NEMA 14-50 Plug Meltdown / Near Fire

[eprosenx]

I have the first GEN Tesla charger,when I had it professionally wired in, View attachment 417882 they put in a 60 amp breaker. Is that a good one to have, or should I reduce it?

Whoever did that install did it wrong then. :-(

Presumably that is a NEMA 14-50 and that should never ever ever be on greater than a 50a circuit. Yes, it needs to be changed out.

Also btw, I would probably not coil that cable so tightly on the wall. It is not super fantastic for the cord.

 

[Lmurph2]

I'm new to all of this, if I have the electrician install a Tesla/Juice box type charging unit will I avoid these issues?

 

[dbldwn02]

I'm new to all of this, if I have the electrician install a Tesla/Juice box type charging unit will I avoid these issues?

No, you will not. You or a second set of qualified eyes need to go back and check the work. The county inspector won't do it and the electrician is trying to finish as many jobs as possible. I take pictures and videos every time an outlet fails in my house or at work. All of these outlets were installed by a licensed electrician and were "inspected" by the county. This is why I hate when people say you should never do electrical yourself. I myself have installed 100's of outlets at work and home and not a single one has failed due to installation error but I don't rush either. I take my time and make sure everything is tight. I also don't cut corners (like running a 60a circuit on 10AWG wire) It doesn't matter to me if a licensed guy does it or not, if I don't know you I don't trust you in my house. So I always check the work.

The attached pics and the video are shots I've taken myself. All of these issues were caused by loose connections or straight forgetting to tighten a neutral or a hot wire. I chalked the first one up to "crap happens" but when a toaster melted the next one, I went and checked every outlet in the house. 20% or more of them were loose!!!

My 60a 240v breaker also melted recently. Car never pulled over 40amps. So I cut open the breaker with a band saw and found that the spring broke on the contact. This allowed for the breaker to close but the contact wasn't tight at all. Heat built up...thermal runaway...fire. Again, even if a licensed electrician put it in, even if an inspector came out, it still would have melted.

 

[rich0]

When I was charging off the portable charger until I got the wall charger installed I did check a few junction boxes along the wiring path with an IR thermometer for just this reason. I also try to look at the voltage indicated in the car every once in a while - a voltage drop would be a potential sign of a poor connection.

I had Tesla do the wall charger install and it looks like they had only one junction along the entire route (before going through a trench). Seemed like they were using fairly substantial devices to splice the connections and the inspector didn't complain (though he seemed to be upset that they only buried it to code in metal conduit).

The car pulls a lot more current for a lot more duty cycle than a lot of stuff that normally gets run over these sorts of circuits so it is important that whoever does the install does it properly.

 

[rich0]

My 60a 240v breaker also melted recently. Car never pulled over 40amps. So I cut open the breaker with a band saw and found that the spring broke on the contact. This allowed for the breaker to close but the contact wasn't tight at all. Heat built up...thermal runaway...fire. Again, even if a licensed electrician put it in, even if an inspector came out, it still would have melted.

I'm no electrician, but that sounds like a defect in the breaker itself. Aren't those things UL listed and all that? I guess that doesn't mean they're infallible, but I'd think that a lot of people would be interested in something like that...

 

[Waussie2]

My 14-50 installed 2 years ago suffered the same last week. I replaced it myself and torqued it with the biggest Phillips screwdriver I had and reduced the charge current on the Tesla to 30 Amps. I will be watching it.

 

[ArtLightstone]

First: Let me say I'm really glad that everyone is okay.

Second: This story alone should be enough to convince anyone to spend the extra dollars to hire a qualified electrician to instal a proper EV charger. Why save hundreds of dollars on something that is attached to your house and that plugs into your really expensive car? It just doesn't make sense to risk such valuable assets, as well as the lives of your family, for something that should cost around $1,000.00.

Third: This story may just save some lives... so thanks for sharing.

 

[dbldwn02]

I'm no electrician, but that sounds like a defect in the breaker itself. Aren't those things UL listed and all that? I guess that doesn't mean they're infallible, but I'd think that a lot of people would be interested in something like that...

Yup, it was 100% a manufacturer defect. I could file a complaint with UL but that won't go anywhere unless there is a trend of this happening. And here is the warranty for GE breakers

• The warranty is one (1) year from first use or eighteen (18) months from delivery, whichever occurs first

Mine was 20 months old at failure. Good to know they might burn your house down after the warranty is up. I'll get pictures of this breaker when I get back to home from my trip. It's worth a laugh!

The moral of the story here is, high amperage stuff, specifically our cars, wear out components much faster than anything else in your house. Frequent checks at connection points are the only thing that might prevent your house from going up in smoke! Also make sure to check that none of the components in the electrical chain are getting hot to the point where you can't hold your hand on it. This is something joe blow homeowner can and should do without worry. Just make sure the breaker is off before you do.

 

[dbldwn02]

Second: This story alone should be enough to convince anyone to spend the extra dollars to hire a qualified electrician to instal a proper EV charger. Why save hundreds of dollars on something that is attached to your house and that plugs into your really expensive car? It just doesn't make sense to risk such valuable assets, as well as the lives of your family, for something that should cost around $1,000.00.

I like your optimism that licensed electricians will do a good job but that just isn't the case. Please read my post from a little bit up this page. 3 outlets in my house have melted all because an electrician failed to tighten a terminal or the circuit breaker had a defect. Had I installed or checked all the outlets in my house prior to moving in I wouldn't have that problem. P.S. House was only 2 years old when outlets started failing.

I saved $500 doing my install myself and I trust my work more than a stranger coming to do it. Electrical isn't for everyone so I understand that some people should not do it. But if you're going to spend the money, then spend more money to have a second electrician come look at the work. It's the safe way of doing it.

 

[ArtLightstone]

I like your optimism that licensed electricians will do a good job but that just isn't the case. Please read my post from a little bit up this page. 3 outlets in my house have melted all because an electrician failed to tighten a terminal or the circuit breaker had a defect. Had I installed or checked all the outlets in my house prior to moving in I wouldn't have that problem. P.S. House was only 2 years old when outlets started failing.

I hear you. You definitely don't want to hire an electrician off Kijiji. You want a reputable pro... preferably one that you've hired before.

In my case, our electrician has done work for us spanning across a decade: he did our entire basement, under-cabinet lights and light switch in the kitchen, wired in a new laundry set in the laundry room, wired in new lights and light switch in my workshop, upgraded our entire electrical panel in preparation for our EV, and then, most recently, he did our EV charger. We definitely trust our guy.

If you don't have a regular electrician, then ask around until you find someone who has an electrician that they know and trust... and then use that guy (or gal).

 

[Tezla1]

I had a NEMA 14-50 installed and I got it done by an electrician AND had him get a permit from local county for the outlet.

Here’s 2 key points to help avoid a potential disaster:

1. As others have pointed out, Hire a licensed/insured electrician when installing NEMA 14-50. Don’t do it yourself, even if u know how to. Reason for this is, they can be held liable if something goes wrong + they’re experts.

2. this is JUST as important as 1, get a permit from your local county, if they require it , call and ask.

I had one installed with a permit by electrician and an inspection from my local county inspector. On inspection, he found a small issue - the electrician came back to fix and after, the inspection was re done and approved.


Remember, if there is a fire and you need home owners insurance to pay a claim for damages - the first thing they will Iook at is WHO did the work and was the work approved by local municipality

 

[dbldwn02]

I hear you. You definitely don't want to hire an electrician off Kijiji. You want a reputable pro... preferably one that you've hired before.

In my case, our electrician has done work for us spanning across a decade: he did our entire basement, under-cabinet lights and light switch in the kitchen, wired in a new laundry set in the laundry room, wired in new lights and light switch in my workshop, upgraded our entire electrical panel in preparation for our EV, and then, most recently, he did our EV charger. We definitely trust our guy.

If you don't have a regular electrician, then ask around until you find someone who has an electrician that they know and trust... and then use that guy (or gal).

Agree! Even a guy with 5 stars in Google Reviews is going to send an apprentice to do the job, and no doubt it will work, but for how long???

 

[lolder]

UL certification is suspect. Years ago I purchased an aftermarket 120 v window air conditioner timer. The three pronged plug plugged into the wall and the three prong AC plug plugged into the back of that plug. A cable went from the plug/socket to the timer. When working on the AC later with the timer switch switched off, I found 120 v still in the AC to ground. I examined the timer wiring and found it interrupted the white ( return ) wire, not the hot black wire. I complained to the well known manufacturer and they said it was correct. I complained to UL and they said it was correct. I'm an EE and it very well was not safe/correct. Professional installation and inspection will NOT insure these installations will hold up. Testimony to this effect is in several prior posts. The 14-50 outlet should not be warm even though all the rest of the components may be. If it is, call the electrician back or turn off the breaker and even pry it out of the push on end if you must, open the outlet and check and tighten the connections.

 

[dbldwn02]

Here’s 2 key points to help avoid a potential disaster:

1. As others have pointed out, Hire a licensed/insured electrician when installing NEMA 14-50. Don’t do it yourself, even if u know how to. Reason for this is, they can be held liable if something goes wrong + they’re experts.

2. this is JUST as important as 1, get a permit from your local county, if they require it , call and ask.

Hard pass for me on this one man. Neither of these ensures your house will not burn down. Yes, you can hold someone responsible when it does, but if you and your family are dead, why does it matter?!

Professional installation and inspection will NOT insure these installations will hold up. Testimony to this effect is in several prior posts.

This! 100% agree!

 

[Merc3]

I have read all these post and 1 CRITICAL point is missing. Any circuit can only support a max of 75% of rated capacity. This means that your dedicated 50 Amp circuit should not be loaded with more than 37.5 amps. The Car must be set to draw no more than that. I have a 30 amp circuit so my Model 3 is set to draw 22 amps. If I set the Car to draw 30 amps then overheating of wires will occur. This fact is not clearly elaborated on anywhere.

 

[lolder]

The Model 3 UMC-2 knows what type of outlet you're plugged into and sets the current automatically to 80% of the 80% rating of the 14-50 outlet. 50 X .8=40 X .8=32. You can't set it higher. You can set it lower. If the UMC-2 senses a high temperature, it will ramp down current automatically and may display one red bar at the top.

 

[Tezla1]

Hard pass for me on this one man. Neither of these ensures your house will not burn down. Yes, you can hold someone responsible when it does, but if you and your family are dead, why does it matter?!

Wearing a seat belt does not ensure you will survive an accident.

Should you still wear one, Does it matter?


The logic behind my statements above is that you should do everything you can in your power to maintain safety.

Whether or not the “house will burn down anyway” is irrelevant to the point I’m making.

 

[ddrmr]

Btw, perhaps some key takeaways of the story here for others:

The cheap Leviton receptacles that just use screw terminals rather than clamping style terminals have seen a lot of failures. There is a thread here where someone purchased all the different manufacturer versions they could find and compared them. Leviton was by FAR the worst.

Proper torque on the terminals is critical.

The old UMC Gen 1 is more commonly associated with these meltdowns. In part because it draws a full 40 amps, while the new UMC draws 32 amps max.

The UMC Gen 2 probably would not have let it get this far as it has thermal sensors in the plug head that should have detected this heat buildup.

This is a good example of why extension cords or 3rd party adapters are bad. The more connection points the more likely for something like this to happen. Especially ones that don’t have effective thermal monitoring.

It feels like this is worth reporting to the local Fire Marshall and to the receptacle manufacturer. I kind of feel like with the prevalence of EV’s now that Leviton should take their receptacle off the market as it is so vastly inferior to the other brands solutions. It obviously has been fine for intermittent use ranges and RV’s forever, but times are changing...

Proper torque is: get it as tight as you can...then another half turn!

 

[dbldwn02]

I have read all these post and 1 CRITICAL point is missing. Any circuit can only support a max of 75% of rated capacity. This means that your dedicated 50 Amp circuit should not be loaded with more than 37.5 amps. The Car must be set to draw no more than that. I have a 30 amp circuit so my Model 3 is set to draw 22 amps. If I set the Car to draw 30 amps then overheating of wires will occur. This fact is not clearly elaborated on anywhere.

I mostly agree with you but I believe 80% is the standard. 40amps on a 50amp circuit for more than 3 hours is acceptable.

To be 100% safe you should just buy the correct adapter for your amperage. This ensures your car will never pull over the rated amps of the outlet. Example would be, Tesla upgrades software GUI for charging and it resets your "preferred charge rate" back to max. If you have the $50 adapter, it won't go past 24amps on your 30amp circuit.

 

[dbldwn02]

Wearing a seat belt does not ensure you will survive an accident
Should you still wear one, Does it matter?
The logic behind my statements above is that you should do everything you can in your power to maintain safety.
Whether or not the “house will burn down anyway” is irrelevant to the point I’m making.

"Your point" is giving people a false sense of security. Having a licensed electrician doesn't make you safe. Period...dot. My pictures above are proof of that.
Your comparison to seat-belts is not applicable at all to this.