small batteries are more cost-competitive."Finally, there were the recent stories about the Nissan Leaf and Tesla Model S. Articles from greecarreports.com chronicled an ongoing battle between Nissan and some owners of its Leaf electric cars, as a result of those owners complaining that their batteries were suffering from premature range loss in hot climates. Meanwhile, a story in The Wall Street Journal suggested that Tesla Motors Inc., which makes electric cars with giant lithium-ion battery packs, warned investors that it is cutting its revenue targets for 2012 because it has fallen behind its production goals for the Model S electric car.

Some of this could be written off to the media's over-zealous, microscopic examination of the electric car business, of course. But not all. You can't blame the media when the sales figures of electric cars are so disturbingly low. The Leaf is a case in point: Nissan sold only 395 Leafs in June, followed by 685 in July, according to greencarreports.com.

Right... like production ramp has anything intrinsic to do with electric cars...

 

[JRP3]

Good news from Tesla means bad news from Petersen: Advanced Battery Technology Contains a Fatal Flaw - TheStreet

Lithium-ion and other advanced batteries, in comparison, contain low concentrations of several different metals. They're a recycling nightmare because metallurgical complexity is "low grade" by definition.

 

[Doug_G]

Curious. That almost sounds like a direct response to my recent posting in the Anti-Tesla Gibberish thread:

Hmm. Lead! http://geology.com/usgs/lead/

Known world reserves of lead - 80,000,000 metric tonnes
Production rate - 4,100,000 metric tonnes per year

This means that we have less than 20 years of lead reserves! The sky is falling!!!

Fortunately lead is easily recycled from automotive batteries. World consumption is actually 9,350,000 metric tonnes per year, which is sustainable despite mining less than half of that. Thank heavens for recycling!

Of course we could never do the same thing with cobalt, right JP?

 

[bonnie]

Oh, I'm sure he's here reading the posts. But I doubt he'll ever engage. That would require leaving his pulpit and actually having a conversation.

 

[Doug_G]

Well I'm not convinced by his argument; after all, a wide variety of economically viable methods are used to extract materials, such as chemical separation techniques. The fact that we even have pure materials to work with in the first place demonstrates this.

He also ignores the fact that, by the published numbers, we're far closer to running out of known reserves of lead than cobalt - even with recycling. And also that lithium batteries can be made without large quantities of cobalt.

 

[vfx]

JP

...while the claimed environmental advantages of lithium-ion and other advanced batteries are entirely illusory because those quarter-ton batteries cannot be efficiently recycled into useful metals and will almost certainly present massive disposal problems in years to come.

JP again,

Every one of those companies charges over $1 a pound to recycle batteries because the process is not cost-effective and their costs exceed the value of the metals recovered by a wide margin.

So it can't be done.

Or it's too expensive.

Which is it?