I can try that. If they are looking at “fleet” data, they should be able to see the crazy manual steering correction and disengagement of AP when I have to yank the car into the lane it should be in. I mostly use bug report for incorrect speed limits.
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Navigate on Autopilot is Useless (2018.42.3)
- Thread starter wk057
- Start date
I can try that. If they are looking at “fleet” data, they should be able to see the crazy manual steering correction and disengagement of AP when I have to yank the car into the lane it should be in. I mostly use bug report for incorrect speed limits.
Another thing, the speed based lane changes need to be as quick as the auto lane changes are. The car will put the blinker on to pass slow moving traffic, but it waits far too long to actually over take the slower traffic. I have to cancel it half the time because cars up coming up in the passing lane are moving faster, I would actually slow them down if they even let me in. It needs to be quicker.
I’d agree with it being about 80% useful to me as well. Some of these things seem easy enough to correct, but I’m not a coder, so my input is invalid. You’d think with how “powerful” the HW3 box is, you’d start seeing some big leaps forward. Not complaining, I’m happy with FSD as it stands now.
I’d agree with it being about 80% useful to me as well. Some of these things seem easy enough to correct, but I’m not a coder, so my input is invalid. You’d think with how “powerful” the HW3 box is, you’d start seeing some big leaps forward. Not complaining, I’m happy with FSD as it stands now.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Here's a really good analysis of NOA and AP:
If you are tempted to think that NOA must be terrible based on this video, remember that the video is just 15 mn out of a 2 hr drive and is only showing you the edge cases that NOA either handled well or did not handle well.
He also shows some cases with stop signs and traffic lights in his neighborhood that AP can't handle well yet.
I think this brings up two important points:
1) When people say that NOA is "useless", they are probably talking about edge cases that NOA does not handle well or does not handle the way they want. And if those edge cases happen a lot where they drive, then it can indeed make NOA less useful to them. I think this also explains why some people think NOA is amazing while others can say NOA is terrible. It all depends on what kind of edge cases and how many edge cases you typically encounter on your drive.
2) This video really illustrates the "long tail of 9's" as they say. You can have a "self-driving" system that works great almost all the time, but there will be a seemingly never ending series of edge cases that will keep popping up. Solving all those edge cases that might be rare, but potentially dangerous, will take time.
If you are tempted to think that NOA must be terrible based on this video, remember that the video is just 15 mn out of a 2 hr drive and is only showing you the edge cases that NOA either handled well or did not handle well.
He also shows some cases with stop signs and traffic lights in his neighborhood that AP can't handle well yet.
I think this brings up two important points:
1) When people say that NOA is "useless", they are probably talking about edge cases that NOA does not handle well or does not handle the way they want. And if those edge cases happen a lot where they drive, then it can indeed make NOA less useful to them. I think this also explains why some people think NOA is amazing while others can say NOA is terrible. It all depends on what kind of edge cases and how many edge cases you typically encounter on your drive.
2) This video really illustrates the "long tail of 9's" as they say. You can have a "self-driving" system that works great almost all the time, but there will be a seemingly never ending series of edge cases that will keep popping up. Solving all those edge cases that might be rare, but potentially dangerous, will take time.
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I understand the FSD part of it is rather useless, but AP is fantastic. I have never not used AP even once in the highway, and have used AP more than 80% on the backroads, even on short 2 mile trips. It is that good. Will not buy a car that does not have AP.
Ah, but you're not looking at your full purchase of FSD . . . it's hardly done yet.
Sure, it's not where it needs to be. We ALL know this.
What you've done is purchased something worth some six-figures--in a few years--for $6,000 now. It's getting better with each OTA update, and one day soon, perhaps as early as next year, it will be Full Self Driving.
Hang in there.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
I did another little test with NOA near my house today on 2020.24.6.9. Drove about 40 miles. The car still waited too long to merge from an on ramp unto the highway. The car waited until I was at the very end of the exit lane to veer unto the highway. And there were no cars around at all, so it's not like it was waiting for a space to merge. Clearly, if there had been traffic, I don't think NOA would have been able to make the merge in time. Once on the highway, when I was just cruising along on a straight highway, NOA was flawless. NOA also handled the auto lane changes perfectly. Traffic was light so the lane changes were easy though. NOA took the exit a bit fast but still really well. Another exit, it took the exit fine but still alerted me to make a lane change back onto the highway when I was already in the exit lane. Weird. It did not try to do the lane change thankfully since there is a concrete barrier on the left side but still indicated an upcoming lane change on the screen.
Conclusion: the cruising part on the highway and auto lane changes seem to be really solid but on ramps and off ramps still need some work.
Conclusion: the cruising part on the highway and auto lane changes seem to be really solid but on ramps and off ramps still need some work.
mikes_fsd
Banned
I have a feeling that we will not see improvements to the existing Autopilot features until the new software stack is rolled out (4D).
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
They can probably apply their old test suite with data to the new software, and avoid to re-introduce old issues. Atleast issues that they have test-cases for.
Maybe the new software will be an immediate improvement, but Tesla has a long history of rolling out really awful software then slowly improving it over the next year or so.
Remember the End of Range Anxiety update? I recall it scheduling a trip leg that would have taken over 3 hours,due to backtracking for charging, that I simply drove straight through without charging in less than 2 hours. That wasn't fixed for months.
Remember the End of Range Anxiety update? I recall it scheduling a trip leg that would have taken over 3 hours,due to backtracking for charging, that I simply drove straight through without charging in less than 2 hours. That wasn't fixed for months.
People keep telling me that autopilot (not FSD) is no big thing compared to most other new cars' cruise control. Is this really true? What does AP do that adapter cruise control can't?
FSD is still not useful, I have had way too many problems and close calls to call it a big advantage over anything at all.
FSD is still not useful, I have had way too many problems and close calls to call it a big advantage over anything at all.
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Standard AP just adds lane keeping. So the car steers itself to stay in the center of the lane. That's it. Everything else requires you buy FSD.
Yes, but from what I've been told is that other manufacturers' cars have an "adaptive" cruise control that does lane keeping hands free just like autopilot. Thus making autopilot "not a big deal"
diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
Your use of terms is confusing. Adaptive Cruise Control is what Tesla calls Traffic Aware Cruise Control. It just modulates the speed of the car, it does not do any lane keeping. Lane Keeping is a separate feature from Adaptive Cruise Control.
You might be referring to GM's SuperCruise which offers hands-free Adaptive Cruise Control AND Lane Keeping. The car will automatically steer to stay centered in the lane and also does adaptive cruise control. It is hands-free thanks to a driver facing camera which checks to make sure the driver has their eyes on the road. However, it is limited to highway use only.
More and more companies are offering or will offer soon hands-free adaptive cruise control with lane keeping. So in that respect, yes, standard AP is not as special anymore. Of course, Tesla is offering the "FSD" package which does offer quite a bit more than what any other automaker is offering right now.
VW, BMW, Mercedes (which also has auto lane change) all have lane keeping assist, which is what AP is.
But since they don't have OTA, they HAVE to make solid software that works from day 1. OTA is nice, but it's a double edge sword since it's "ship now, fix later" mentality, which has resulted in a huge backlog and worsening of MCU 1 cars.
But since they don't have OTA, they HAVE to make solid software that works from day 1. OTA is nice, but it's a double edge sword since it's "ship now, fix later" mentality, which has resulted in a huge backlog and worsening of MCU 1 cars.
Adaptive cruise control - Wikipedia
Guide to Adaptive Cruise Control
"
Which Brands Do ACC Best?
There wasn’t significant differentiation among brands for adaptive cruise control. Satisfaction was high across the board, averaging 86 percent satisfied.
Survey respondents did share their experiences:
One Dodge driver wrote, “The adaptive cruise control system is mostly good and does an admirable job of maintaining proper distance from the vehicle in front of me, with an occasional misfire sensing a vehicle in another lane.”
“I have two 2015 Ford Taurus’—one has adaptive cruise and one just has cruise. The one with the adaptive cruise is great. It makes sure that you do not run into the rear of a vehicle by slowing you down and sounding a beep to let you know that it is time for you to apply the brakes,” wrote a Ford owner.
A Lexus owner shared, “The system works exactly as designed and maintains a very exact speed. It is very easy to operate.”
“The Subaru has an adaptive cruise control system that I wish I had on every car I owned. Its ability to adjust speed according to the cars in front of you makes stop-and-go traffic a much more pleasant experience. I use it in places I never would with a standard cruise control,” said a Subaru owner.
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diplomat33
Average guy who loves autonomous vehicles
The reason I called your terms confusing is because you said that adaptive cruise control also does lane keeping which is false. Adaptive cruise control only modulates speed. It does not do lane keeping. Lane keeping is a separate feature.
GlmnAlyAirCar
Active Member
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