myEV by MyCarma: electric vehicle logger & app

[iconoclast]

Translation: We will restrict access to advanced features based on a silly/forced social experiment.

I'm not saying people won't like the idea, surely there's people out there who like like *anything* if they want to participate. But you're assuming *everyone* wants to participate. And you know what they say when you assume things.

But clearly based on your previous responses, you're pretty married/seduced to this team idea, so, as I said before, until there's some alternative to gain access to ALL the features without playing the game, I'm not buying. Which is unfortunate, because this is a device I'd love to have, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I'd be willing to bet that within a few weeks of these getting into the hands of engineers, someone will figure out how to jailbreak the thing and bypass the marketing brain damage.

I'll be buying one, gambling on the likelihood that even if the developer never gets the clue there's a good chance that the customers will be able to fix it in spite of them.

 

[jvonbokel]

What if the features were separated by "social-ness", so to speak. All features specific to the individual user, could be available from the start, or unlockable based on relatively easy solo milestones. The group milestones could still be used to unlock the more social features, such as comparing results with other local users.

For example:

Solo (Level 1?)
Trip Summary: Energy Consumption
Trip Summary: Starting/Ending SOC
Historical: EV Miles
Historical: Avg Consumption
Historical: Battery Health
Historical: Consumption Histogram (no badges)
Trip Summary: Aux Load Use
Historical: Charging Time-of-Day Histogram
Historical: Min/Max Daily Range
Historical: Range vs Ambient Temp
Historical: Energy Consumption by Date

Team/Social (various levels?)
Trip Summary: Lifetime Trip Rank
Trip Summary: Team Recent Trip Rank
Trip Summary: Nearby Comparable Rank
Historical: Team Rank
Historical: Nearby Comparable Rank
Historical: Consumption Histogram (w/badges)
Historical: Recent Range in Nearby Comparables

I'd suggest generally the trip data getting unlocked first, with historical data unlocking later. For the solo, you could maybe still have the historical data unlock, but it could be based on time (1 month) or a low number of miles (1-5k). The historical data is not particularly useful until you get a larger data set anyway. That way you're not "crippling" it at all, just preventing the user from looking at potentially skewed data, and maintaining the fun/social aspect for others.

 

[HankLloydRight]

No games or levels.. it's all or nothing, folks.

Like I said before, this isn't a video game.

It's a pretty simple concept -- give the paying customers what they want. Keyword: PAYING.

 

[mike_j]

I don't mind the social aspect.

There seems to be something about delayed gratification. You buy it, and get new bells and whistles over time - it's like spreading out the enjoyment. Much like Tesla's software upgrades. Some would argue the features should have been there on day 1.

I guess it's like every other product out there. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, then choose not to buy it.

Congrats to EvCarma on getting to 93% funded. Eight days left for people to get on board.

 

[jvonbokel]

it's all or nothing, folks.

It sounds like you may have to create your own indigogo campaign for your ideal solution.

I've found the organizers (such as Sunny) to be very open to suggestion, but dictating demands is not likely to accomplish much.

 

[strochaniak]

What if the features were separated by "social-ness", so to speak. All features specific to the individual user, could be available from the start, or unlockable based on relatively easy solo milestones. The group milestones could still be used to unlock the more social features, such as comparing results with other local users.

For example:

Solo (Level 1?)
Trip Summary: Energy Consumption
Trip Summary: Starting/Ending SOC
Historical: EV Miles
Historical: Avg Consumption
Historical: Battery Health
Historical: Consumption Histogram (no badges)
Trip Summary: Aux Load Use
Historical: Charging Time-of-Day Histogram
Historical: Min/Max Daily Range
Historical: Range vs Ambient Temp
Historical: Energy Consumption by Date

Team/Social (various levels?)
Trip Summary: Lifetime Trip Rank
Trip Summary: Team Recent Trip Rank
Trip Summary: Nearby Comparable Rank
Historical: Team Rank
Historical: Nearby Comparable Rank
Historical: Consumption Histogram (w/badges)
Historical: Recent Range in Nearby Comparables

I'd suggest generally the trip data getting unlocked first, with historical data unlocking later. For the solo, you could maybe still have the historical data unlock, but it could be based on time (1 month) or a low number of miles (1-5k). The historical data is not particularly useful until you get a larger data set anyway. That way you're not "crippling" it at all, just preventing the user from looking at potentially skewed data, and maintaining the fun/social aspect for others.

Thanks John, I think this does a better job communicating what I've been trying to get across. The team component that we have in mind is intended to ENHANCE the experience, not cripple it. By participating on a team, you would gain access to various team-based features, such as team and trip ranks (and whatever else we could come up with). We don't want to restrict an individual of the functionality that's important to them just because they don't have an interest in the social component.

Also, as I've mentioned, we are not married to one thing or another in any aspect. We have a general idea of where we want to end up; a logger that works across all electric vehicles, that provides valuable & actionable information to EV owners, enabling them to share, compare, and learn from each other. How we get there will be heavily driven by backer and customer feedback. If we get feedback that something provides little value and doesn't do much other than anger paying customers, then we'll scrap it in a heartbeat. We're not afraid to kill bad ideas before they hatch.. we're just trying to create the best experience we can.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I don't think I'm dictating demands. But as a business owner myself, I'm in business to make money. As I'm sure EVCarma is too.

If some of my potential customers didn't like how I set things up, I'd surely find a way to turn them into paying customers.

I can only conclude EVCarma doesn't have that objective, or if they do, they haven't explained how this team thing relates to making money, since all I can see is that it's actually turning some people away from being paying customers. And at best, I doubt the existence of the teams is the tipping point for other people who think it's a good idea. So at best, the team thing isn't gaining any customers they wouldn't have anyway, and at worst, it's turning people off and they're losing customers/money. That's not how I would run any business. As I asked yesterday, is there *any* business case or justification for withholding features in exchange for team achievements? If there are, it sure would be good to know what they are, so the potential customers know exactly what they're getting into, and why. But without the business case, it's just a dumb idea that sounded good on a white board one day.

p.s. I'm done ranting about this issue.

 

[ZBB]

I'm an early contributor to this project (one of the first 10-15)...

Hank makes a really good point. Functionality should not be crippled. Social features shouldn't be mandatory to get data out of a data logger. The Indiegogo page makes it appear that functionality is unlocked the more you participate in the social part. That's what Hank is complaining about.

jvonbokel's post is a much better way of looking at this than the image on the indiegogo page (below). All the data logging on an individual's car should be available immediately. If someone wants to join in on the social aspects, then they could get access to how an individuals data compare with other groups or how they rank against other EVs.

I'd suggest updating the social info on the page to better reflect the types of activity you can track with social. Perhaps not call it "unlock" -- but a way to enhance the app by participating in the social stuff. You can get all the individual logging you want without joining social, or join social and see how you rank... But the current image makes this look like crippleware...

 

[strochaniak]

I don't think I'm dictating demands. But as a business owner myself, I'm in business to make money. As I'm sure EVCarma is too.

If some of my potential customers didn't like how I set things up, I'd surely find a way to turn them into paying customers.

I can only conclude EVCarma doesn't have that objective, or if they do, they haven't explained how this team thing relates to making money, since all I can see is that it's actually turning some people away from being paying customers. And at best, I doubt the existence of the teams is the tipping point for other people who think it's a good idea. So at best, the team thing isn't gaining any customers they wouldn't have anyway, and at worst, it's turning people off and they're losing customers/money. That's not how I would run any business. As I asked yesterday, is there *any* business case or justification for withholding features in exchange for team achievements? If there are, it sure would be good to know what they are, so the potential customers know exactly what they're getting into, and why. But without the business case, it's just a dumb idea that sounded good on a white board one day.

The teams component hasn't been brought up very often (was never meant to be), so I agree it's not a tipping point for people to join, but I also don't believe it's been turning people off either (other than your case). We envision teams being a feature in itself, rather than a mechanism to withhold other features. We haven't published much information about exactly how it will work, because like I said we'll be basing it heavily off backer feedback, so I can understand why it might be interpreted in a number of ways. But, IF it's done right, I believe the social component can drive a more engaging user experience.. we just need to work hard to get it right.

p.s. I'm done ranting about this issue.

I consider it hard feedback more than I do ranting. You've called out an issue that obviously wasn't being communicated effectively on our end

I'm an early contributor to this project (one of the first 10-15)...

Hank makes a really good point. Functionality should not be crippled. Social features shouldn't be mandatory to get data out of a data logger. The Indiegogo page makes it appear that functionality is unlocked the more you participate in the social part. That's what Hank is complaining about.

jvonbokel's post is a much better way of looking at this than the image on the indiegogo page (below). All the data logging on an individual's car should be available immediately. If someone wants to join in on the social aspects, then they could get access to how an individuals data compare with other groups or how they rank against other EVs.

I'd suggest updating the social info on the page to better reflect the types of activity you can track with social. Perhaps not call it "unlock" -- but a way to enhance the app by participating in the social stuff. You can get all the individual logging you want without joining social, or join social and see how you rank... But the current image makes this look like crippleware...

View attachment 53273

I agree.. I definitely overlooked this. I'm going to tweak it a bit today, thanks for pointing it out!

 

[mstevens]

Hi everyone, as Sunny mentioned, we added the level system as we thought it would add enjoyment to using the system. Also as Sunny mentioned though, it's not locked in stone. If a lot of people don't like it, we'll ship without it.

I'm happy to go into detail on why I proposed we add it - the short answer is that I tried to pull two things that I like from my experiences with Fantasy Sports leagues and Android games.

If you want the full details, or have other feedback/comments/suggestions please let me know! I'll be the follicle-challenges guy in the bright orange MyCarma shirt at TMC Connect tomorrow.

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...and by follicle-challenges guy, I meant follicly-challenged. Or bald.

 

[HankLloydRight]

I won't be at TMC Connect, so I have one comment, one question:

1. This hardware product isn't a game, it's a device. It might have some "social" capabilities, but it's not like a game that has challenges and achievements "built-in" that makes the game more challenging.
2. Why would restricting basic features from paying customers make it more "enjoyable"?

 

[scottf200]

Some like challenges.

 

[mike_j]

Anyone know where this is at? Seems to be taking a while to come to fruition.

...While the Indiegogo campaign has reached its finale, it is really just the end of the beginning for us. We’ll be putting in a lot of work over the next few months leading up to our October ship date, but we couldn’t be any more excited to get a myEV device in your hands....

 

[jvonbokel]

Anyone know where this is at? Seems to be taking a while to come to fruition.

Aug 22nd I got an e-mail saying the loggers were in production, with a timeframe of 6 weeks to completion.

Sept 25th, they said final assembly within a couple weeks, with hopes of beginning shipping at the end of October.

I suspect another e-mail update will come soon with more concrete info.

 

[jvonbokel]

Aug 22nd I got an e-mail saying the loggers were in production, with a timeframe of 6 weeks to completion.

Sept 25th, they said final assembly within a couple weeks, with hopes of beginning shipping at the end of October.

Oct 29th update says they ran into some bluetooth connectivity issues, but they believe they're mostly solved, and loggers should ship soon. They also included the first product photo.

 

[commasign]

MyCarma myEV Data Logger for Model S Discussion Thread

Lets start a discussion thread for MyCarma myEV data logger (Model S version). For those that don't know about this, it was an Indiegogo campaign from FleetCarma (a company that specializes in data logging).

myEV - electric vehicle logger app | MyCarma
myEV by MyCarma: electric vehicle logger app | Indiegogo

I got mine about 2 weeks ago. Install was a little tricky, but the Model S specific instructions were helpful (myEV Start Guide | MyCarma then click "Have a Model S?"). Basically, it says "The Tesla proprietary cable along the back wall (as it was initially), the harness connector in the back left pocket, and the harness cable curving around to the front wall, with the logger ending up on the left side." The only suggestion I have is that the last part is more like the logger ending up in the middle to right side of the panel rather than the left side.

There was some incompatibility with the P85D initially but the folks at MyCarma were very helpful and provided several quick software updates and now it works fine.

I have the iOS version. Bluetooth Low Energy works great and can transfer files from halfway across the house.

Some screenshots:

 

[ChadS]

I've got one too. I supported it so many months ago I forgot what it was supposed to do. Now that I have it...well, I'm a little disappointed. It is nice that it shows how much energy went to driving vs how much went to accessories. But I'm not sure what else I'll really use it for. Supposedly they will support the Roadster soon; I would like to try it there and see if it gets more info. (Different cars put out different info on the canbus, but I'm not sure if the app can do more than it's doing for the Model S).

I do like the easy way it connects to your cell phone and lets you control it from there. I also suppose if you keep the data you can compare data for similar trips under different weather conditions (or driving different speeds) and it might be a little easier to compare using this rather than writing down wh/mi for each trip. Although I don't see a way to name trips, so maybe not.

 

[apacheguy]

This is great. Any idea how they discovered the APIs for battery health and auxiliary power draw? AFAIK, these have never been discussed here on the forums.

 

[commasign]

This is great. Any idea how they discovered the APIs for battery health and auxiliary power draw? AFAIK, these have never been discussed here on the forums.

They said in order to calculate the battery health, you need to have at least 15 trips where SOC changed at least 10%.

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I've got one too. I supported it so many months ago I forgot what it was supposed to do. Now that I have it...well, I'm a little disappointed. It is nice that it shows how much energy went to driving vs how much went to accessories. But I'm not sure what else I'll really use it for. Supposedly they will support the Roadster soon; I would like to try it there and see if it gets more info. (Different cars put out different info on the canbus, but I'm not sure if the app can do more than it's doing for the Model S).

Yeah, I think the logger and app are perfect for those that obsess over Wh/mile, etc., but short of that, it doesn't really "do" much right now. I was told the next version of the app will allow comparison of data with other EVs, so that might be something interesting to look at.

 

[EVenthusiast]

I've had mine since the first batch (LEAF, no Tesla, yet), and the whole team has been amazing about listening to user suggestions. Data junkies will love this app, and there is supposed to be a social aspect to it as well (they include a nice looking QR sticker, but links aren't active yet), making it easy to contact the owner of the vehicle.

Not sure if I would buy this again, but it has been an interesting, and positive experience. These guys also know what they are doing as they have been doing fleet loggers for long time.